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labarte
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I think you're letting your thoughts run wild here rafaqat. There will only be two versions of PS4 compared with the multiple and myriad PC configurations. I'd imagine PS4 games will continue to perform as they do now - at 1080p 30fps for the most part, with PS4.5 offering 4K upscaler and 60FPS. That's what I imagine people would buy one for. 

 

It won't be until PS5 before the base PS4 struggles. But that won't be until 2019/20 so you'd expect that from such old hardware. The fact it will run at all is better than what's gone before, and of course all your PS4 games will run on PS5 with improved performance.

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14 hours ago, BruceBruce said:

The console will feature newer hardware allowing for better game performance in previous PS4 titles, as well as better visual enhancements in newer titles.  And apparently the performance difference between consoles is "noticeable".

 

So basically what I said about Microsoft's forward compatibility plans, everybody is going the Nintendo portable route. The n3DS is basically the same thing, with a few visual/performance enhanced and one exclusive game so far. Zelda: Musou runs at 20fps on the 3DS, it actually performs better than the Wii U version on the n3DS.

 

A hacked n3DS also apparently allows you to use the same trick as the hacked PSP unlocked, allowing the faster CPU to be retroactively activated on 3DS games which weren't programmed with it in mind, fixing performance problems on some older games, much like a modded PSP allowed you do with the latent performance that Sony locked out at launch on all PSPs.

 

 

Sony were actually openly talking about this possibility last year it turns out, there is an interview with the Vice President of SCE, Masayasu Ito, in Japanese which mentions it, which explains why nobody really picked up on it until these PS4K rumours started.

 

http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999024/20151021121/

 

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13 hours ago, deerokus said:

As far as I can tell the whole reason we ended up with these somewhat underpowered systems in the first place was that there seemed to be a lack of faith in the market for new consoles, and fuck knows why they had that idea, because everyone was desperate for the long-overdue new systems. Now they swing the other way and seem to have misplaced faith in demand for a fresh new round of upgrades. 

 

 

I find the gaming industry quite confusing at the moment. PS4 is doing very well, outpacing even the PS2 and apparently breaking all sorts of sales records... and at the same time Sony is shutting down developers and replacing the console ridiculously early in its life? Meanwhile MS are trying to merge console and PC in such a way that when reading between the lines at times it almost sounds like they are thinking about getting out of consoles, and turning 'xbox' into a walled garden OS OEMS can use. Finally everyone still seems weirdly reticent to put many games out.

 

 

I think your interpretation of historical events is way off, the consoles you got are what is possible for that sort of price point, nothing more (you could argue some earlier hardware was even more of a bargain as it was sold at a significant discount to production cost). Tech advances rely on ever shrinking manufacturing nodes making it possible to deliver more power for the same cost, unfortunately that process is slowing and the anti-Moore's Law, Rock's Law ensures this will only get harder. So unless we see a paradigm shifting development soon, it ain't getting any better as rapidly as it did in the past. The mobile lot will run into the age old problem of battery tech being an intractable problem soon and advances will begin to slow there too, just as it has at home.

 

I notice you mention you don't actually own a current gen system but want one, which is probably the root cause of this concern about a possible newer, better iteration.

 

Everything else can be blamed on The Rising Cost of Games and the need to be a viable business unit of a multinational corporation, plus the PS2 had a staggered launch, it'll likely be back ahead of the PS4 very soon, it did close to peak Wii numbers after a few years on the market, a feat the PS4 has not managed to match so far.

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I read Intel are slowing down CPU development too, so perhaps PCs will slow a bit. They're extending the new features/die shrink 2 year cycle to new features/die shrink/power and other optimizations 3 year cycle, to get better returns on new tech. You hit some sort of wall with everything, eventually.

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PCs stopped evolving at much of a pace on the CPU side about 5 years ago, it's just taken this long for Intel to finally officially confirm it. The only reason the GPU side continues to march on is because they keep on building ever more expensive and power hungry and bigger chips on the same production nodes. Though Nvidia warned there is a problem with memory power usage recently so a wall is approaching even for GPU advancements.

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It will either be a ps4 with the same CPU/GPU but upgraded hdmi or it will be a ps4 with a slightly faster CPU and better GPU with upgraded hdmi, in terms of running games it will just mean devs will optimise for 2 configurations, it won't be the consopolypse it won't render everyone's ps4 useless, they won't have multiplayer games running at different frame rates but single player games might be different across revisions.

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Really do not want them to do this. Leave it another 2-3 years and then do PS5 please Sony. Bigger leap, but still BC with PS4.

Really do not want them to do this. Leave it another 2-3 years and then do PS5 please Sony. Bigger leap, but still BC with PS4.

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With the way this is going, it seems like Sony and Microsoft may opt to do upgradable consoles next generation.  You start with a base console and can potentially either easily pull out parts and replace them or tack on new hardware.  This would allow them to cater to casual players who don't care about graphics, and for those who want better looking games or 60 fps can purchase the upgrades.

 

Then the generation after that, they basically just sell you a PC.

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From that Digital Foundry article it seems very unlikely that games will be able to run in 4K, or have enough of a performance difference that developers will want to waste time chasing performance optimisations in two different versions. I think their "PS4, but with upscaling to 4K, and 4K media apps" prediction is by far the most likely. Maybe HDR output or other stuff in the 4K spec too.

From that Digital Foundry article it seems very unlikely that games will be able to run in 4K, or have enough of a performance difference that developers will want to waste time chasing performance optimisations in two different versions. I think their "PS4, but with upscaling to 4K, and 4K media apps" prediction is by far the most likely. Maybe HDR output or other stuff in the 4K spec too.

From that Digital Foundry article it seems very unlikely that games will be able to run in 4K, or have enough of a performance difference that developers will want to waste time chasing performance optimisations in two different versions. I think their "PS4, but with upscaling to 4K, and 4K media apps" prediction is by far the most likely. Maybe HDR output or other stuff in the 4K spec too.

From that Digital Foundry article it seems very unlikely that games will be able to run in 4K, or have enough of a performance difference that developers will want to waste time chasing performance optimisations in two different versions. I think their "PS4, but with upscaling to 4K, and 4K media apps" prediction is by far the most likely. Maybe HDR output or other stuff in the 4K spec too.

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I know we should be glad it's even here, but the forum's new multi-posting is irritating. It's like it died, was reanimated, but brought some of the scary darkness back with it.

 

I know we should be glad it's even here, but the forum's new multi-posting is irritating. It's like it died, was reanimated, but brought some of the scary darkness back with it.

 

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Personally I don't think Sony are intending to upset the traditional console life cycle. Whilst a redesign may be more powerful, I suspect that will be more of side benefit as opposed to the driving force: if you're going to rework a chip to shrink it to a more power-efficient form anyway, why not overclock it? That would be more of a performance buffer as opposed to a generational half-step.

 

The original PS4 spec will still be the target for developers. Will games fail to hit full 1080p or a stable framerate on launch hardware? Sure, as they have done since day one: that is our current reality, not some ramification of a hardware revision. Perhaps the newer model doesn't suffer from the same performance dips or is able to dial up a few quality sliders without negative consequence, but if those improvements are essentially free then what's to be gained from artificially limiting your hardware?

 

I think the actual impetus behind the revision will be the same as always: introduce a new form factor with additional features in order to a maintain a premium product line whilst lowering the price of entry on older hardware. Fundamentally it's the same as the Xbox 360 Elite — did people complain about that at the time? — albeit perhaps a more worthwhile upgrade as it'll likely have selling points beyond "it's black and probably won't melt".

 

As to those selling points, you avoid marketing a power increase as it risks consumer confusion. Better for that to be a silent benefit on top of more demonstrable feature improvements: bigger stock HDD, HDR and UHD Blu-ray support, a new encoder chip for 1080p60 RemotePlay, etc.

Edited by Aimless
Attack of the Clones
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2 hours ago, BruceBruce said:

With the way this is going, it seems like Sony and Microsoft may opt to do upgradable consoles next generation.  You start with a base console and can potentially either easily pull out parts and replace them or tack on new hardware.  This would allow them to cater to casual players who don't care about graphics, and for those who want better looking games or 60 fps can purchase the upgrades.

 

That sounds like some crazy future talk.

 

Memoryexpansionpak_box.jpg

 

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Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

 

etc

 

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45 minutes ago, deerokus said:

None of those things you listed as selling points would need them to talk to developers as they have been doing.

Naturally they'd be talking to developers to apprise them of architectural changes, including any additional horsepower.

 

My point is that I think any hardware advantage will essentially be a freebie of moving to a more efficient, cost effective chipset as opposed to a concerted effort to upset the console life cycle. Developers will be able to take advantage of the extra power because there's no benefit to not using it, but that does not make it the new standard for development: you target the machine 40+ million people own, just as you assume people have the stock HDD as opposed to an SSD.

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42 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

Fuck me this is getting worse and worse

 

Seems the same each time actually.

 

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Haven't really been keeping up with this thread but this showed up on GS today.

 

New PS4 Delivers "Ultra-High Definition Resolution Graphics," Report Says

Quote

 

Though Sony has yet to make an official announcement, the evidence for a more powerful PlayStation 4 console continues to mount. The Wall Street Journal today backed up what reports from Kotaku and Eurogamer said earlier: Sony is working on a new version of the PS4 that can handle "higher-end gaming experiences." This includes virtual reality, the site said, citing sources.

 

This new system, which will reportedly boast "enhanced graphics and power," will live alongside the existing PS4, with games working for both platforms, according to the WSJ.

 

"Existing PlayStation 4 owners would need to buy the new model to take full advantage of the enhanced graphics and power," it said. "Though it is likely that the current model and the coming one would share the same software catalog."

 

The WSJ also reports that the new console--which wasn't given a name but is apparently being referred to as the PS4 4K--will be announced before the October launch of PlayStation VR, sources said. The system will be able to power "ultra-high definition resolution graphics."

 

Sony itself has admitted that PlayStation VR, which is powered by the PS4, may be technically inferior to Oculus Rift and HTC Vive, which run on higher-end PCs. The improved PS4 would help close the gap, the WSJ said.

 

It's also claimed in the WSJ report that Sony's ambition with the new system is "to capture gamers willing to pay for a richer gaming environment, including a high-end virtual-reality experience."

 

Analysts quoted in the WSJ's story today said continuing to offer the standard PS4 alongside the more powerful unit will help Sony on its path to giving players--casual and hardcore alike--more options in the PlayStation ecosystem.

 

A price for the new, more powerful PS4 was not mentioned in this report.

Sony may not be alone in releasing new gaming hardware. Recently, Xbox boss Phil Spencer teased that, "You'll actually see us come out with new hardware capability during a generation allowing the same games to run backward and forward compatible."

 

Traditionally, console gamers have to wait many years for new hardware. For example, the PlayStation 3 was released in 2006, with the PS4 coming in 2013. The Xbox 360 launched in 2005, while the Xbox One came out in 2013.

 

If this report is accurate, including the pre-October announcement, one possibly venue for the reveal could be E3 in June.

 

 

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I've got a hard time getting my head around this. Surely the sensible thing here would be a hardware revision (PSfour, if not 4k) for media playback and inclusion of the PSVR stuff (if cost effective to give it to people who won't buy the headset)? Why would Sony otherwise need to invest early in new hardware? Unless their approach to bridge the gap to the "low latency streaming utopia" is to iterate the PS4, rather than the generic framework approach of Xbox.

I've got a hard time getting my head around this. Surely the sensible thing here would be a hardware revision (PSfour, if not 4k) for media playback and inclusion of the PSVR stuff (if cost effective to give it to people who won't buy the headset)? Why would Sony otherwise need to invest early in new hardware? Unless their approach to bridge the gap to the "low latency streaming utopia" is to iterate the PS4, rather than the generic framework approach of Xbox.

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On 18/03/2016 at 6:10 PM, Stanley said:

Yeah it's been covered on a few other threads. I can't see it happening, it's just too much of a leap.

 

On 18/03/2016 at 6:57 PM, HarryBizzle said:

I'd like to seem them get hardware which can provide a solid 4K experience in there, without even considering how stupid the price would be.

 

On 18/03/2016 at 11:02 PM, Mr. Gerbik said:

Surely there's no way any kind of upgrade, even if it ends up costing something stupid like a few thousand quid*, will allow current PS4 games (or future PS4 games that are of a similar graphical quality) to run in native 4K.

 

 

*FOUR extra jobs for 4K!


I remember similar claims on the PS2, they are putting a DVD drive in it type madness. And the PS3 again with a Blu-Ray drive, what?!!

 

But I couldn't care less about 4K, a slightly superior quality image over what you already have, unless you have a TV over 55" or use a projector. 

 

I'd echo what has been said before, get 1080p/60fps working first. Give it a typical hooky name like "Gaming60" or some typical marketing slogan like TrueHD and 4k. Punters, especially gaming punters, aren;t thick. They have been putting up with this stuff for years.

On 18/03/2016 at 6:10 PM, Stanley said:

Yeah it's been covered on a few other threads. I can't see it happening, it's just too much of a leap.

 

On 18/03/2016 at 6:57 PM, HarryBizzle said:

I'd like to seem them get hardware which can provide a solid 4K experience in there, without even considering how stupid the price would be.

 

On 18/03/2016 at 11:02 PM, Mr. Gerbik said:

Surely there's no way any kind of upgrade, even if it ends up costing something stupid like a few thousand quid*, will allow current PS4 games (or future PS4 games that are of a similar graphical quality) to run in native 4K.

 

 

*FOUR extra jobs for 4K!


I remember similar claims on the PS2, they are putting a DVD drive in it type madness. And the PS3 again with a Blu-Ray drive, what?!!

 

But I couldn't care less about 4K, a slightly superior quality image over what you already have, unless you have a TV over 55" or use a projector. 

 

I'd echo what has been said before, get 1080p/60fps working first. Give it a typical hooky name like "Gaming60" or some typical marketing slogan like TrueHD and 4k. Punters, especially gaming punters, aren;t thick. They have been putting up with this stuff for years.

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While a more powerful PS4 might support 4K output I don't see that as the biggest selling point.

It's main advantage will be to allow higher frame rate and graphical goodies at 1080p and crucially with the VR headset.

 

If they've tested the headset with the current console and realised it's not up to the job of running top flight graphics in 3d VR then having a PS4.5 makes quite a bit of sense. What's a standard console now? £250 or thereabouts?
Drop the "old" model to £200 and bring in the new one at £350 and they'll be selling huge amounts in the run up to Christmas.

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13 minutes ago, TehStu said:

I've got a hard time getting my head around this. Surely the sensible thing here would be a hardware revision (PSfour, if not 4k) for media playback and inclusion of the PSVR stuff (if cost effective to give it to people who won't buy the headset)? Why would Sony otherwise need to invest early in new hardware?

 

Because VR needs more power than the PS4 has, and they don't want to be left behind in what could be a big new chunk of the industry.

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Announced before October 2016 matches the GAF source who said it would be announced this year.

 

The WSJ also reports that the new console--which wasn't given a name but is apparently being referred to as the PS4 4K--will be announced before the October launch of PlayStation VR, sources said.

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7 hours ago, englishbob said:

I remember similar claims on the PS2, they are putting a DVD drive in it type madness. And the PS3 again with a Blu-Ray drive, what?!!

 

But I couldn't care less about 4K, a slightly superior quality image over what you already have, unless you have a TV over 55" or use a projector. 

 

I'd echo what has been said before, get 1080p/60fps working first. Give it a typical hooky name like "Gaming60" or some typical marketing slogan like TrueHD and 4k. Punters, especially gaming punters, aren;t thick. They have been putting up with this stuff for years.

 

eurgh, yeah. 

I'd love the 1080p standard to stick around and for developers to push for great looking games with stable frame-rates. 30 or 60 fps depending on application but those framerates stable, with no fluctuation. 

 

This is a bit of a shame, as it once again seems like Sony as a bigger company are going to use their biggest success to push other shit. PS2 and DVD was a success but may be a reason why the console was a little anaemic compared to the competition at the time. First to market with a new drive that must have pushed up the manufacturing costs. Then there's the cluster-fuck of the PS3. Pushing Cell and Blu-Ray at the cost of an under powered GPU and half the RAM of the rival machine.. yet it still cost $900 to manufacture a single a machine! 

 

The PS4 is a lean gaming machine, and VR seems to have enough substance to make it more than just another gimmick. 

A new machine seems like a bad strategic move when the current is selling so well. It makes no sense, other than to push 4K ready Sony TVs. 

 

...I'm totally gonna buy it though. 

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1 hour ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

Because VR needs more power than the PS4 has, and they don't want to be left behind in what could be a big new chunk of the industry.

 

No, I appreciate that, but out of the gate they've got two hardware tiers to support: 1) something which isn't good enough and 2) something a bit better. To loss lead VR, I would have taken the bullet on something in the bundled box, so you're established for when the PS5 takes over with shed loads of power. 

 

Speaking of which, if VR takes hold, perhaps we'll see less of a "cheap PC" approach to the PS5. 

Edited by TehStu
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