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Star Trek Discovery


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On 30/03/2019 at 11:09, Benny said:

on that fight...

 

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I tell you what, next time I'm firing a phaser at some cyber enhanced bad guy, if I see a single shot makes him stagger back then you can damn well be sure I wont stop shooting at him. Not just once for dramatic effect, and especially not if he gets into a Kung Fu fight.

 

 

Hilariously, it's like the script writers have been reading this thread because in the latest episode:

 

Spoiler

Burnham actually keeps shooting at the cyber guy to keep him staggered this time.

 

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Voyager was terrible but had a few initially interesting alien races which didn't really get developed (Vidians, those space CIA guys and early species 8472) but I suppose you have to balance them against the terrible ideas of the Kazon and the space dustmen.

 

I'm not sure Discovery has anything like that but I still prefer it to Voyager although I did like Year of Hell and the one where the invisible aliens were banging nails into everyone's head.

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4 hours ago, deKay said:

Started watching this at the weekend, only seen the first two episodes so no spoilers, please.

 

Does it stay this dark (literally dark as well as thematically) all the way through? I know The Orville is "the new TNG", and I know latter DS9 was darker than TNG, but where does this fall? Because so far, and yes, I know I'm only two episodes in, this really isn't Star Trek. Even the new films are more Star Trek than this.

 

I'm not saying I'm not enjoying it, because I am, just wondering where it's going. I'm already guessing they go more "male officer" focussed as I could just feel the toxic anti-fems raging at the screen while I watched :(

 

 

General trajectory of Discovery so far is as follows:

 

- First half of Season 1 is a bit misguided but generally has potential

- Second half of Season 1 is utterly stupid in every respect but somehow still fairly entertaining

- Season 2 starts strongly, everyone is relieved

- then it gets worse and worse with every successive episode and is currently borderline unwatchable and doing big smelly shits all over the franchise

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5 hours ago, Mogster said:

It's also terrible. It has its high points, but at its lowest it's just so completely dumb. 

 

This is it.  The show has some potential.  I may not like the actual set up of a minor prequel to TOS but there's no reason it could not be a fun and interesting show in timeframe that TOS exists in. The first season had some good episodes and a broadly interesting through plot, mainly because of the mystery of a certain character.  Season 2 has been much more miss for me.  The overriding plot does not really work and we're two episodes from the end and it really does seem to have been treading water for about half a season already. The classic problem of a serialised show of having a plot and having an ending planned, running out of plot but want to keep the cool ending for the season finale.  The solution?  Just stretch the plot out.  I honestly cannot remember what has happened in the last 3 or 4 episodes as they have all blended into one samey blob. 

 

I miss DS9.  An overriding plot but each episode still felt like a self contained story.  I think arc based series makes Writers lazy these days.  You can just stretch everything out until you're ready to bring the story to an end.  Back in the TNG days, you had to be able to write a beginning, middle and end in 44 minutes which definitely helps both the pacing but also we got some really good plots out of it.  Now, if you start with a duff story line you're basically stuck with it until the end of the season. 

 

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They went so overboard with the whiz bang technology in this I do wonder how they're going to differentiate the Picard show to show that it’s further advanced. Holograms? No they're coming out the wazoo. Cyborgs? The Federation is already churning them out. Communicator Badges? They even give one to Klingons in a greasy tramp skin suit.

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Right, I’ve binge watched this over the past couple of weeks.

 

I can’t decide what I feel about it.

 

Random thoughts from all episodes up to current on Netflix.

 

 


It’s addictive, somehow entertaining, but it’s not Star Trek. What is it?

Its some dark mythos-based drama that happens to be on a spaceship.


I don’t like Burnham.  Some of the whole point of Star Trek was this idea that anybody and everybody could be somebody.  Having one person be the centre of the universe (pretty much) really ruins that.  

Spock isn’t necessary.  He isn’t enough like Spock to make it work.


Also - Star Trek was hopeful and inspiring, it was cool to dream about the future it portrayed.  This is no longer the case.  That makes me sad.  Kids can’t watch this show, maybe that’s not the end of the world but they’re missing out.  Maybe they’ll still watch TNG etc.

Fuck off with the spore drive.  I’m sorry, mushrooms?! Magic fucking mushrooms are the essence of everything?!?!?!?

Mirror universe was always a weird story choice for me, that doesn’t change because it’s literally the first card they’ve played.

Stop killing people.  And stop bringing them back from the dead.  Your viewership will lose faith in everything you present.

Control is so The Borg.  They’ll explain away the arctic drones with a Time Crystal and Control going back in time to get a massive advantage on the entire universe. Struggle is pointless. 

It suffers for not letting us get to know the characters.  Stammets and Tilly were the only ones who had any traction for a long time, at least the bridge crew are starting to speak now.

Pike is great.

Lorca was great until he was bad.

Why does everyone know Section 31?  Starfleet neither confirmed nor denied their existence in DS9.  Here they’re all over the bloody shop broadcasting themselves and having liaison officers, so much for covert ops.
 

 

 

Why can’t I stop watching it?

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It's like a car crash you can't help but stand and watch happening in front of your eyes. Except both cars are hurtling toward you, and sometimes you think that maybe the cars will miss you in those brief seconds before your death, and then both turn into a decent Star Trek show.

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Spoiler

Okay, so, Spock and Burnham decide to take a shuttle and chase down control. When they arrive it had thrown all the people into vacuum and they're all dead, apart from one. They then decide that they need that person to "help" them find their way around, despite then totally doing fine without him the whole time they're on the ship.

 

It says it can cross the room and break her in 0.8 seconds, wow! I'd like to see that! Of course, when they actually do fight, it acts instead like a rather slow lumbering robot man. Ducking behind cover instead of fighting or acting inhuman (have these people ever read any sci-fi??). Control seems like the most stupid all powerful ai ever. I know I'll junk my entire crew, instead of taking over all of them, put myself in a single space suit, where I may never be found, on the off chance that Burnham herself shows up.

 

Then when she does, natch, I'll fuck around with her pretending to be a real boy, instead of just converting her while her suspicions are still not entirely raised. And why do that? Because I want the big database of knowledge that the sensible crew of the discovery have seemingly woven into the fabric of their ship, like all space faring species would do with archaic alien technology they find. Instead of, oh I don't know, setting up some sort of virtual firewalled server, that could be switched off from outside if need be. Or even unplugged from the wall and then ejected into space where they could get Burnham to shoot torpedos at it for them.

 

Besides if they did realise that this vast tub of knowledge was completely benign and able to be integrated right away into their systems then the first thing they'd have done would have been to send backups of to other federation ships. Just in case something happened to Discovery. Talk about scriptwriters who a) don't seem to know Star Trek, b) don't know computers, c) don't seem to have read any sci-fi, d) can't think outside the box with their rogue AI (why is it even taking control of humans? Other than when it was initially hiding, it doesn't seem to need them.)

 

What are you doing, Burnham?

 

 

 

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Exactly right @Danster

 

The writers are just rubbish, It reminds me of The Walking Dead, they keep trying to create drama because they think that's the only thing that will keep viewers interested.  They don't understand that we, as Star Trek fans, like story, adventure and hope.  We don't need a bad guy with nails in his baseball bat!

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Apparently the Picard series is currently in trouble, because the Star Trek: Discovery creative team are insisting it use Discovery style ships/asthetics to preserve their ‘artistic vision’ (bit late for that, guys.) CBS aren’t overly keen on this because Discovery did very badly in the merchandising department, so I think they’re after the more logical TNG look, and the two are at loggerheads. 

 

If true, this reminds me a bit of Gimple fucking up The Walking Dead, then transferring over to Fear The Walking Dead and fucking that up too. Trying to overwrite TNG is pretentious arrogance and won’t go down well with anyone. It’s due to start production in a week or two so they have to reach a decision/compromise in the next few days or CBS is out millions by delaying it. 

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49 minutes ago, Garibaldi said:

Apparently the Picard series is currently in trouble, because the Star Trek: Discovery creative team are insisting it use Discovery style ships/asthetics to preserve their ‘artistic vision’ (bit late for that, guys.) CBS aren’t overly keen on this because Discovery did very badly in the merchandising department, so I think they’re after the more logical TNG look, and the two are at loggerheads. 

 

If true, this reminds me a bit of Gimble fucking up The Walking Dead, then transferring over to Fear The Walking Dead and fucking that up too. Trying to overwrite TNG is pretentious arrogance and won’t go down well with anyone. It’s due to start production in a week or two so they have to reach a decision/compromise in the next few days or CBS is out millions by delaying it. 

 

Fuck's sake.  I was hoping the Discovery 'creative' team would not be allowed anywhere near Picard series. 

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4 minutes ago, jcafarley said:

I may be wrong, but didn’t Stewart have a fair bit of influence on Nemesis? That combined with Discovery’s team concerns me.

 

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-trek-nemesis/36477/star-trek-nemesis-what-went-wrong

 

 

Quote

Nemesis came as a bit of a surprise, to Patrick Stewart at least, as with the completion of Star Trek: Insurrection; the contracts of the core cast (except perhaps, Michael Dorn due to his involvement on Deep Space Nine) were complete and none had any on-going commitment to the studio or further Star Trek films.

 

It was a phone call between Brent Spiner, and his friend (and huge Star Trek fan) John Logan, the writer of Ridley Scott's Gladiator, that led to the film's development.

 

Quote

Thanks to LeVar Burton having a word with Rick Berman, Wil Wheaton finally makes an appearance as Wesley Crusher in a Star Trek: The Next Generation film. Just.

 

Quote

Indeed even Patrick Stewart went on record to state, in an interview with Dreamwatch:

 

“I think if there was ever a real need for an extended edition of any work we have done, it would be Nemesis.”

 

He went on to say

 

“It wouldn't be a Director's Cut of the film.., that may have been even shorter, but maybe an Actor's Cut.”

 

I think Stewart ENJOYED making it, due to the action scenes, but...

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2 hours ago, McCoy said:

 

Fuck's sake.  I was hoping the Discovery 'creative' team would not be allowed anywhere near Picard series. 

 

It was a bit of a shock to me as well. I bet the suits just said 'why would we need a new bunch of Star Trek writers for this Picard show? We've got a team ready to go right here!' 

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10 minutes ago, Garibaldi said:

 

It was a bit of a shock to me as well. I bet the suits just said 'why would we need a new bunch of Star Trek writers for this Picard show? We've got a team ready to go right here!' 

Reminds me of the account that the NX-01 Enterprise looked like it did because one of the suits demanded that the creative team recycle the Akira class ship design for the new prequel series.

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This is  the Picard show writing team.

 

  • Michael Chabon - Has won a Pulitzer for his novel work. One of the writers of Spider-Man 2. But also helped write John Carter.
  • Akiva Godlsman - Uber-hack responsible for Batman and Robin, Lost in Space, I, Robot, I Am Legand, basically a whole river of shit
  • Kristen Beyer - Star Trek Discovery is pretty much all that’s on her screenwriting CV. Yeesh! Before that it appears she was mainly writing licensed Voyager novels. Yeesh!
  • James Duff - Looks like he mainly has a history in your big-standard US procedural crime shows. Apart from that he wrote an episode of Enterprise called Fortunate Son. Internet says:
Quote

Enterprise is sent to help the freighter Fortunate after an attack. However, its first officer, Ryan, is hiding something.

 

Anyone seen it?

 

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9 minutes ago, Harsin said:

This is  the Picard show writing team.

 

  • Michael Chabon - Has won a Pulitzer for his novel work. One of the writers of Spider-Man 2. But also helped write John Carter.
  • Akiva Godlsman - Uber-hack responsible for Batman and Robin, Lost in Space, I, Robot, I Am Legand, basically a whole river of shit
  • Kristen Beyer - Star Trek Discovery is pretty much all that’s on her screenwriting CV. Yeesh! Before that it appears she was mainly wring licensed Voyager novels. Yeesh!
  • James Duff - Looks like he mainly has a history in your big-standard US procedural crime shows. Apart from that he wrote an episode of Enterprise called Fortunate Son. Internet says:

 

 

 

They really should have got some of the TNG guys back to help with the new Picard show.  Brannon gets a lot of shit but he's great at Sci Fi, arguably a better writer than a show runner. Voyager would have been much improved leaving him to do individual episodes and getting someone else in to guide the show in the right direction. 

 

The rest of the TNG/DS9 during the shows heydays (TNG 3 onwards, DS9 pretty much the whole thing) were all pretty good and any of them would be a good guiding hand for the new series.  If the later movies and Discovery prove anything is that it is either not that easy to write decent Trek or we've just been burdoned with pretty average writers in the last few decades.  

 

Part of me really thinks the new Picard series is going to struggle to get the 'voice' right, particularly if any of the Discovery guys are involved. 

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3 minutes ago, Mogster said:

I can vaguely remember that episode, although it was from the first season so chances are it wasn't up to much.

 

Yeah, first season Enterprise went in a new direction and got a load of people in to write who had no idea how to write Star Trek.  The quality of the episodes and their short lived tenure on that show tells you everything.  That one of them has been invited back for Picard sadly tells you even more. 

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I keep thinking of the godawful camera work in this show. I can only assume that some idiot thinks it makes the show seem dynamic and exciting.

 

Unconventional shots can be incredibly effective. Take this shot from Into the Spiderverse.

 

5c758524eb3ce87cd655fca4-750-562.jpg

 

They didn't just just turn the (virtual) camera upside down because they thought it looked cool. From the script:

 

Quote

Miles walks to the edge of the roof, the wind buffeting... and LEAPS! The camera is UPSIDE DOWN. Miles isn't falling through frame. He's RISING.

 

In fact just watch the whole sequence, it’s stunning.

 

 

Now compare it to stuff this:

 

giphy.gif

 

'A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.'

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21 minutes ago, Mogster said:

Discovery's rotating camera shots are becoming self-parody at this point. I'm sure one was used last week just to show a character sitting still.

 

I'm starting to think they might be a plot point.  Like we might be revisiting sections of this season time travel wise.

 

It is a bit of a stretch though, it just seems really weird that we seem to be having them in every episode. 

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5 hours ago, Garibaldi said:

Apparently the Picard series is currently in trouble, because the Star Trek: Discovery creative team are insisting it use Discovery style ships/asthetics to preserve their ‘artistic vision’ (bit late for that, guys.)

There's going to be well over 100 years between Discovery and the new Picard show. It seems to be 129 years between the start of Discovery and Nemesis and this will be sometime after Nemesis. Shit will have to be different.

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