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I just think it's all a bit unnecessary and a bit shitty. If it's out in Q1 2017 (ie: after the PSVR launch), then it's even more shitty.

 

It's not going to effect me a huge amount as the majority of games I play are unlikely to make use of the extra power, but I'm very much against the idea of an iterative console model.

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Just now, SMD said:

"better yet" no

 

From Microsoft's point of view, eh? Personally, I like dedicated hardware, but I'm an old-fart in terms of media consumption.

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Not meaning to sound like one of those PC gamers, but from my perspective it's curious to see people viewing this as a bad thing, or indeed a fuck you to early adopters. I've always seen it as one of the benefits of PC gaming that you can always upgrade once new games start to chug for you, and it's always your choice when you do it. At the same time it's completely your choice to hold off and just turn down the resolution, disable some effects or whatever. The difference here is that developers will need to ensure their games perform well on the original PS4 if the rumours are true, and obviously there's no such requirement for PC games to support older hardware.

 

Both the PS4 and the Xbox One seem underpowered at the moment, obviously the Xbox One being more so. I'm all for a hardware refresh if it sorts that out.

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Meanwhile it's hard to say there's been a single PS4 exclusive that really justifies buying the console, or that feels like the pips have been squeaked as they were in the previous gen. Normally three years in is when it's all just getting started.

 

and if games have to target both sets of capabilities, then you'd buy a Neo and never see its capability exploited properly because the overall design would be held back by the existing PS4 design.

 

which then begs the question why: is the NX much more capable than any of us really expect? :-)

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I ask myself that every generation, then end up buying all the consoles anyway. :blush: I stick to the PC most of the time, but I wouldn't want to miss out on the likes of Bloodborne.

 

PC components are expensive though. Your graphics card is probably going to see the most replacements, and a high end one of those will probably set you back anywhere between £275-600 at the moment depending on how fancy you want to be. The cost of a whole "Neo" PS4 is probably going to be somewhere in the same range for the whole thing.

 

Again though, the main point is that the upgrade is optional. If you want the best performance straight away then you can get it on launch for the full price, or you can hold off and make do with the less powerful version until you find a compelling reason to upgrade. By the time you do the price will probably have come down.

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24 minutes ago, Cyhwuhx said:

 

From Microsoft's point of view, eh? Personally, I like dedicated hardware, but I'm an old-fart in terms of media consumption.

I don't know, depends how the numbers work. Do they support all the hardware revisions in the market or drop the old ones, consistently selling "new" hardware? What's the cut off point for software support? When does legacy support end? I can pick up a PS1 now and know all PS1 games will work on it. What about these proposed new "platforms"?

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It raises an enormous amount of doubt in customers' minds though. A game has to run on the existing PS4, sure, but does that mean 720p and an unlocked 30fps is a reasonable target? Will it dial down the graphics quality and switch off the anti-aliasing? With a single target gamers could be confident that publishers were going to be delivering an experience that's going to wow all the owners of the machine. Without any sort of standards in place, it's not clear what publishers will deliver.

 

Really, if Sony wanted to do this they should've established performance targets for base PS4 titles first. Make developers deliver 1080p/30 as standard. They don't have that option though.

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34 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

It raises an enormous amount of doubt in customers' minds though. A game has to run on the existing PS4, sure, but does that mean 720p and an unlocked 30fps is a reasonable target? Will it dial down the graphics quality and switch off the anti-aliasing? With a single target gamers could be confident that publishers were going to be delivering an experience that's going to wow all the owners of the machine. Without any sort of standards in place, it's not clear what publishers will deliver.

 

I mean realistically you'd end up with unlocked 720p and 30fps by the end of a console generation anyway due to the graphics arms race, and if this isn't coming out until 2017, that's about when in the generation it'd have started to happen.

 

People talk of consoles being more consistent, but usually they start strong and end up limping, and this time around they kind of came limping out of the gate.

 

EDIT: Maybe 900p is more sensible than Alex's strawman version - Assassins Creed and Battlefront are already there, for example.

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If the amount of improvement in those articles is correct, maybe a third at a push, it's the most stupid idea in the history of ideas. That's just enough to make the old one a bit rubbish, but nowhere near enough to make the new one super-impressive. Feasibly the most stupid console-based cash-grab idea that doesn't have the word Sega in front of it.

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4 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I mean realistically you'd end up with unlocked 720p and 30fps by the end of a console generation anyway due to the graphics arms race, and if this isn't coming out until 2017, that's about when in the generation it'd have started to happen.

 

People talk of consoles being more consistent, but usually they start strong and end up limping, and this time around they kind of came limping out of the gate.

 

I'm not sure we've seen too many signs of that happening yet. Uncharted 4 comes out in a month, looks absolutely spectacular from a graphical perspective, and is running at 1080p and 30fps. I'm not sure we're going to see too many more better looking games than that anytime soon and I think that 1080p 30fps, for the PS4 at least, has become the expected minimum baseline for most games, with the odd 900p exception.

 

The worry is that, if Uncharted 4 were produced when the Neo and PS4 both co-existed, would the PS4 version end up being compromised in some way to accommodate the extra power of the Neo. I think Alex is right in saying that there are so many question marks in terms of what the hit to the PS4 version might end up being.

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41 minutes ago, Mogster said:

I ask myself that every generation, then end up buying all the consoles anyway. :blush: I stick to the PC most of the time, but I wouldn't want to miss out on the likes of Bloodborne.

 

PC components are expensive though. Your graphics card is probably going to see the most replacements, and a high end one of those will probably set you back anywhere between £275-600 at the moment depending on how fancy you want to be. The cost of a whole "Neo" PS4 is probably going to be somewhere in the same range for the whole thing.

 

Again though, the main point is that the upgrade is optional. If you want the best performance straight away then you can get it on launch for the full price, or you can hold off and make do with the less powerful version until you find a compelling reason to upgrade. By the time you do the price will probably have come down.

 

You wouldn't pay £400 upgrading after a 3 year wait and be happy with 30% more power though. Sure, Master Race peoples will upgrade every 6 minutes and be happy to get an extra 4%, but that much money and time passed is almost a generational leap. If I did that now I'd go from my 7950 to a 980.

 

EDIT: For none-PC folk, depending on what measure you use, it's probably 60-100% improvement. It's hard to tell. But worth doing, basically.

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Just now, Rev said:

 

You wouldn't pay £400 upgrading after a 3 year wait and be happy with 30% more power though. Sure, Master Race peoples will upgrade every 6 minutes and be happy to get an extra 4%, but that much money and time passed is almost a generational leap. If I did that now I'd go from my 7950 to a 980.

Sure, but that's my point. You would have the choice to upgrade whenever you felt it was worth it for you, instead of having no choice but to stick to an ever more dated launch PS4 for years to come. Also I might have upgraded to a 980 ti a year after buying a 780, because I'm an idiot. It's amazing though so I don't really regret it! :blush:

 

I don't get the argument that PS4 games would end up being worse on the launch models than they would if the more powerful console was never released. If the console could only manage 720p and an unlocked 30fps for a title, then why would that be any different if the Neo didn't exist? It's not like the console is getting a downgrade, and you'd hope that developers would still aim for the best balance they could reach between quality and performance for both models.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mogster said:

Sure, but that's my point. You would have the choice to upgrade whenever you felt it was worth it for you, instead of having no choice but to stick to an ever more dated launch PS4 for years to come. Also I might have upgraded to a 980 ti a year after buying a 780, because I'm an idiot. It's amazing though so I don't really regret it! :blush:

 

I don't get the argument that PS4 games would end up being worse on the launch models than they would if the more powerful console was never released. If the console could only manage 720p and an unlocked 30fps for a title, then why would that be any different if the Neo didn't exist? It's not like the console is getting a downgrade, and you'd hope that developers would still aim for the best balance they could reach between quality and performance for both models.

 

 

 

It depends on a million things, but it definitely could happen that PS4 games look worse than if the new machine didn't exist. It depends how easy it is to optimise for both machines at once in the available time.

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1 minute ago, Mogster said:

and you'd hope

 

 

I think this is the bit you want.  The worry is that developers will aim high for NPS4 and not care how crappy it plays on PS4.

 

I'd wait and see how this pans out though before getting all hysterical about it.  If NPS4 goes wood, it's probably not going to make much difference, as devs will be wanting to please their existing base of PS4 owners.

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I cant see how this is going to work out.

 

A). For the average punter this is going to look like a brand new playstation, making the existing one old tech. Unless it's marketed like a slim. Same price, better form factor, more power. Or it's a soft launch just to appeal to VR users and those who really care about framerate.

 

B) "What games are coming out for the new one?"

"Ummn, no bespoke games but it might make some new games look better"

 

It seems to be answering a problem that isn't there; they are market leaders, trouncing xbox sales. Unless the current box is failing to deliver more expansive VR experiences than we've seen and they are doubling down on that?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mogster said:

I don't get the argument that PS4 games would end up being worse on the launch models than they would if the more powerful console was never released. If the console could only manage 720p and an unlocked 30fps for a title, then why would that be any different if the Neo didn't exist? It's not like the console is getting a downgrade, and you'd hope that developers would still aim for the best balance they could reach between quality and performance for both models.

 

I think it's infinitely more likely that they'll aim for the quality and performance that makes the game look good in the better model, which they can use for screenshots and videos, and downgrade the game to whatever they can get away with on the original model, which they won't have to acknowledge in their marketing at all.

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The "problem" is presumably in their TV department.

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Just now, Rev said:

The "problem" is presumably in their TV department.

 

But the content isn't there yet. Is even higher def gaming a enough of a driver to get your to upgrade a TV just for games?

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1 minute ago, macosx said:

 

But the content isn't there yet. Is even higher def gaming a enough of a driver to get your to upgrade a TV just for games?

 

I'd think about buying a 4K TV for t'footy if I was buying one soon, I think this would tip me towards a yes-I-want-4K.

 

I wouldn't buy a Sony one, mind. But y'know.

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5 minutes ago, Rev said:

The "problem" is presumably in their TV department.

 

I think this probably bang on. It's an attempt by Sony to use their most successful consumer product to try and prop up some of their failing divisions.

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maybe it's just an upgrade to drive identical content at 4K resolutions.

 

No improvements beyond the resolution. Not faster. Not Prettier. Nothing but 4K

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58 minutes ago, footle said:

Meanwhile it's hard to say there's been a single PS4 exclusive that really justifies buying the console, or that feels like the pips have been squeaked as they were in the previous gen. Normally three years in is when it's all just getting started.

 

I keep seeing this claim, from punters and developers, that we've seen everything the PS4 can possibly do. Except I then look at, say, Ratchet & Clank and compare it to Klank and there's a stunning difference between the two. Or The Division against Battlefield 4. Or Blops 3 against Ghosts.

 

Sure, the PS4 has limitations, but so does the WiiU, and that's churning out stuff that looks like this:

 

81XoXCL6teL._SL1500_.jpg

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1 minute ago, SeanR said:

maybe it's just an upgrade to drive identical content at 4K resolutions.

 

No improvements beyond the resolution. Not faster. Not Prettier. Nothing but 4K

 

That would be fine, but pushing 4 times as many pixels with 30% more power isn't going to work.

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Can't wait to see Game's upgrade offers.

 

Trade in your old PS4 and 3 games* and get £30 off the new PSWhy?

 

*Offer excludes sports games, WWE games and The Outfit (2006)

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13 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

 

I think it's infinitely more likely that they'll aim for the quality and performance that makes the game look good in the better model, which they can use for screenshots and videos, and downgrade the game to whatever they can get away with on the original model, which they won't have to acknowledge in their marketing at all.

 

Games will look look worse, but I don't think it'll be "whatever they can get away with" worse. To use the PC comparison again, just because games look amazing maxed out at 4K doesn't mean they're going to be a mess at lower settings. I also can't see developers neglecting the original PS4 when it's going to have a massively higher install base for some time yet.

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I think they have seen the phone market, and what to tap the whales who upgrade every year.  You know a lot of us here would be those whales... I probably would.

 

The problem is everything that is successful in that market is because they have some 'productive' use. Yes you have a core fanbase who buy each edition, but the majority  buy a new laptop/PC/Phone/Mac when the old one becomes too frustrating to use anymore.

 

Consoles USP (ick) is the it is a joy box. That 'just works' and provides fun. The best games on the console are coming out as you get hyped for the next one. If the upgrade schedule becomes like a PC, you'll have a hardcore by all means, but the unwashed majority will keep their console until it is too frustrating to use and then either a) upgrade or b)drift away from gaming. 

 

Despite being a spod who would probably by the PS4k, long term I think switching from an upgrade-due-to-hype to an upgrade-due-to-frustration model is a terrible idea, despite the huge amount of money it would make in the short term.

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3 hours ago, Stanley said:

I can actually understand people's reticence towards PSVR now until we learn more about how this new PS4 model affects it. 

 

I mean you wouldn't want to spend £350 to find out you'd get better performance with the new one. A £350 purchase suddenly becomes a £700 purchase.

 

This is the point for me - I'm not fussed about 4K, but if the new machine turns out to be needed or significantly better for PSVR, I might as well cancel my preorder as I won't be affording a new machine this year as well.

 

Concerned too about how a new machine would affect games such as BF4 where it helps for everyone to have the same hardware. Then the only differentiator is skill and connection. But suddenly if some players have higher resolution and faster framerate...

 

I'm hoping this new machine is just to get 4K movies into homes rather than for gaming, if so I can happily just ignore it.

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