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The Last of Us Part 2 - Now updated for PS5 for at 60fps


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53 minutes ago, the_debaser said:

 

I suppose that subverted my expectations, to paraphrase the new defence of this game. 

 

By your own admission you only played six hours so you really wouldn't know if this is the case or not, would you?

 

It's totally valid to have an opinion on the six hours you played but don't pretend you can hold a valid opinion on the next twenty. I'm sure we'll still see you buying the next big narrative driven game you know you'll hate so you can complain about all the non-gamey bits and then talk forever about how terrible the first five hours were before you gave up.

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2 hours ago, BongoInferno said:

Last of Us Part 2 is incredible and I think probably my game of the last generation. I still think about it months after finishing it. Honestly if you didn’t finish it, or you abandoned it after 10 hours or whatever, I just don’t think you can form a valid opinion on it. You have missed so much. 

 

Completed it mate.

 

2 hours ago, Majora said:

 

There is basically a whole genre now that is part action adventure and part walking sim.

 

 

I blame Gears Of War for this. Those sections where the main guy has his finger in his ear and you're just listening to shitty dialogue and walking slowly. Could've peeled my own skin off.

 

I thought that kind of thing was just to mask loading, anyway? Do they put it in there thinking people actually like the pace and lack of action?

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27 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

I blame Gears Of War for this. Those sections where the main guy has his finger in his ear and you're just listening to shitty dialogue and walking slowly. Could've peeled my own skin off.

 

I thought that kind of thing was just to mask loading, anyway? Do they put it in there thinking people actually like the pace and lack of action?

 

I actually think most games do it in a way that's more reminiscent of Half-Life 2, they're just not so beholden to having no cutscenes as that game was, God of War excepted.

 

It definitely isn't being done to mask loading nowadays and we'll still see plenty of it this generation even with the SSDs. Insomniac aren't crafting whole scenes about decorating your apartment for Christmas just to mask 10 seconds of loading. Ultimately it's a choice between watching cutscenes or 'acting out' the narrative if you're building a story heavy action game. I think both have their place. If your choice is neither then you should probably just be playing other types of games entirely.

 

(Of course there are other well-worn ways to tell stories such as through audio logs, diaries, environmental exploration etc but I genuinely can't see how you could tell this type of story in that way.)

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38 minutes ago, Majora said:

It's totally valid to have an opinion on the six hours you played but don't pretend you can hold a valid opinion on the next twenty

 

I don't think anyone's doing that. If the game isn't doing it for them, it's not worth persevering out of some obligation.

 

A game could have the most fantastic experience from eight hours in, but if I'm bored after four, the game deserves all the criticism I'd throw at it.

 

A hypothetical game. Not this one, I loved it.

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There was a thing I read years ago, the gist was that some magazine gave a poor review to a Gameboy Advance game (maybe Castlevania COTM) and gave it 2 out of 5.  The publishers had loaned the cartridge to the magazine for review purposes and when they got it back there was only one save slot used and the total gameplay added up to 45 minutes.  

 

Now these were simpler times and you'd multiply everything by 10 if the same happened today. But when the publisher complained, the reviewer said he hated every minute of the game and 45 minutes was all he could stand.  You'd probably understand how the map will open up and your characters abilities will grow in that time, but there needs to be something, some "hook" or other that makes you want to progress.  45 minutes seemed too short for a reviewer who's being paid to review, but the question raised by all this was, 'should a reviewer be forced to play a game to completion before writing the review?'  and that's the same argument that's being made in this thread.  How can we possibly say we don't like the game after "only" 6 hours?

 

Because ultimately, if you don't like it, you don't like it.  And in these days of 40 hour epics should we be expected to play a mediocre game for the first 30 hours because the review says the last ten are the single best video game experience you will ever play, for example. 

 

These great moments are spoiled by being part of the overall product.  To say "you only played 6 hours so you can't form an opinion yet" is ludicrous.  Frankly, I'm assuming Hillcrest is going to be awesome (about to play it now actually) but these nuggets of greatness are wrapped in a package I'm not enjoying and so even if Hillcrest is the greatest gaming experience of my life, I'm still done with it because for me this isn't a good game in the round.  I can totally see why others would love it, but I'm glad to see its not just me and thread has delivered some excellent reason why people love it / hate it so much. 

 

I don't want to buy a boring album because it has one great song on it.  I'll happily buy the single.  There's a very good 10 hour game here, somewhere.

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I felt exactly like you did by this point Dumpster. Aimless walking around checking for resources & long drawn out scenes with nothing happening. But I pushed on & completed it.

 

nothing changes. You’ll be doing the same shit repeatedly for the next 20hrs. Stick a fork in it. I only felt the need to finish it because it was such a high profile release. 

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@dumpster The game does change things up in a significant way at a certain point, but not mechanically. That's the point being made about 'needing to play a bit more'. Largely, I agree with what you're saying. Same as the old 'you need to watch ten episodes before it gets good'. That's not quite relevant here though because, start to finish, it's all of a similar standard from a gameplay perspective. 

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45 minutes in to my first run through Circle of the Moon it had just stopped being a game about being constantly poisoned by snakes falling from the ceiling, and had started being a game about doing 100 awkward floaty jumps, so I could really see a reviewer losing their mind over it. :lol: 

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Yeah this argument that suddenly someone's going to 'see the light' after another 5>10 hours playtime is not going to happen with this type of game. Yes there are some interesting story beats, epic setpieces, emotional moments and whatnot afterwards - but fundamentally it's still the same game, with the same mechanics and attitude to interactivity. I think LOU2 is mostly great and I've been vocal about why, but if someone's played it for 6-10 hours then the story is about the only thing I don't think they can evaluate properly.

 

For me I really liked the combat sequences and scavenging, probably helped a lot because I played on Survivor difficulty. I would recommend people bumping it up to that if they are finding it unengaging. On Survivor you need to use stealth a lot more and the environment, because ammo is really tight and when the shit hits the fan you have to hit those shots because you die so quickly. It also adds more meaning to scavenging because you're often desperately trying to cobble together enough for a medkit, arrows or whatnot to give you a fighting chance at the next encounter. And it rewards creativity in the combat arenas more, like using the zombies against the humans, or luring dogs into traps, ninja tactics and so forth. I relished each combat arena and got to know them quite well because you die a lot!

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I stopped playing this, sadly. Around about the time I killed my first dog (in the game, not in real life). It was stressing me out. I play very few games these days, and just thought, "Life's too short."

 

I think a big factor for quitting was...

 

Spoiler

the death of Joel.

 

IMO, the ending of the first game was perfect and probably didn't need a sequel. I might be wrong, because I gave up on it. Is there a youtube video or something which lays out the story? Because I'll never go back to it.

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2 hours ago, Stanley said:

I can’t stand these discussions in which one party is threatening to quit playing unless someone else can explain to them or convince them why they shouldn’t. Just stop playing.

No-one's "threatening to quit playing", it's all about understanding. I find it really interesting to learn what people are seeing that I'm missing, but also seeing the mixture of opinions after the dust has settled since launch. Last year this game was loved by reviewers but hated by internet trolls giving it 1/10 on metacritic and ranting about lesbians.  Almost a year later there's a much more mixed opinion that I'd imagined. For me, it's really interesting to see all points of view after the launch hype is gone.

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25 minutes ago, dumpster said:

No-one's "threatening to quit playing"

 

16 hours ago, dumpster said:

Frankly, I'm assuming Hillcrest is going to be awesome (about to play it now actually) but these nuggets of greatness are wrapped in a package I'm not enjoying and so even if Hillcrest is the greatest gaming experience of my life, I'm still done with it because for me this isn't a good game in the round.

I mean, you literally did just that. 

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I loved the visceral nature of this and found the story powerful and unpredictable.

 

Love the combat, love the stealth, love the exploration, love the atmosphere, love the relationships and love the settings.

 

The 

Spoiler

Epilogue and subsequent rampage to The Black Angels is still an all time gaming highlight. All the more powerful as I was begging the game not to let Ellie go on her revenge mission just moments earlier.


Can’t wait to play it again on Grounded when they patch it for PS5.

 

The only problem I can see is, where the hell could they take it next?? I look forward to finding out though.

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On 07/03/2021 at 04:22, dumpster said:

No-one's "threatening to quit playing", it's all about understanding. I find it really interesting to learn what people are seeing that I'm missing, but also seeing the mixture of opinions after the dust has settled since launch. Last year this game was loved by reviewers but hated by internet trolls giving it 1/10 on metacritic and ranting about lesbians.  Almost a year later there's a much more mixed opinion that I'd imagined. For me, it's really interesting to see all points of view after the launch hype is gone.


I wouldn’t take this thread as too much of a barometer of opinion. As usual the people with negative opinions shout the loudest, increasingly so as time passes and people move on.

 

It’s classic late-to-the-party chat that you get with films that won the best picture Oscar. At this stage, discussion always skews toward people that have grudgingly watched it late and don’t get what all the fuss is about and the people that enjoyed it at the time have already discussed it and moved on months ago. 

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4 hours ago, Stanley said:

It’s the same thing, you’ve only gone as far as Hillcrest as far as I can tell due to people convincing you it gets better. 

At the same time if you can't handle criticism of the game why bother engaging? There seems to be quite an interesting chat going on about the pros/cons of the The Last of Us 2, very little sniping, very little kicking off. 

 

I loved the game and really can't see how the combat isn't basically best in class for this type of thing, but it's interesting reading why other people haven't necessarily gotten on with it. 

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By and large, Naughty Dog stick to their guns of making cutting edge visuals combined with 'solid' gameplay. I have absolutely no idea how they could go about their modus operandi any other way. You're not going to get a full-on open world game from them without compromising on their way of story-telling. I mean, as we all know as soon as you have an open world you'll start to get bored and want to try and break the game somehow. I suspect this is the thing that keeps ND up at night, and it's not going to be something they can solve any time soon.

 

So, you do 'solid' gameplay - you make it enjoyable and fun but you'll not get anything remotely near to a revolution in the way they do it. 

 

And that doesn't bother me in the slightest - I enjoy their games enormously. Uncharted 4 is a thing of wonder to me, plus I love playing it too!

 

I hope they give the LoU universe a rest though. I remain unconvinced that the tale they told should have been, and I'd have much preferred it if they'd just told another tale in the world and left the characters from the original alone - they did their job, and it remains one of the very best tales in gaming. I don't think the tale LoU2 tells is anywhere near as well done - and it was trying to be too clever by half. 

 

But it is a great game, despite that - the craft which has gone into it is astonishing to me. I'm glad I played it, and it kept me engrossed from beginning to end!

 

Something a little more light-hearted next though, please!

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16 hours ago, JoeK said:

Something a little more light-hearted next though, please!

 

Yeah even though I enjoyed TLOU2, the prospect of going back for another playthough of such a grim game and storyline is not very appealing to me. The only other games that have given me that feeling are the most scary/disturbing horror games (getting stalked by Alan for example), or really grim stuff like This War of Mine.

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