No Time To Die: Bond 25 - Out Now

[K]

My problem with Spectre was this combination of really lavish, OTT visuals and setpieces, and everything being treated with an absurd level of gravitas, combined with some very perfunctory story and plot developments. So Blofeld's motivation for being the world's most evil man is that he was jealous of Bond when he was a child. Bond finds Blofeld's secret base because it's written on a post-it note he finds. Bond finds his love interest after she's been kidnapped and hidden somewhere in the MI6 base by running around opening doors and cupboards, and he just sort of gets the right one after a bit. Bond foils Blofeld's plan to escape in a helicopter by shooting at the helicopter, and making a very lucky shot. The car chase in Italy is so dull that Bond forgets he's in a car chase and rings up Miss Moneypenny to do some admin, and Dave Bautista has to remind him to continue with the car chase by driving up next to him and clearing his throat.

 

There were some good bits - I liked the bit where he tracks down Mr White in that ruined chalet, and the opening helicopter bit is splendid - but the whole thing has an air of "is this really the best idea you could collectively come up with?"

[ZOK]

3 minutes ago, K said:

the whole thing has an air of "is this really the best idea you could collectively come up with?"

To be fair, that applies to most Bonds made in the last twenty years or so.

[Sidewaysbob]

However, You go back to the Roger Moore era. They are really terrible at just the level of misogyny. 

There's one with a desert scene where Rog ends up in a tent with a chap he knew at Eton or whatever. They have a chat and then his mates turns to the scantily clad lasses and basically offers Bond one of the girls for sex for the night!

 

Even at its most dumb moment Question of sport wasn't that bad. 

[K]

That video on Quantum of Solace is superb. I don't agree with all of it - in fact, big sections I disagree with - but it's brilliantly argued and very engaging. I'm a huge fan of the film, and really like its sparse minimalism and tough quality, and he does a great job of highlighting why it's so good while also being very upfront about its failings.

 

I particularly like the bits where he highlights all the sequences that have been edited down to almost nothing, like the joke about the henchman's wig or the same henchman's clothes being blown off by an explosion in the final scene. Or Gemma Arterton's weird, unexplained stripper outfit in her introductory scene, or the incomprehensible business with the speedboat and the anchor that makes it fly into the air for no reason.

 

And I love the idea of QoS as a film about a man resisting the urge to take revenge, which has been misidentified as a film about a man taking revenge. It's a clever film that probably takes too much of a minimalist approach to charting out its plot and character developments, but as the film shows, there's a lot in there and it rewards close analysis.

[Pete]

The problem with QoS is that I've seen it twice and all I can remember is that exploding hotel.

 

Anyway just got back from No Time to Die in a quite quiet morning showing. I enjoyed it, but it didn't feel much like a bond at times even though most of the beats were there. I definitely wasn't bored but it felt like the film had a bit too much baggage on ocassion. All the stuff that was new (and could have been a little bit poochie) were actually the best parts, anything referring to the older films were for me harder work. I think it's going to split opinions here.

 

Spoiler

All those nods to On Her Majesty's Secret Service will go down well with those fans, that was a clue to the fact this was going break the rules a little. Bond was less grumpy, but excited the way is open now for anything really.

 

[SeanR]

2 hours ago, K said:

My problem with Spectre was this combination of really lavish, OTT visuals and setpieces, and everything being treated with an absurd level of gravitas, combined with some very perfunctory story and plot developments. So Blofeld's motivation for being the world's most evil man is that he was jealous of Bond when he was a child. Bond finds Blofeld's secret base because it's written on a post-it note he finds. Bond finds his love interest after she's been kidnapped and hidden somewhere in the MI6 base by running around opening doors and cupboards, and he just sort of gets the right one after a bit. Bond foils Blofeld's plan to escape in a helicopter by shooting at the helicopter, and making a very lucky shot. The car chase in Italy is so dull that Bond forgets he's in a car chase and rings up Miss Moneypenny to do some admin, and Dave Bautista has to remind him to continue with the car chase by driving up next to him and clearing his throat.

 

There were some good bits - I liked the bit where he tracks down Mr White in that ruined chalet, and the opening helicopter bit is splendid - but the whole thing has an air of "is this really the best idea you could collectively come up with?"

it was a bond film directed by Kubrick.

[smithstock]

I saw No Time To Die this morning...

 

Fairly Major Spoilers

Spoiler

Overall, a fitting end to the Daniel Craig-era. I thoroughly enjoyed it, all the not-so-subtle nods to just about every other Bond era were great for fan service. I especially love "we have all the time in the world" as a number, always have. The fact that it played out, almost as a reverse of OHMSS, was pretty fitting too.

 

I honestly think this means a hard reset with Bond going back to the 60s, alongside spinoff stories in different eras for each of the recently introduced characters. Not sure who I fancy for the next Bond though, despite all the talk about Tom Hardy, I'm not sure he would be my pick.

 

Major Spoilers

Spoiler

How on earth was Saffin NOT Dr. No?

 

- Links to SPECTRE

- Brutalist isolated factory

- 1950s/60s era equipment

- He has a zen garden

- He gets called "Doctor"

- Dangerous water and protective outfits

- His outfit

- Broken arm

- The number of times Bond says "No" towards the climax

 

I'm actually really annoyed that it wasn't confirmed in the film, especially after the hasty reveal of Blofeld in the previous entry, but I've since read that the director confirmed he isn't? Just seems a bit weird to have almost a carbon copy of a previous villain in everything but name and backstory (though I suppose that could also be said about a few villains) - though much more on the nose.

 

Also, was I seeing things? Bond was under ice in one of the trailers, that didn't happen in the movie. Was that likely something cut from the movie but done for misdirection?

 

 

[Waggo]

Spoiler

The fact that it played out, almost as a reverse of OHMSS, was pretty fitting too.

 

This is what made it so enjoyable for me.  An excellent twist on a 

Spoiler

very much overlooked Bond film.

 

I think anybody who has liked at least some of the Craig Bond era is going to find this to be a fairly satisfying finale.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, smithstock said:

I saw No Time To Die this morning...

 

Fairly Major Spoilers

  Hide contents

 

 

Major Spoilers

  Hide contents

How on earth was Saffin NOT Dr. No?

 

- Links to SPECTRE

- Brutalist isolated factory

- 1950s/60s era equipment

- He has a zen garden

- He gets called "Doctor"

- Dangerous water and protective outfits

- His outfit

- Broken arm

- The number of times Bond says "No" towards the climax

 

I'm actually really annoyed that it wasn't confirmed in the film, especially after the hasty reveal of Blofeld in the previous entry, but I've since read that the director confirmed he isn't? Just seems a bit weird to have almost a carbon copy of a previous villain in everything but name and backstory (though I suppose that could also be said about a few villains) - though much more on the nose.

 

Also, was I seeing things? Bond was under ice in one of the trailers, that didn't happen in the movie. Was that likely something cut from the movie but done for misdirection?

 

 

To add to that list

Spoiler

The opening titles started Dr. No style too.

 

[teddymeow]

YouTube recommendations already showing ending images from sneaky cam footage.

 

Some people are arseholes!!

[GwiDan]

Roughly how long is this meant to be cinema exclusive?

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, GwiDan said:

Roughly how long is this meant to be cinema exclusive?

I don't think there's been any indication yet, but everything so far points to them wanting to stick to the pre-Covid schedules rather than shorter schedules going on elsewhere now. So maybe available to rent in about 3 months.

[GamesGamesGames]

It's undercooked on the page and maddeningly so, the villain is hugely underwhelming and it's a clusterfuck bc *spoilers*...

 

...BUT, it looks great, has a few genuinely Bond sequences, and most importantly does not feel its runtime.

 

A solid 3/5, and definitely the best Craig Bond.

[kensei]

Imagine you have all the bits of a Bond film - Chases! Spectre! Secret Bases! Big Baddie! Bond Girls! Gadgets!

 

But you suck all the ridiculousness and fun out of it. That's this film, that is.

 

Overwhelming meh out of meh

[Zio]

Just got out of it.

 

So apologies first to @BitterToad, but their experience reminds me of when I first saw Rogue One. Horrible cinema, terrible experience and I hated the film. Then I saw it again. And again. It’s fucking brilliant really, isn’t it? I’m not suggesting the cinema experience was entirely to blame for them not liking this, especially as other people here are a bit lukewarm to it, but it couldn’t have helped.

 

Personally, I loved it. Easily the best of Craig’s Bond movies, but then I liked Skyfall and Quantum of Solace (SPECTRE is fucking shite, though). I mean, I really loved it! Like… maybe… one of the best of the whole series for me?

 

FWIW, Dalton might actually be my favourite Bond, so my opinion may not be worth anything. OHMSS has traditionally tied with From Russia With Love as my favourites. Die Another Day is easily the worst. You may calibrate expectations based on that.

 

I’ll definitely brave the cinema for another viewing before it ends it’s run.

 

Spoiler

If you wait till the very, very last minute of the film, past the credits and once the music stops, it naturally still says…

 

”JAMES BOND WILL RETURN”

 

[mash]

Saw this yesterday, thought it was great. Didn't notice the runtime at all. My favourite of the Craig era.  A celebration of all the best bits of Bond through the years can't be  bad can it? Criticisms?  Rami Malek's villain was a tad underwhelming.  

 

 

Spoiler

 The musical cues to OHMSS early on just gave the game away. You just knew it was going to end tragically 

 

[Waggo]

5 hours ago, mash said:

 

 

  Hide contents

 The musical cues to OHMSS early on just gave the game away. You just knew it was going to end tragically 

 

Yes I thought this too and when: 

Spoiler

Felix died I was convinced that Bond was not going to survive the film either.  A shame really that it was made clear beforehand that this was Craig’s final film, as imagine that ending if they had been able to keep that a secret.

 

[Bucky]

Spoiler

When the lights came on there were tears in the audience.  That's new for a Bond movie.

 

I thought that when he was infected, the tragedy would be never seeing Madeline and his daughter again.  But then I realized it would pass on and pass on and pass on.  

 

It's cool in its own way and sets up more jeopardy for the reboot.

 

Major spoilers above ^

 

First two thirds were atmospheric, funny, beautiful and full of tension and risk.  The last third bewildering.  Part Call of Duty, part 1970s volcano lair, part my buttocks have given up. 

 

Fabulous though.  Fabulous.

 

I felt sad that when Casino Royale kicked this thing off Blu-ray was the way I'd enjoy it all again.  Today I was left pondering which digital video service is going to last longest.

[Bucky]

Also, Paloma was a great new character and outrageously saucy.  

[Pob]

I'm someone who loves Casino Royale (because I love the Bourne trilogy and similar more grounded spy fare), but did not like Skyfall at all because I hate it when films feel like they don't need to make sense as long as there are regular action scenes. Will I like this?

[Festoon]

I think recent Bond films just don't have a plot, really, and are just a sequence of cool scenes stuck together.

 

And I don't give a fuck about that.

[Zio]

50 minutes ago, Pob said:

I'm someone who loves Casino Royale (because I love the Bourne trilogy and similar more grounded spy fare), but did not like Skyfall at all because I hate it when films feel like they don't need to make sense as long as there are regular action scenes. Will I like this?

 

I preferred it to Casino Royale (though that's my second favourite of the Craig-era movies). I do like Skyfall, but I acknowledge it's plot doesn't hold up to any scrutiny at all. I've only seen No Time To Die once so far, but I feel confident it holds up at least as well as any of the other Bond movies.

 

I will say it calls upon some of the more traditional aspects of Bond, like with a bit of a pantomime villain and a world-ending plot. The villain was maybe a bit undercooked, but much better than Dominic Greene in QoS, or Blofeld in SPECTRE, and whilst he's not as over-dramatically evil like Silva is in Skyfall, his scheme at least doesn't rely entirely on prescience and luck.

 

It's still a Bond movie, at the end of the day. I love Bond movies though, and was really impressed by what I saw last night.

[Nick R]

I liked this a lot. I'm quite satisfied with this as a conclusion to Craig's time in the role. Although I predict that like Skyfall, I'll begin to find the more dubious plot mechanics more bothersome over time, when it's separated from the hype of its release as an Event.

 

Biggest criticism:

 

Spoiler

Rami Malek's villain was the weakest aspect of the film.  I note that this makes the third Bond film in a row where the bad guy hasn't been properly introduced until halfway through the film, which I think contributes to that.

 

Craig Bond ranking:

 

Casino Royale

Skyfall

No Time to Die

The Something of Boris

SPECTRE

 

... though if judged specifically by action, I'd put Skyfall and NTTD above CR. (Rewatching CR the other day, its action was a lot choppier than I remembered, even in the otherwise brilliant Madagascar opening - though still far clearer than QOS.)

 

NTTD's action:

 

Spoiler

Loved the forest fog sequence, and the car chase in the long pre-title section.

 

I liked the pseudo long-take action sequence - in a stairwell, like Atomic Blonde.

 

In this film, more than any other, they really emphasise the idea that Bond is an action hero who can stand straight upright in a gunfight and all the bullets will miraculously miss him! He doesn't have to squat behind cover in a military combat pose, unlike, say, Solid Snake or John Wick. (Ana de Armas has a moment in her gunfight where an overhead shot shows her efficiently taking out some goons lying on the ground, in a very John Wick sort of way!)

 

Mission: Impossible comparisons:

 

Spoiler

SPECTRE shared a number of things with the same year's Mission: Impossible Rogue Nation. (e.g. both IMF and the Double-O programme being threatened with being shut down due to political manoeuvring; the novelty of capturing the villain - in London! - instead of killing him.)
        
With that comparison on my mind after rewatching SPECTRE yesterday, I couldn't help but think that No Time To Die is like a combination of Mission: Impossible 2 (plot revolving around a moustachioed scientist working on a viral bioweapon) and M:I Fallout (bringing back the previous film's villain, who was kept alive, and still indirectly orchestrating things despite being imprisoned; the hero reuniting with a lover he hasn't seen in years).

 

Random comments:

 

Spoiler

Speaking of the scientist character: we can't have the audience questioning if there was anything morally good about him. I mean, this is the guy who took out everyone in SPECTRE, which was a good thing, right? So right at the end, let's throw in a couple of lines to make him racist, just so that everyone watching is absolutely sure that there's no moral ambiguity and 007 (the new one) was completely justified in killing him.

 

Re-designating your agents' code numbers immediately before their big mission sounds like a good way to get confusing radio communications. (I think they stuck to just saying "Bond" instead of "007" after that, anyway?)

 

Blofeld's henchman's eyeball: inspired by GoldenEye Rogue Agent?

 

Bond getting the deathtrap spotlight on him in the SPECTRE party, followed by the immediate reversal, was a great twist on the the traditional SPECTRE killing of underlings, which I found absolutely delightful! Well, I would have found it delightful - but the real-life pandemic made it a bit uncomfortable to take joy from the prospect of releasing a virus. (I don't think that the film had introduced the virus/nanobot distinction at that point in the film? And I wonder if the film was changed much during its pandemic delay, to place the emphasis away from a virus and towards nanobots?)

 

Ana de Armas was not in it enough.

 

Craig's Bond never got to go up against Russians, but setting the finale in a Soviet missile silo was an acceptable substitute.

 

The fact that the island mission could lead to political/military consequences from the Russians, Japanese, and Americans was presented as a escalation of stakes - but then it turned out that nothing came of that. At one point I wondered if it was going to end with those other countries being tricked into launching the missile strike on the island themselves, so that MI6 could disavow all involvement.

 

[makkuwata]

I really enjoyed this, but there were a number of set pieces that were set up with a narrative briefing on what happens next and while sitting through the spectacle I realised I’d rather be playing it.

 

Good one to go out on.

[Nick R]

On 30/09/2021 at 15:50, smithstock said:

I saw No Time To Die this morning...

 

Fairly Major Spoilers

  Hide contents

 

 

Major Spoilers

  Hide contents

How on earth was Saffin NOT Dr. No?

 

- Links to SPECTRE

- Brutalist isolated factory

- 1950s/60s era equipment

- He has a zen garden

- He gets called "Doctor"

- Dangerous water and protective outfits

- His outfit

- Broken arm

- The number of times Bond says "No" towards the climax

 

I'm actually really annoyed that it wasn't confirmed in the film, especially after the hasty reveal of Blofeld in the previous entry, but I've since read that the director confirmed he isn't? Just seems a bit weird to have almost a carbon copy of a previous villain in everything but name and backstory (though I suppose that could also be said about a few villains) - though much more on the nose.

 

Also, was I seeing things? Bond was under ice in one of the trailers, that didn't happen in the movie. Was that likely something cut from the movie but done for misdirection?

 

 

 

Your spelling of "Saffin" (it's one F in the film) has just made me realise how similar it is to Pierce Bronhom's Taffin!  All together now, everyone say the line...

 

 

 

On your Major Spoilers:

 

Spoiler

I had heard the rumour/fan theory that the "No" in the title was going to be used to give the film a Doctor No twist, and the dot pattern in the transition to the opening titles really made me think they were going that way. And then there was a shot of a pile of something on the jetty by Bond's home in Jamaica, which made me wonder if that was meant to be guano, a substance that's very prominent in the plot of the Dr No novel! (But that turned out to be Felix's cigar ash.)

 

And in the silo base at the end, I think there's a shot of a ceiling window that looked reminiscent of this:

 

 

I suppose if they had made the villain Dr No, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd have to present it as a big, disguised revelation like Oberhauser/Blofeld or John Harrison/Khan. They could have called his character Julius No from the very start, without any element of mystery. However since Fleming's Dr No was Chinese, and played in yellowface in the original film, perhaps giving the role to an Egyptian American might have prompted uncomfortable questions about racebending. So they made him an original character instead.

 

As it turned out, the villainy was more You Only Live Twice than Dr No: the idea of an island near Japan housing a garden of poisonous plants is taken directly from that book. Except in that story, it's owned by Blofeld.

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Nick R said:

 

Random comments:

 

  Hide contents

Speaking of the scientist character: we can't have the audience questioning if there was anything morally good about him. I mean, this is the guy who took out everyone in SPECTRE, which was a good thing, right? So right at the end, let's throw in a couple of lines to make him racist, just so that everyone watching is absolutely sure that there's no moral ambiguity and 007 (the new one) was completely justified in killing him.

 

Re-designating your agents' code numbers immediately before their big mission sounds like a good way to get confusing radio communications. (I think they stuck to just saying "Bond" instead of "007" after that, anyway?)

 

 

Spoiler

But he took out SPECTRE under Safin's orders. Taking out one bad guy at the will of another bad guy doesn't make you good.

 

I thought her suddenly telling them to give Bond back 007 out of nowhere was really weird. There didn't really seem to be any motivation for her to do that. Up to then it was quite the opposite with her practically rubbing it in his face.

 

[Waggo]

Thinking about the film again today after watching it last night, and the one thought that has particularly stuck with me is:

 

Spoiler

What an absolute timeless classic 'We Have All The Time In The World' really is.  I mean I have always known it was good, but that is the first time I have ever heard it on a big cinema sound system and it was awseome.  Got to be a top contender for best Bond Theme surely.

 

[Triple A]

Absolutely loved this.

 

Couple of niggles that immediately spring to mind below:

- The bit in the lab with the traitor, Hugh Dennis and the inquiry woman from The Thick Of It - twas total bullshit that he was taking such sensitive calls in front of teammates - quite a lengthy call they didn’t do anything about?  Yes they were in earshot, I won't have a word otherwise.  And I lolled when he copied that data onto USB as if there wouldn’t be protocol to prevent that sort of thing; I get that Bond is meant to be campy and exaggerated etc. at times but come on.  Some other weird tonal shifting in that section broke immersion further still.

- Ana De Armas’s character was awesome but not in it enough.  Maybe setting her up for future series films?

 

Apart from that, wow.  I went in expecting mid tier at most and this was one of my all time Bond movies for sure.  Very excited at future potential.

[Gabe]

Just back from seeing this and I really liked it and feel it was a really fitting end for the Craig run. There were lots of little nods to the whole franchise (music that has been used in previous films, for example) and I liked the way they introduced the way to carry the series on. 

 

I'll spoiler some thoughts once I've read what others have said, but yeah, really enjoyable.

 

Edit:

Spoiler

Where to start? Well, in reverse - bold move, killing him. I wonder if Craig had any input on that? I was instantly thinking of The Rock during the end bit, but I still found it quite touching.

 

The big bad was fairly anonymous, but you what, I didn't mind because there was enough going on to keep me engaged that I didn't really need an evil mastermind plastered all over the film.

 

I thought the 'It's just a number' was a good way to tell the audience that, yes, this really is this Bond's last outing but the role will continue.

 

Was sad to see Felix go, but I guess this film was about clearing house to a degree and it set the tone for Bond's fate too.

 

I liked Nomi's introduction, I thought that was a good way to introduce the prospect of real change in the franchise without any fuss, even if we don't see her again.

 

One thing that seemed to be pointed out by critics was that it was confusing - but I didn't think so and my partner, who has only seen Casino Royale, found it easy to follow too. I also thought that Craig looked so much more relaxed in this just from his mannerisms - helped too by a script that allowed a little more fun that in the previous two films (take his conversations with Felix, for example).

 

What does the future hold then? Somebody above mentioned a reboot of the series, but is that an official line? I don't see the need for that, given they have a nice little assembled supporting cast in place, with Q, Moneypenny and M, but I guess it depends on what direction they want to go now.

 

This is the first Bond whose end I've seen in 'real time' (I only ever saw 3 of Brosnan's films and never saw Dalton's in the cinema) so it feels a little bit poignant. Craig's reign, for me, is ultimately a disappointment. I thought CR and QoS were great, and he absolutely looked the part (I still think the sorting his cuffs on the breaking-apart train in QoS is wonderfully stylish and cool), but then you had the long gap between QoS and Skyfall and he just looked tired by then (I know he was always quite vocal about hating the PR stuff and physical training he had to do) - plus I hated that and Spectre for lots of reasons. Then he bounces back in his final appearance with such grace that, were it not for the extra miles on the body you'd think he'd be good for another few cracks at it. I wonder if, had Skyfall, Spectre and this had released across, say, 6 years instead of the 13 since QoS, he would be so keen to move on?

As I said though, it's ultimately been a disappointment. The 'connected universe' stuff that Mendes tried to bring together was a mess which NTTD wisely tries to steer away from, but those two films were just so poor in terms of plot, characterisation and fun it drags the others down with it.

 

The world has changed a lot since Craig first put on the tux and how relevant Bond is to the world today is, I'm sure, a question that will generate a lot of words. I wonder if it is time for me to move on from the character too and, if so, NTTD was a pretty nice way to end it.

 

[jimmbob]

Just watched it. It was beautifully shot, excellent casting, stupid everything, lots of explosions, loved it. 
And Ana De Armas needs to be in everything.