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Best thing would be if the original PS4 get's a bit cheaper and the new one sells for the old price. That's probably wishful thinking though. 

Best thing would be if the original PS4 get's a bit cheaper and the new one sells for the old price. That's probably wishful thinking though. 

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46 minutes ago, TehStu said:

No, I appreciate that, but out of the gate they've got two hardware tiers to support: 1) something which isn't good enough and 2) something a bit better. To loss lead VR, I would have taken the bullet on something in the bundled box, so you're established for when the PS5 takes over with shed loads of power. 

 

Seems like you're expecting this to be a 5 year gen, which yeah, launching something in year 4 would be weird, but if it's another 8 year one then it makes sense.

 

Given even the annual games need three year dev cycles now, I think we've seen the back of 5 year generations - they would mean that basically every game studios make would have to be designed and released for a different device. Uncharted 4 done? Time to start on Last of Us 2 for PS5, etc.

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I'm less interested in VR now that Driveclub is now most likely not going to appear, and all the other games look like Studio London Presents: The Getaway: The Ride. If a new PS4 was compatible with all existing PS4 games, and there was some tangible, significant improvement to new and older games, then I can see myself picking one up just to have thre best version of games - like the 21st century equivalent of an A1200. 

 

It's slightly frustrating that it feels like we're still not seeing the best that the PS4 has to offer. Stuff like The Order and Shadowfall looked incredible (while not exactly being brilliant games), and it felt like there was a lot of potential yet to be tapped - we still haven't seen the PS4's equivalent of the original Gran Turismo, the quintessential game for the platform, where you saw what the console could really do. And now after two years, it's been superseded because it's not powerful enough. Bit of a shame. 

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VR could be the new "waggle" and "touch" for me. I'm sure the thing is fun, but I don't want every game to use it. Just a sofa and a traditional controller will do me for most things thanks. Otherwise its going to be sensory overload. Surely you can't use VR for too long without side effects?

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I think a little something called Uncharted 4 will show what the Playstation 4 can do. And the fact it's being made by the people who crafted Last of Us suggests its going to show what videogames as a story-telling medium can do, not just the console hardware. That title is just going to set benchmark after benchmark. You can feel it.

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8 minutes ago, barkbat said:

I think a little something called Uncharted 4 will show what the Playstation 4 can do. And the fact it's being made by the people who crafted Last of Us suggests its going to show what videogames as a story-telling medium can do, not just the console hardware. That title is just going to set benchmark after benchmark. You can feel it.

 

At 30fps though.  

The Definitive Edition with 60fps will launch on PS4K in 4K.   :)

 

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Well 30fps is all Uncharted 4 was expected to run at. You surely can't be getting pissed off that that a phantom version on a phantom console runs better than on the machine you actually own, and that you can play U4 on in just over a months time.

Edited by Stanley
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31 minutes ago, barkbat said:

I think a little something called Uncharted 4 will show what the Playstation 4 can do. And the fact it's being made by the people who crafted Last of Us suggests its going to show what videogames as a story-telling medium can do, not just the console hardware. That title is just going to set benchmark after benchmark. You can feel it.

I have never been bothered by videogames needing to be a story telling medium. Especially if it involves a load of dialogue, cut scenes and QTE events.

31 minutes ago, barkbat said:

I think a little something called Uncharted 4 will show what the Playstation 4 can do. And the fact it's being made by the people who crafted Last of Us suggests its going to show what videogames as a story-telling medium can do, not just the console hardware. That title is just going to set benchmark after benchmark. You can feel it.

I have never been bothered by videogames needing to be a story telling medium. Especially if it involves a load of dialogue, cut scenes and QTE events.

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The problem is that if this happens and is successful it'll be the thin end of the wedge on a movement towards shorter and shorter console cycles and an expectation that will eventually turn into a requirement to be paying out for hardware more and more often than we traditionally have when its come to console ownership in the past.

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15 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Well 30fps is all Uncharted 4 was expected to run at. You surely can't be getting pissed off that that a phantom version on a phantom console runs better than on the machine you actually own, and that you can play U4 on in just over a months time.

Not pissed off at all.  U4 is going to be fucking amazing.  I'm just in a little mood because I think my baby is going to be slightly neglected possibly in the near future in terms of how much effort goes on it as opposed to the 4K version.

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1 hour ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

Seems like you're expecting this to be a 5 year gen, which yeah, launching something in year 4 would be weird, but if it's another 8 year one then it makes sense.

 

Given even the annual games need three year dev cycles now, I think we've seen the back of 5 year generations - they would mean that basically every game studios make would have to be designed and released for a different device. Uncharted 4 done? Time to start on Last of Us 2 for PS5, etc.

 

Hadn't really thought about the length of this generation. What message does a PS4K now send to PSVR users? That was more the angle I was going for.

 

Not sure I follow the 3 year dev cycles thing. If they're putting out yearly games, doesn't that mean they have 3 studios? Because they can put out games annually now. Or are we talking about publishers with only 1 studio? I guess they could put out two during a 5 year generation, assuming they didn't wait for day 1 to start. Here's the thing though - ever increasing specs require increased investment in assets, which in turn require longer to create, which means you don't put out as many titles over a generation, which means you need multiple studios, which increases your costs enormously - how long until this all goes pop? A mid-generation hardware iteration isn't going to cure this, unless software MUST target the base PS4 and any performance gains are a bonus. Unless it looks awful in 4k, and you need to spend more time on higher resolution assets. *explode*

 

Anyway, if all this (in general) is true, Phil Spencer was on the money, then.

1 hour ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

Seems like you're expecting this to be a 5 year gen, which yeah, launching something in year 4 would be weird, but if it's another 8 year one then it makes sense.

 

Given even the annual games need three year dev cycles now, I think we've seen the back of 5 year generations - they would mean that basically every game studios make would have to be designed and released for a different device. Uncharted 4 done? Time to start on Last of Us 2 for PS5, etc.

 

Hadn't really thought about the length of this generation. What message does a PS4K now send to PSVR users? That was more the angle I was going for.

 

Not sure I follow the 3 year dev cycles thing. If they're putting out yearly games, doesn't that mean they have 3 studios? Because they can put out games annually now. Or are we talking about publishers with only 1 studio? I guess they could put out two during a 5 year generation, assuming they didn't wait for day 1 to start. Here's the thing though - ever increasing specs require increased investment in assets, which in turn require longer to create, which means you don't put out as many titles over a generation, which means you need multiple studios, which increases your costs enormously - how long until this all goes pop? A mid-generation hardware iteration isn't going to cure this, unless software MUST target the base PS4 and any performance gains are a bonus. Unless it looks awful in 4k, and you need to spend more time on higher resolution assets. *explode*

 

Anyway, if all this (in general) is true, Phil Spencer was on the money, then.

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57 minutes ago, Fury.HD said:

The problem is that if this happens and is successful it'll be the thin end of the wedge on a movement towards shorter and shorter console cycles and an expectation that will eventually turn into a requirement to be paying out for hardware more and more often than we traditionally have when its come to console ownership in the past.

 

I think this is kind of true, but at the same time it's basically the bed the gaming industry has made for itself.

 

There was a thing on Giantbomb recently from a teacher about how the kids at their school thought consoles were for old people and just played mobile, and looking at the big announcements from E3 this year being "nostalgia for growing up in the 90s", it's hard not to see that being right. For the longest time the industry was like "wouldn't it be amazing if everyone played games" and that happened, and almost immediately the narrative turned to seeing that as threatening and shutting that out.

 

So it's not exactly surprising that the industry is following in the footsteps of another product for kids consumed by an almost entirely an ageing fanbase - the model train industry, and seeing the only way to grow is to get more money from the same audience.

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53 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

So it's not exactly surprising that the industry is following in the footsteps of another product for kids consumed by an almost entirely an ageing fanbase - the model train industry, and seeing the only way to grow is to get more money from the same audience.

 

$60 season passes for $60 games. Battlefront is the future, beta tested on Star Wars fans.

53 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

So it's not exactly surprising that the industry is following in the footsteps of another product for kids consumed by an almost entirely an ageing fanbase - the model train industry, and seeing the only way to grow is to get more money from the same audience.

 

$60 season passes for $60 games. Battlefront is the future, beta tested on Star Wars fans.

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On 25/03/2016 at 8:17 PM, BruceBruce said:

With the way this is going, it seems like Sony and Microsoft may opt to do upgradable consoles next generation.  You start with a base console and can potentially either easily pull out parts and replace them or tack on new hardware.  This would allow them to cater to casual players who don't care about graphics, and for those who want better looking games or 60 fps can purchase the upgrades.

 

Then the generation after that, they basically just sell you a PC.

 

If you believe Phil Spencer, this most definitely is NOT happening. It's the Nintendo iterative portable idea, brought to home console but actually supported in shipping software in more than a half-hearted manner for once.

 

 

21 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Then there's the cluster-fuck of the PS3. Pushing Cell and Blu-Ray at the cost of an under powered GPU and half the RAM of the rival machine.. yet it still cost $900 to manufacture a single a machine!

 

But your complaints are factually wrong though. The Nvidia GPU is close on paper specs to the AMD GPU, it has some technical advantages over it even, but lacks the advanced unified stuff AMD had first, before Nvidia developed something similar (which sounds rather similar to the current situation between AMD and Nvidia), which would have been too late to include in the PS3 design, which launched later than originally planned as-is.

 

They both have the same total RAM, but due to the nature of the PS3, it's split into 2 seperate RAM pools as CELL needed expensive exotic RAM.

 

 

 

Shorter hardware refresh cycles without the problem of lack of BC and a new product to sell hopefully at a reasonable profit every few years, change the old unviable business model into something more viable. New console sold at full price and the old design cost reduced and sold at a lower price for LTTP owners.

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6 minutes ago, Garibaldi said:

Sony really need to clarify exactly what this bloody thing is, or they could find a fair few cancelled PSVR pre-orders in the very near future. 

 

But officially this doesn't even exist yet, we only know about it due to loose lips, and you know how the 2nd part of that phrase goes. The n3DS came out about 4 years after the 3DS, the DSi came out after a similar amount of time. If the consoles move to an iterative release schedule, they'll be on a 3-4 year update cycle. The PS4 will be ~3 years old at least by the time PS4K is a real shipping product. It'll all be fine if developers primarily target PS4 as the primary development platform, with the PS4K receiving a free performance boost naturally. Most of the fears would seem to be based on the n3DS situation, where the newer machine becomes the base target and the old machine makes do or gets left out.

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I do wonder whether thngs like this sometimes get leaked just so they can monitor the reaction and gauge public interest in the concept before committing to it. 

It will be. Governments do it all the time with new policies too.

What's depressing is I haven't seen any gaming websites kick up any sort of real fuss about it other than to report it as something inevitably happening.

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I'm honestly having difficulty with some of the outcry I keep reading. This is just like An iPhone, PC or even a 3DS. There are a base version and an enhanced version. 

 

If if it works as suggested I.e. All games have to work on the base version. That there are no enchanced version exclusives, then what's the problem?

 

if you want 4K media Blue Ray et al, if you have a bit more money to spend then you can buy this enhanced version. As a side effect you will get a bump in fps on some games. 

 

if all games must still apply to base version TRCs then it will have literally no effect on the game experience for everyone who already owns a. Ps4. 

 

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ive no interest in an incremental upscaling upgrade to my PS4 experience. For my money this leak is detrimental to the brand, in that it says that the current PS4 isn't up to snuff for VR bar 'experiences' and the usual stuff you see in first gen software.  Plus the fact I've no 4K ready TV or have ever felt the need to watch a 4K film. 4K looks great but the software isn't going to be there.

 

Id rather wait a bit for a true generational leap that will drive everything forward than an offering that only seems to be needed by a small majority of users. 

 

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1 hour ago, Soo Denim said:

This is just like An iPhone, PC or even a 3DS. There are a base version and an enhanced version.

 

So will it be like an iPhone, where successive upgrades render older games you've paid for unplayable and they might or might not get fixed depending on whether the developers are still around to patch them?

 

Or will it be like a PC where you have to tweak endlessly to coax older games into running?

 

Or will it be like the 3DS, where stuff like Hyrule Warriors technically works on the older console but is in actual fact a massive downgrade and not necessarily something you'd actually want to play?

 

I'd bet on the last of these, but none of these scenarios sound very appealing.

 

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4 minutes ago, macosx said:

ive no interest in an incremental upscaling upgrade to my PS4 experience. For my money this leak is detrimental to the brand, in that it says that the current PS4 isn't up to snuff for VR bar 'experiences' and the usual stuff you see in first gen software.  Plus the fact I've no 4K ready TV or have ever felt the need to watch a 4K film. 4K looks great but the software isn't going to be there.

 

Id rather wait a bit for a true generational leap that will drive everything forward than an offering that only seems to be needed by a small majority of users. 

 

 

So you are just like me. You have a PS4 and no 4K tv. Just ignore it, it's existence has literally zero impact on your PS4 and gaming experience. 

 

If if in the future you want 4K Netflix or your PS4 breaks and you need a replacement it might be an idea to think about it. 

 

But it otherwise ignore it, it does not effect you in the slightest!

4 minutes ago, macosx said:

ive no interest in an incremental upscaling upgrade to my PS4 experience. For my money this leak is detrimental to the brand, in that it says that the current PS4 isn't up to snuff for VR bar 'experiences' and the usual stuff you see in first gen software.  Plus the fact I've no 4K ready TV or have ever felt the need to watch a 4K film. 4K looks great but the software isn't going to be there.

 

Id rather wait a bit for a true generational leap that will drive everything forward than an offering that only seems to be needed by a small majority of users. 

 

 

So you are just like me. You have a PS4 and no 4K tv. Just ignore it, it's existence has literally zero impact on your PS4 and gaming experience. 

 

If if in the future you want 4K Netflix or your PS4 breaks and you need a replacement it might be an idea to think about it. 

 

But it otherwise ignore it, it does not effect you in the slightest!

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