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The Last of Us Part 2

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Oh and the bit with the mirror. If you’ve seen it you know what I’m talking about. It’s really really impressive from a technical standpoint. 

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7 hours ago, Harrisown said:

Oh and the bit with the mirror. If you’ve seen it you know what I’m talking about. It’s really really impressive from a technical standpoint. 

It really reminded me of Death Stranding’s mirror bit.

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I don't know what's worse, sneaking about when there's enemies around or knowing the game is only drip-feeding me ammo in this building full of waist-high objects because I'm going to get into a fight.

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Spoiler about an encounter during day 2 (after Hillcrest):

 

Spoiler

The part where you use the workbench in a seemingly empty building and get attacked by WLF soldiers proper shit me up, I think I literally jumped out of my seat! I was so unprepared and hadn't really sorted myself out properly after the encounter in the bar moments before so it was so scrappy and frankly exhilarating. Loving this so much. 

 

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1 minute ago, mansizerooster said:

Did the basement of the hospital last night.

 

Jesus Christ.

I recorded my playthrough of that bit. Loved it:

Spoiler



 

 

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10 minutes ago, Pob said:

I recorded my playthrough of that bit. Loved it:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haha ok so turns out there's more than one hospital basement in this game...

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Jim Sterling has given this a 7 out of 10, in a very spoiler filled review that does explain a lot of the contradictions of the storyline. all the talk earlier on this page about the number of dogs that you kill is a significant point that he raises and terms of storytelling and if you finish the game you'll know what he's talking about. When the review started I thought that he was deliberately trying to be controversial but I think he makes some interesting points.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, mansizerooster said:

Did the basement of the hospital last night.

 

Jesus Christ.


This is where I stopped playing yesterday. Sounds interesting. :)

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There is no denying the quality, mind blowing detail and touches this game has it really is untouchable on atmosphere.

 

However I am utterly torn and don't think I'd play it again, unlike the first game which ive completed numerous times.

Spoiler

 

On one hand the revenge story is classic western territory, and you start wanting nothing but revenge. The second half playing as Abby feels all wrong from the off, yes she is a loved daughter whose father was murdered and also wants revenge. Difference being you have no emotional bond with that character and instinctively don't like her. 

 

One story has far more emotional weight for the player whose ending of the first game and the beginning of this is really touching and shocking. I couldn't help feeling I don't want to play this character and wanted to play as Ellie. Even the balances of the character building over the story make you feel that Abby isn't a good person. Her intervention to save her new found protagonists through some sort of redemption journey doesn't work emotionally as she's slept with her ex whose expecting his first child. It just feels off. As her story unfolded I still didn't like her.

 

Spending hours helping the 2 scars rather than Tommy who just appears after you think he's dead seems stupid, and further enhances the balance issues for me playing far too long a character I don't care about and actually dislike. Even the losses on both stories sides don't feel right,  I cared about Jesse, and not about Manny when they were killed. I can see clear as day what they were going for but I don't think it worked.

 

On wow factor yep it deserves all the praise but as a sequel I cant help but feel id rather it had never been made, even the comparison of the endings are like chalk and cheese. One left me with a tear in my eye and the other rather deflated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Jim Sterling has given this a 7 out of 10, in a very spoiler filled review that does explain a lot of the contradictions of the storyline. all the talk earlier on this page about the number of dogs that you kill is a significant point that he raises and terms of storytelling and if you finish the game you'll know what he's talking about. When the review started I thought that he was deliberately trying to be controversial but I think he makes some interesting points.

 

 

Yeah, the problem with Jim is that he uses huge games like LOU and Zelda to draw attention to himself, and he’s worth more than that. Like fuck is it a 7. And I thought he’d stopped doing reviews few years back, seems the lure of attracting some controversy was too strong. 

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I'm not watching that review as i'm not finished yet (27 hrs in!) but I haven't killed a dog for over 10 hours. That's not by choice, just none have shown up.

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Well the crux of the complaint is 

 



That the game tries to make you care that you killed someone's dog. You have no choice but to kill it because it's a cutscene qte, and you're supposed to feel bad about it later in the story when it turns out you know the dogs owner, and yet you kill loads of dogs during the game anyway.

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Finished last night. Whew. That was something. 

 

Does it need to exist? No. TLOU ended perfectly. At times, TLOU2 risks that legacy with its sprawling, often messy narrative in search of a greater point about revenge, sacrifice, obsession etc. Like many sequels, it feels self-conscious in trying to forge a new path while honouring what came before. 

 

TLOU2 veered between skillfully manipulating my emotions and yanking at them like I were a marionette. I can totally understand some reviewers reactions of ‘do they think I’m stupid?’ because a fair portion of what’s laid out would be obvious to anyone who’s not fourteen and possesses the slightest hint of self reflection. But, but but buuuuut it does come together in some powerful ways, even if there were a number of earnest stumbles to get there. 

 

The ending left me feeling sad, optimistic, and musing on its significance after the credits had rolled. While I’ve played through TLOU maybe four or five times over the years, I’m quite sure I never want to experience this game again. Sure, a bit of that is due to pacing, but mostly because to do so would only labour TLOU2’s message and subsequently cheapen it. Because it’s not communicated cleanly enough? Because it’s such a bleak experience? Partly, yes, but also because it obviously effected me on some level and why would I fiddle with that? 

 

Also, gameplay was pretty good. 

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Re: dogs.

Spoiler

You don't have to kill any other dogs than that mandatory one though. It's more challenging, but it's doable. So if you didn't kill any dogs because you don't want to, that one will hit you hard, especially since you get to know Alice later on.


I don't know. I think Jim is a bit hyperbolic, especially with the Molyneux namedropping. It's not like ND made any grand claims that turned out to be a load of bullshit in the end.
The point about making the combat fun while condemming violence at the same time is an interesting one though. Spec Ops The Line received a lot of praise for its story, but the gameplay was so simplistic and boring that I've never completed it. It's not an easy balancing act. But I still think you can enjoy the gameplay while also agreeing with the points it's trying to make.

I was one those people who didn't really want a sequel, but in the end I'm glad we got one, not in the least because it's definitely a better game mechanically.

That said, new IP next Naughty Dog.

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1 hour ago, CGB said:

Spoiler about an encounter during day 2 (after Hillcrest):

 

  Hide contents

The part where you use the workbench in a seemingly empty building and get attacked by WLF soldiers proper shit me up, I think I literally jumped out of my seat! I was so unprepared and hadn't really sorted myself out properly after the encounter in the bar moments before so it was so scrappy and frankly exhilarating. Loving this so much. 

 

 

Yes, this is what I was referring to yesterday. It was worse in headphones - like something out of a nightmare. I just paused and threw the controller down.

 

The section after it was also Resident Evil style creepy.

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Just got the character model bug @Pug has been having. Hoping it's a one-off for me.

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It's weird watching people play through this on Twitch/YouTube. I noticed a lot of the time players will immediately make a beeline for the exit door and I think...well that's many thousands of pounds and hours of level design/art assets down the toilet. :lol:  I started to wonder if it's possible to simply peg a smoke bomb at the exit doors that inevitably take time to open, then run into the smoke and leave without hassle? Highly dependent on difficulty settings, I'm sure.

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I'm interested in this angle , to have a story that says, "violence is a bad thing", but in a violent video game where the violence is being served up as a piece of entertainment.  It reminded me of the Netflix documentary Don't F*** with Cats (I have deleted the word FUCK there so I will not cause offence to people who do not appreciate the word FUCK ) where the last episode basically explains that you're watching a documentary about a man who did horrific things on Youtube because he wanted the publicity and yet you're paying for a service that made a documentary about him, even though you'd never heard of him before the documentary came out.  

 

If a GTA game had missions that showed the victims of crime and explained that car theft was a bad thing, you'd laugh it out of the park.  I'm not buying TLOU2 until it's £20 because I never really enjoyed the gameplay of the first one (it's certainly no Burnout 2), but I do want to play it, because it sounds...  weird! Based on the comments in the thread.  Like, it's hammering home that the violence is wrong, in a game that's 30 hours of violent entertainment.  

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That's why I could never watch streamers or other people playing games. A game like this deserves maximum immersion - not talking all over it, knowing people are watching every move you make.

 

The moments where I'm taking cover somewhere and scores of enemies come pouring in MAKE the game for me. Seeing flashlights bounce of the wall next to where i'm hiding while the chatter of the enemy intensifies, the idea of just running to the exit seems completely absurd. This is where i'm going to put all my knowledge off the mechanics into use. How the plans I'm making in my head on the fly under pressure are going to play out. Whether the choices of which items I've made with my limited resources were justified. How the enemies react to seeing their comrades picked off one by one start losing it. When things go to plan, it's satisfying. And when all fucking hell breaks loose because i fucked up, it's exhilarating. 

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16 minutes ago, Number 28 said:

It's weird watching people play through this on Twitch/YouTube. I noticed a lot of the time players will immediately make a beeline for the exit door and I think...well that's many thousands of pounds and hours of level design/art assets down the toilet. :lol:

 

I was thinking the same when I noticed that after a while players just clumsily bump Ellie around the edges of each new environment looking for nothing but the little circle which indicates a pickup - how many entire weeks and months of their lives did people spend making that collection of lovingly-rendered, basically ignored assets?

 

I'd no doubt be doing the exact same thing (I'd probably just turn the auto pick up thing on after a while, as pressing a button hundreds of times to pick things up isn't exactly meaningful gameplay in and of itself), but you don't notice how awkward it looks when you're in control and it's the most efficient way to scan for pickups.

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Thanks to work (boo!) I haven’t played much over the past few days so I’m really looking forward to getting back into it tonight. 
 

Maybe I’m naive but I don’t think the game is saying anything about violence as such - it’s a meditation on revenge. First few hour’s spoilers:

 

Spoiler

Naughty Dog knew that the most celebrated aspect of the first game was the relationship between Joel and Ellie - by killing Joel in the sequel the developers haven’t made a game just about Ellie’s revenge - it’s the player’s revenge too. 


 

There’s nothing particularly impressive about the plot conceit per say, although it’s extremely well crafted; what’s unique is how the game involves the player on the same level as the avatar. Fear, anger, joy and sadness are all there in Ellie’s story - what they don’t tell you is you’re the one feeling them. 

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22 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I'm interested in this angle , to have a story that says, "violence is a bad thing", but in a violent video game where the violence is being served up as a piece of entertainment.  It reminded me of the Netflix documentary Don't F*** with Cats (I have deleted the word FUCK there so I will not cause offence to people who do not appreciate the word FUCK ) where the last episode basically explains that you're watching a documentary about a man who did horrific things on Youtube because he wanted the publicity and yet you're paying for a service that made a documentary about him, even though you'd never heard of him before the documentary came out.  

 

If a GTA game had missions that showed the victims of crime and explained that car theft was a bad thing, you'd laugh it out of the park.  I'm not buying TLOU2 until it's £20 because I never really enjoyed the gameplay of the first one (it's certainly no Burnout 2), but I do want to play it, because it sounds...  weird! Based on the comments in the thread.  Like, it's hammering home that the violence is wrong, in a game that's 30 hours of violent entertainment.  

 

It's not 30 hours of 'violence is bad', don't rely on YouTube hot-take videos for critical discourse without playing it.

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top tip, unless you are playing on Hard mode get some use out of your good weapons. Don't be like me and save your best shit for a fight that never comes, Resi 4 style :( 

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42 minutes ago, Majora said:

 

It's not 30 hours of 'violence is bad', don't rely on YouTube hot-take videos for critical discourse without playing it.

Yeah this is true, it’s a game that knows what it is and it wants the player to have fun. People get obsessed over the story or the ‘message’ and it’s only by playing that you understand it’s a game first and foremost. 

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I find all the arguments that run along the lines of "Oh, so you wanted me to kill all those other people/dogs, and that was fine, but now I'm supposed to feel guilty about this particular one just because they get a cutscene?" a bit disingenuous.

 

It's like watching Saving Private Ryan and coming out complaining you can't be expected to care about Private Ryan, because what about all the soldiers that die during the film but don't have their names in the title?

 

The idea is that you take a particular event that you have more detailed personal knowledge and experience of, and then use your imagination to extrapolate it and apply it to the situations that you have less context on. It's only one step up from complaining that you can't be expected to care about fiction because someone just made it all up.

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I think I'm nearing the end. I'm 21 hours in. I.love. this. Everything about it is done with such thought, the story so tactful, heart-wrenching, sweet, sad, funny, rage-inducing... it's just incredible. I haven't felt so many emotions in a game in a long, long time. And the combat is so fucking satisfying! Even a punch packs such weight. I love it. I really love it. And I don't think it's possible for it to disappoint me, regardless of the ending.

Man... what a fucking game!

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And done.

An amazing technical and storytelling achievement that outstayed its welcome and that I found lacking in gameplay. I got a ton of enjoyment from it but can’t see myself replaying it either.

I feel vindicated in my earlier opinion when this got announced, that ND should have come up with a new IP instead of this.

I also find myself somewhat agreeing with the recent comments of Shawn Layden - this is definitely a product of excess - would love to see how they figured out the project’s P&L.

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10 hours ago, Pob said:

I recorded my playthrough of that bit. Loved it:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice video. I actually managed to that section really easily by 

Spoiler

Lobbing a Molotov at the three soldiers the moment they dropped into the room, which caught two and weakened one, who the clickers then finished off. After that it was pretty easy to take the clickers down silently.

 

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