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2 hours ago, BruceBruce said:

You guys don't have to buy a PS4.5 if you wanna just keep your PS4.  All new games will still work on both supposedly.  They'll just have higher settings on the 4.5..

 

It shouldn't make you upset unless they decide to forgo game creation on the PS4 and put all development towards 4.5, which they said they wouldn't do.. so you're fine.  If it irks you that someone will be playing the same game with slightly better visuals, perhaps I shouldn't tell you about the PC Master Race, as they've been at it for years.

 

That's exactly WHY a lot of us don't get into PC gaming. There's not that distraction that things could look better if you just paid more money.

 

That nice feeling that you're playing the latest and greatest goes hand in hand with this industry and Sony know it. People here are right, they really will be pissing a lot of goodwill away.

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There's also a huge problem with multiplayer games. If there is a situation where a number of players have higher resolution feeds and better framerates, it's kind of inevitable that most of the big online shooters will have to have seperate communities to keep it fair and stop the tantrums. It will harm online console gaming in the long run and create a class system that will make random interactions even less pleasant than right now.

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Yeah that doesn't make any sense barkbat - most networking is based on "ticks" which are entirely framerate independent, Call of Duty for example is the 60fps posterchild, yet it only sends data to everyone else at 30fps, even if you run it at 144fps on PC.

 

Also no one cares about resolution since DICE complained that widescreen monitors were cheating back in 2005.

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1 hour ago, barkbat said:

There's also a huge problem with multiplayer games. If there is a situation where a number of players have higher resolution feeds and better framerates, it's kind of inevitable that most of the big online shooters will have to have seperate communities to keep it fair and stop the tantrums. It will harm online console gaming in the long run and create a class system that will make random interactions even less pleasant than right now.

 

That situation has existed for years (and still exists) where some people were/are using 720p panels and others 1080p. Until quite recently my main TV was a 768p Pioneer. The majority of my gaming using the Pioneer was on Gears and CoD4/MW2 multiplayer.

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I don't care about other people having better hardware. I'm more bothered that Dev focus will go on the latest hardware version and the older versions will be seen as OK to have a few areas that chug because it's older hardware.

Had they waited and given the current ps4 more time I'd be more than happy with a new PlayStation in 5 years time that was backwards compatible and played older games at a better framerate etc. 2 years before my console is superseded is shit. The reason why I'm ok paying more for my games than on PC is that my hardware costs are fixed. Once we start down the cycle of a 2 year refresh I may as well just buy a PC with cheaper games.

To whoever says "you don't have to buy a ps4.5", well actually you eventually will have to as more games target that as the norm.

We need to express our displeasure so the console manufacturers don't go down this route of a new console every two years. That's a proper shitty future.

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1 hour ago, barkbat said:

There's also a huge problem with multiplayer games. If there is a situation where a number of players have higher resolution feeds and better framerates, it's kind of inevitable that most of the big online shooters will have to have seperate communities to keep it fair and stop the tantrums. It will harm online console gaming in the long run and create a class system that will make random interactions even less pleasant than right now.

 

Too late for that.

 

I'm certain that there has never been an even ground online, be it someone with a more responsive TV or better internet connection or clans going up against randoms. I don't see this as going to the top of the list of problems when it comes to enjoying a console's online experience. Microsoft already introduced an Elite controller to provide an advantage.

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15 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

I don't care about other people having better hardware. I'm more bothered that Dev focus will go on the latest hardware version and the older versions will be seen as OK to have a few areas that chug because it's older hardware.

Had they waited and given the current ps4 more time I'd be more than happy with a new PlayStation in 5 years time that was backwards compatible and played older games at a better framerate etc. 2 years before my console is superseded is shit. The reason why I'm ok paying more for my games than on PC is that my hardware costs are fixed. Once we start down the cycle of a 2 year refresh I may as well just buy a PC with cheaper games.

To whoever says "you don't have to buy a ps4.5", well actually you eventually will have to as more games target that as the norm.

We need to express our displeasure so the console manufacturers don't go down this route of a new console every two years. That's a proper shitty future.

It's three years, or will be by the time these new machines come out.

 

To be honest we should have expected it. These machines were sold at a profit from day one. And they're cheap. The PS3 cost almost £100 more seven years earlier. Accounting for inflation the PS4 cost pretty much half that.

 

At the end of the day it's a business and technology drives it. If they can make more powerful hardware cheaply enough without having to invest further in any serious R&D themselves, they will.

 

We are in a market in which people upgrade their phones, computers, tablets etc. yearly or every two years. Now that the console makers have us all locked into their account systems they want a part of that market, with premium prices to match for the newer models.

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Some of you guys are thinking way too far out.

upgradability has been a thing for the mobile industry for years.

i have no expectation that any performance enhancement will be past 5-10% if that.

i don't even think there will be any upgrade other than bringin the unit into the 4K and VR domain.

 

It won't break compatibility and it won't split the user base. Sony can't afford to do that, publishers don't care unless they make money. They're already down scaling games on a graphical stand point to fit Xbox one in a lot of cases.

 

all your fears are nothing to worry about.

Some of you guys are thinking way too far out.

upgradability has been a thing for the mobile industry for years.

i have no expectation that any performance enhancement will be past 5-10% if that.

i don't even think there will be any upgrade other than bringin the unit into the 4K and VR domain.

 

It won't break compatibility and it won't split the user base. Sony can't afford to do that, publishers don't care unless they make money. They're already down scaling games on a graphical stand point to fit Xbox one in a lot of cases.

 

all your fears are nothing to worry about.

Some of you guys are thinking way too far out.

upgradability has been a thing for the mobile industry for years.

i have no expectation that any performance enhancement will be past 5-10% if that.

i don't even think there will be any upgrade other than bringin the unit into the 4K and VR domain.

 

It won't break compatibility and it won't split the user base. Sony can't afford to do that, publishers don't care unless they make money. They're already down scaling games on a graphical stand point to fit Xbox one in a lot of cases.

 

all your fears are nothing to worry about.

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3 hours ago, Boozy The Clown said:

All I know is that some fucker that likes negging all my posts is eating his hat. I hope it's made of jaggy wool.

 

Fuck you, the negging is for the continual childish shit-posting in most discussion threads. It's like wading through a sea of moronic banality and I'm not alone in feeling fatigued by it all. But so fuck, ignore options are there for a reason. 

3 hours ago, Boozy The Clown said:

All I know is that some fucker that likes negging all my posts is eating his hat. I hope it's made of jaggy wool.

 

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People keep mentioning the mobile phone upgrade cycle but that really only exists because of 2 year contracts. Only the hardestcore actually buy new phones outright at the same regularity, surely?

 

Consoles don't have that and in any case are closer in some ways to appliances than phones. You expect to buy one and have  it last a while, let's say 5 years.

 

 

 

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This has always worked really well in the past. So it will no doubt be a rip roaring success.

 

I just got a PS4. Won't be getting the 4.5. And when the PS5 comes out I will probably wait till like the last year of it's life cycle before getting one. It'll be nice and cheap by then with a nice library of games all available for peanuts, and I'll be able to get the definitive version of the console and not have to worry about needing to upgrade somewhere down the line.

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Maybe they expect us all to get second jobs again if they expect to be able to sell £350-£400 VR kits and then an updated PS4 in the space of a couple of months.

Maybe they expect us all to get second jobs again if they expect to be able to sell £350-£400 VR kits and then an updated PS4 in the space of a couple of months.

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50 minutes ago, deerokus said:

People keep mentioning the mobile phone upgrade cycle but that really only exists because of 2 year contracts. Only the hardestcore actually buy new phones outright at the same regularity, surely?

 

Consoles don't have that and in any case are closer in some ways to appliances than phones. You expect to buy one and have  it last a few years.

 

 

 

What about ipads/tablets don't people normally buy those outright? In any case who's to say there won't be subs models for consoles in the future? 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Raoull duke said:

This has always worked really well in the past. So it will no doubt be a rip roaring success.

 

I just got a PS4. Won't be getting the 4.5. And when the PS5 comes out I will probably wait till like the last year of it's life cycle before getting one. It'll be nice and cheap by then with a nice library of games all available for peanuts, and I'll be able to get the definitive version of the console and not have to worry about needing to upgrade somewhere down the line.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of this. These upgrades don't stop. 

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Why other than the unbeatable feeling of "this could be so much better if I just.....reach....for.....my......wallet"

 

this surely isn't a bad thing at all providing nothing this gen Requires anything other than a base model PS4 to run.

 

theres no draw backs. You do t have to buy it, developers don't have to support it.

 

This is all of course if it works out the way everyone is thinking, which I am very sceptical of.

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Another difference other than subs that differentiates the mobile phone model from consoles is how hard the hardware gets pushed. On console the devs push the hardware. Way more than they do on mobile (with the odd exception here and there) . So mobile gaming generally works across more hardware variants.

There's real incentive for devs to concentrate on pushing the shinies on console and PC since that's what sells a lot of games. Mobile games don't have that same. pressure.

So how do you think this would be any different to your iPhone? You keep using your PS4 and upgrade when you feel it's worth it.

See my post above. Mobile gaming is VERY different to console/PC gaming.

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43 minutes ago, Stanley said:

What about ipads/tablets don't people normally buy those outright? In any case who's to say there won't be subs models for consoles in the future? 

 

 

 

Bad example, iPad sales have been on a downward trend for a while as Apple and tech companies have discovered people are happy enough with tablets they already have as they fulfill their needs satisfactorily (usually web browsing and watching videos) and aren't bothering to upgrade.

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1 hour ago, deerokus said:

People keep mentioning the mobile phone upgrade cycle but that really only exists because of 2 year contracts. Only the hardestcore actually buy new phones outright at the same regularity, surely?

 

 

 

It's not all that uncommon for people to buy a new iPhone each year then sell the old one just before the next hardware launch. Time it right and use a decent sim-only tariff and you don't end up spending too much more to get a new handset each year compared to someone on a regular 2 year contract.

 

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4 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

Yeah that doesn't make any sense barkbat - most networking is based on "ticks" which are entirely framerate independent, Call of Duty for example is the 60fps posterchild, yet it only sends data to everyone else at 30fps, even if you run it at 144fps on PC.

 

Also no one cares about resolution since DICE complained that widescreen monitors were cheating back in 2005.

Ah - didn't realise it worked like that. Apologies. Problem solved.

 

Next problem - publishers will push the premium versions of games for review, and it will become ever more difficult to ascertain performance differences between the versions. As an example - it is amazing how quickly sites stopped giving info for PS3/360 versions of multiformat games once the PS4/XB1 became the lead versions.

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8 minutes ago, Harsin said:

 

Bad example, iPad sales have been on a downward trend for a while as Apple and tech companies have discovered people are happy enough with tablets they already have as they fulfill their needs satisfactorily (usually web browsing and watching videos) and aren't bothering to upgrade.

Fair enough. I think the principle remains though, and these console upgrades would be every two to three years rather than 12 monthly.

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17 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

Another difference other than subs that differentiates the mobile phone model from consoles is how hard the hardware gets pushed. On console the devs push the hardware. Way more than they do on mobile (with the odd exception here and there) . So mobile gaming generally works across more hardware variants.

 

There's real incentive for devs to concentrate on pushing the shinies on console and PC since that's what sells a lot of games. Mobile games don't have that same. pressure.

See my post above. Mobile gaming is VERY different to console/PC gaming.

 

PC games generally scale well across a huge variety of hardware specs, so having a shinier Xbox or PS version shouldn't be a problem provided dev performance testing targets the lowest 'current gen' spec?

 

1 minute ago, barkbat said:

Ah - didn't realise it worked like that. Apologies. Problem solved.

 

Next problem - publishers will push the premium versions of games for review, and it will become ever more difficult to ascertain performance differences between the versions. As an example - it is amazing how quickly sites stopped giving info for PS3/360 versions of multiformat games once the PS4/XB1 became the lead versions.

 

Digital Foundry would be all over it.

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It's not all that uncommon for people to buy a new iPhone each year then sell the old one just before the next hardware launch. Time it right and use a decent sim-only tariff and you don't end up spending too much more to get a new handset each year compared to someone on a regular 2 year contract.

 

I think you're confusing the people in the Apple threads with the general public. That is most definitely NOT something anyone I know (who isn't in IT) does

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2 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

I think you're confusing the people in the Apple threads with the general public. That is most definitely NOT something anyone I know (who isn't in IT) does

But there is a market for it otherwise Apple wouldn't sell so many. And there's a market for people who don't want the latest model, and are happy with with the cheaper/older version.

 

Sony aren't planning on discontinuing the current PS4. They'd just offer it at a lower price to the newer model.

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provided Dev performance testing targets the lowest 'current gen' spec?

They won't. Devs like the latest and greatest. Magazines/websites will show screenshots/video of the game. Sales will want the best looking material. Effort that could have gone into optimising a game engine for one hardware spec will go into pushing the top end further since shinies sell. The base models will suffer, precisely because they will be called the base model and the expectation will become that the base models will occasionally struggle.

You can see this on PC with minimum and recommended requirements being presented for games. Everyone assume that the minimum will just about scrape by at 30fps and will have some issues here and there. The bog standard ps4 will become that minimum spec and it will be seen as ok to chug here and there as long as the newest model is ok. It's giving them and excuse to slowly move us on at the pace they want rather than make the best of what we started out with. It's why console games squeeze more out of the hardware compared to PC. Look at the latest Tomb Raider and what specs are needed on PC to have it run as well as it does as one Xbox One all the way through the game rather than just the opening section. It's certainly more than an i3 which some websites were claiming could be used to equal the power of the consoles. Go take a look in the tomb raider PC thread. THAT's what happens to the base model/minimum spec. It becomes accepted by the users that the minimum spec WILL have significant issues. We fucking deserve better than that!!

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