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HTC Vive - Pro HMD Announced (Wireless, Integrated Audio, Improved Optics, etc)


HarryBizzle
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Footage of Raw Data being played.  This is the light gun genre done in VR.  I'm hoping there will be a reimagining of the light gun shooters of old in VR.  Virtual cop, Time Crisis, House of the Dead and Duck Hunt.

 

 

 

 

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Before the forum shat the bed, I posted that I was leaning slightly towards the Vive. The down-time left me at a bit of a loose end and rather than up my productivity (pfft), I’ve been rabidly reading and watching as much as I can about the new headsets. Basically, I’m all-in for the Vive now.

 

I think the Rift is the defacto default choice for most people just because it’s been the only reputable name in VR for so long, and the anticipation hasn't so much been for "VR" but for "Oculus", the Coca Cola of Virtual Reality. I bought the DK1, the DK2, the first gen Gear VR, the latest Gear VR AND got a CV1 order in within the first 10 mins of pre-orders going live, so I totally understand the mindset. However after trying the Vive last weekend (um, the VR Pepsi I guess..), I’m totally convinced that it’s the superior format and I guess I’ve been trying to talk myself out of that perception for a week, finally admitting defeat this morning.

 

My conclusion comes from two directions really:

 

First of all, accuracy of tracking. It’s absolutely incredible and feels like a huge step forwards from where we were with the DK2. It’s the smoothest and most seamless VR experience that I’ve had. Seeing the controllers mapped 1:1 in front of you in VR space is genuinely amazing. I know Oculus isn’t ready with its touch controllers yet, and there’s definitely a chance that they’ll be able to achieve something similar using their camera system instead of lighthouse positioning, but the thought of having a complete system right now, and one that’s already proven in terms of tracking (to me at least), is far more compelling than the thought of playing traditional joypad games that happen to have a VR viewpoint.

 

Secondly, the chaperone system. The idea of this is so simple, but I found that it gave me a confidence that I hadn’t felt before in a VR world. In some strange way, that small connection to reality actually keeps you in the VR space more effectively. You’re not going to break immersion by accidentally knocking your hand on the desk, or walking into a wall if you’re doing walk-around room-scale stuff. It just feels great.

 

Other stuff that I believe applies to both headsets: the focal sweet spot is so gigantic now that I didn’t even need to try to adjust anything; the screen door effect is still present, but is nowhere near as pronounced as on the earlier systems: I had to actually look for it (some reports have Oculus ahead on this point, but honestly I found the Vive more than acceptable); the vertical FOV now is really impressive and helped with the sense of presence.

 

I think Oculus has the right idea with the built in headphones. Making it as easy as possible to jump in to VR is the way to go. I’d also say that Oculus has the software advantage early on (for non-gesture games anyway) because of their walled-garden approach to distribution. But on the other hand, they shouldn’t be rewarded for trying to fragment an open platform so I’m happy to vote with my wallet on that point.

 

Um, that’s it really. Decision made. I’m going with Vive.

 

VIVA LA VIVE






 

Still keeping my Oculus pre-order for now though. A lot can happen in a month.

 

/blog

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Exactly the way I feel except I have had no experience with VR beyond a demo on a DK2 rift at EGX show for literately 2mins.  I'm eagerly awaiting impressions and reviews before deciding which headset to keep.  I've been flip flopping between going with the Rift and Vive for the last few months.  HTC's Vive just seems a much more compelling and complete VR experience right but if Oculus had it Touch controllers and room scale solution day one it would be a closer run race.  

 

OT:. Some of my posts into this thread have disappeared since the forum downtime.  How do I get those retrieved?

Exactly the way I feel except I have had no experience with VR beyond a demo on a DK2 rift at EGX show for literately 2mins.  I'm eagerly awaiting impressions and reviews before deciding which headset to keep.  I've been flip flopping between going with the Rift and Vive for the last few months.  HTC's Vive just seems a much more compelling and complete VR experience right but if Oculus had it Touch controllers and room scale solution day one it would be a closer run race.  

 

OT:. Some of my posts into this thread have disappeared since the forum downtime.  How do I get those retrieved?

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I can't tell you guys how obsessed I've been comparing the Rift and Vive over the last week since all the GDC impressions hit. I'm still undecided and only leaning towards the Rift slightly more because of my available space. 

 

I'm going to very simply bullet point the comparisons to you can TLDR from all the time I have spent researching/reading/watching videos/trawling reddit for verified dev/user feedback. I would quote/link all of my sources, but that would take forever, so you'll just have to trust that I'm not a shill/liar :) 

 

Oculus Rift points over Vive

 

- Various reports indicates it has the best optics out of the three major headsets for screen door effect. The Vive does have a more pronounced SDE and more visible circles on the fresnel lenses, but pretty much all accounts state you stop noticing these once you're immersed in the experience which is very credible as your brain will be far more distracted by presence. However, when using something like virtual desktop/virtual theatre where your focus is on a more viewing traditional exp, I think this is where the SDE issue might be more apparent - so the Rift will (very slightly) be a better headset optics wise particularly for less presence based content. 

 

- Cheaper out of the gate BUT adding Touch controllers could mean they end up at parity - but if you want to spread out your costs, it is a good way to do it

 

- Built in headphones, various reports have said they are surprisingly great and devs are praising the fact that they have a set experience they can target for consistent immersive audio - also means you have less clutter and wires to add to your head on top of the headset

 

- Lighter, more comfortable headset

 

- Exclusive games/first set of support of certain games (eg Project Cars) - I don't think will be an ongoing issue and I don't think the exclusives at launch will bother people on the Vive playing around with room scale - but the time people are hungering for more content, I think content will be ported over or made available to both headsets but for day 1 otherwise, stuff like Eve and Chronos looks like a compelling set of sit down experiences

 

- ATW support (though valve are doing something similar in VR)

 

- Touch controllers ARE coming and by all accounts, they are meant to be very very good. Even more comfortable than the excellent vive controllers. However, this is where the certain positivity ends and more of a question mark comes up. The question around them isn't about accuracy - it is about two things. Are they capable of a room scale experience equivalent to the Vive and are Oculus going to push room scale the way valve are? And the answer is ....yes and no. A few accounts, including that of the dev of a pack in Vive game (fantastic contraption) have said for room scale - it is pretty much just as good (with the annoyance of USB extenders to ensure the second camera can get in a position to provide the coverage and to walk around comfortably). However, Oculus themselves haven't been the most committed about their current belief in large room scale being the current go to experience for VR. I currently think while seated/cockpit experiences are going to be great as well as 360 videos/virtual desktop possibility - the REAL sense of presence you're going to get is from motion control and compelling use of space - watch any NODE videos on youtube of budget cuts/raw data etc - so the Oculus certainly has the tech and dev support available for a compelling exp, but no one knows when this is coming and how much Oculus are going to get behind it. I reckon they're going to push hard once the Touch is going to launch - it makes no sense to make a big song and dance about RS when they can't even offer it and it would shit over all the devs they've got on board for pad controlled games to make their PR about room scale right now, but it does mean they end up looking incapable at first glance and leave people doubting. 

 

- They have John Carmack :) 

 

 

Vive over Rift 

 

- Day 1 room scale. Not just any room scale. Large room scale. If you have the full space to take advantage of the full extent of room scale and you want VR in that space in the next few months, you shouldn't even be considering the Rift. Jason Rubin (head of Oculus game studios) even stated that while OR can do room scale fine, they're going to be targeting a smaller space than Vive because they believe the average person only has that available (ie 5 x 11 feet rather than 15 x 15). My own space personally is approx 5 x 11 so that makes both headsets compelling for me, but if I had the full 15 x 15 - Vive all the way - no question. 

 

- Lighthouse tracking but its nature of design and set up will mean for incredible tracking in a large 3D space that two Rift cameras are unlikely to be able to match in that same maximum space

 

- Uses the steam store and valve software rather than a new store front. PC people hate using another eco system when they can avoid it because steam is so great. Steam has an excellent refund policy. The rift store has NO refund policy atm (unless local law forces them to) - steam store also means flexible sales and allows you to buy steam keys form elsewhere - the Oculus store is a walled garden in comparison 

 

- Following on from above, a partnership with Valve in general pushing your API and software support = PC master race boner

 

- Has a built in USB port/headphone jack so you can plug in a set of your own headphones directly - on the rift if you want to use your own for any reason, need to connect directly to PC

 

- Devs are going to target room scale/motion controls by default due to the nature of the system and what is packed in 

 

- The taller FOV (rift is a slightly wider one) is said to be better for room scale and standing/waling experiences 

 

- VR is going to be such a small initial market that devs will be encouraged to push out ports across platforms and exclusivity shouldn't be a lasting concern 

 

 

TLDR - if you have the money and the space - buy the Vive. If you don't and want VR now but are happy to wait for motion controls and a potentially smaller/medium room scale exp, get the Rift for the (slightly) superior optics/headset design and initial exclusive access to games - if you can wait, wait for E3 and see what OR shows about the touch controllers and their own touch games. If you don't have a powerful PC, get a PSVR and why are you in this thread lol?

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16 minutes ago, Uzi Temp said:

 

- Touch controllers ARE coming and by all accounts, they are meant to be very very good. Even more comfortable than the excellent vive controllers. However, this is where the certain positivity ends and more of a question mark comes up. The question around them isn't about accuracy - it is about two things. Are they capable of a room scale experience equivalent to the Vive and are Oculus going to push room scale the way valve are? And the answer is ....yes and no. A few accounts, including that of the dev of a pack in Vive game (fantastic contraption) have said for room scale - it is pretty much just as good (with the annoyance of USB extenders to ensure the second camera can get in a position to provide the coverage and to walk around comfortably). However, Oculus themselves haven't been the most committed about their current belief in large room scale being the current go to experience for VR. I currently think while seated/cockpit experiences are going to be great as well as 360 videos/virtual desktop possibility - the REAL sense of presence you're going to get is from motion control and compelling use of space - watch any NODE videos on youtube of budget cuts/raw data etc - so the Oculus certainly has the tech and dev support available for a compelling exp, but no one knows when this is coming and how much Oculus are going to get behind it. I reckon they're going to push hard once the Touch is going to launch - it makes no sense to make a big song and dance about RS when they can't even offer it and it would shit over all the devs they've got on board for pad controlled games to make their PR about room scale right now, but it does mean they end up looking incapable at first glance and leave people doubting. 

 

 

Nice summary of the dilemma. 

 

This bit though: two things to add. Oculus are currently advocating a 180 degree experience rather than 360 with touch, and keep saying that they havent shown their room scale solution yet. Reading between the lines, and I know I'm making an assumption, I don't think they can do 360 and touch with just the two cameras; Also a number of people at gdc talked about glitches in the touch tracking, and it's not ready, so that's fair enough, but I don't think you can say that tracking accuracy is a non-issue.

 

Don't get me wrong though, although I've weighed up and come down on the Vive side, the fact I still haven't canned the oculus pre-order speaks for itself...

 

Also, what's with the "temp" thing, Uzi?

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A couple of devs said 360 tracking has been fine, including the fantastic contraption guys who set up the cameras at opposite ends (they discussed this on an open twitch stream) - Oculus are pushing the two side by side cameras as it fits their ease of use/safety/quality control MO which is far away from the open Valve/HTC method of here are the tools and your space - go nuts! It doesn't necessarily mean they can't track you in a 360 space, to do that you need camera coverage - provided by two opposite cameras and good tracking on your headset (the Rift headset has sensors on the back) and touch controllers. The issue isn't tracking them in a space, it is how large that tracking space is - in a medium space as opposed to a large vive space, they track absolutely fine from what I've read. Glitches in a non final product can happen at trade shows, which is why I'm going more by the devs who are using them over long periods of time for active development. 

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Absolutely. The Vive works out of the box and in a fairly large space with 100% certainty and for the next few months, that won't be challenged by anyone else. The temp uzi thing is due to the mod accounts having issues with posts being missing when the upgrade happened. 

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1 hour ago, Uzi Temp said:

- Day 1 room scale. Not just any room scale. Large room scale. If you have the full space to take advantage of the full extent of room scale and you want VR in that space in the next few months, you shouldn't even be considering the Rift. Jason Rubin (head of Oculus game studios) even stated that while OR can do room scale fine, they're going to be targeting a smaller space than Vive because they believe the average person only has that available (ie 5 x 11 feet rather than 15 x 15). My own space personally is approx 5 x 11 so that makes both headsets compelling for me, but if I had the full 15 x 15 - Vive all the way - no question. 

 

 

 

Valve advises the following for room scale. Not say there won't be devs that push out beyond this up to whatever the maximum the lighthouse FOV is.

 

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2001-UXCM-4439

 

Quote

Pick a room with some free space. For Room Scale VR, you will need at least 2m x 1.5m (or 6.5 ft. x 5ft.). The maximum distance supported between base stations is 5m (or 16 ft).

 

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So me and a couple of the guys from work went up to have a look at the Vive Demo at Currys in Birstall yesterday lunchtime. 

 

It it was my first go on VR other than 5 minutes on Elite Dangerous on an early Oculus Rift set up. Was very very impressed and if I had a PC I'd definitely be interested in getting involved. As it is I don't and have no intention of buying one so it'll be PS VR for me. 

 

Anyway here's a short clip of my mate Sam trying out the Ballroom Dancing Sim...

 

http://youtu.be/JGMeXF7-jzM (watch with sound)

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1 hour ago, Uzi Temp said:

The temp uzi thing is due to the mod accounts having issues with posts being missing when the upgrade happened. 

It's been fixed for ages, hasn't it? Get back on your account and have posts merged if you can be bothered. 

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Fuck!!!

 

I just received an email from HTC that says my order is being processed.

 

1. I was not expecting my order until May

2. I wanted to get more impressions from early preorderers before making my decision as to what headset to go for

3. I was going to buy it with bonus money from work.

4. My wallet is not ready.  

 

Anyone else get an email?  I ordered in mid March so not exactly an early preorder

 

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Thats weird, logged into my account on HTC but theres nothing to indicate its shipping anytime soon.  It even says my order is expected in May.  A few other people on Neo Gaf are baffled and have received the same email.

Thats weird, logged into my account on HTC but theres nothing to indicate its shipping anytime soon.  It even says my order is expected in May.  A few other people on Neo Gaf are baffled and have received the same email.

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Yep, I got the following earlier today and thought I had cancelled mine last week but had my suspicions it may not have been due to broken English in the cs conversation and no final email confirmation.

 

 

 

 

It's in the works!

 

Thanks for pre-ordering the HTC Vive. Your order's being processed now.

To check your order status, or if you need help, look up your order online.

If you still have questions or requests related to your order, please contact us.

 

 

 

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I got to try Vive at the National Videogame Arcade earlier this week. Absolutely incredible stuff which has been posted about far more eloquently than I can manage. I was amazed by how quickly your brain accepts that you are in a different place, despite the fact that you are wearing this very obviously cabled headset while holding a pair of artificial hip joints. To the point where turning 270 degrees to avoid coiling the cable around yourself and listening to people watching you on a monitor shouting (un)helpful advice doesn't seem to interrupt the illusion!

 

Now how do you cancel a Rift order?

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Portal Stories: VR (UE4, fan-made) coming to Steam/Vive for free in early April

 

http://steamcommunity.com/games/3174...25119678714122

 

Quote

We're very happy to officially announce "Portal Stories: VR"!
It brings you a whole new way to experience the beginning of the award winning Portal 2 modification Portal Stories: Mel. 

Powered by Unreal Engine 4, Portal Stories: VR will allow you to see and experience the full scale of the Aperture Science facility during its heydays!
Besides the familiar content there's also a lot of new stuff: new music, voice lines, effects and a new area.

Portal Stories: VR will be available early April for Free on Steam.

An HTC Vive Headset is required in order to play.

 

Quote

Hey everyone!

 

We'd like to talk a bit more about Portal Stories: VR, what it is and clear up some confusion.

 

Portal Stories:VR is our own brand new mini story set in the Portal Universe. It's completely separate from Portal Stories: Mel and it will be releasing as a new game on Steam, available for free.

It features 10 brand new puzzles, specifically designed to work using the 360 room scale that the HTC Vive offers.
Inside Aperture, you'll be able to use the new "Aperture Science Instant Teleportation Device" and the "Aperture Science Apparatus Retrieval Tool" to solve the new tests.
But new puzzles and tools aren't everything! We've also got new dialogue, music and models!

We've been working on Portal Stories: VR for a couple of weeks, and in that time we've got an amazing amount of work done.
Everyone has been working extremely hard, and we still have plenty of work ahead of us, but we're confident we'll be done on time for the Vive release.

Just like with Portal Stories: Mel, PS:VR will be releasing completely free.
You will NOT need to have either Portal 2 or PS:M installed in order to play PS:VR.

That said, a lot of you don't have a Vive and would still love to play it, we totally understand that.
Once we've released Portal Stories: VR, we'll be looking at making the game more accessible and try to get it to work with traditional inputs.

To be clear: Portal Stories: VR is *NOT* a VR port of PS:Mel. It is a special set of puzzles, created specifically for VR.

FAQ:


Q: Do I need to own a Vive for this?
A: Yes, for now, we'll be looking for other input methods later.

Q: Why Unreal Engine and not Source (2)?
A: Unreal Engine supports SteamVR natively. Source doesn't, and Source 2 isn't released yet.

Q: Can you even release portal stuff in Unreal?
A: Yes. We've got permission from Valve's legal team.

Q: Why don't you have Oculus Rift support?
A: We don't have Rift units, so we can't do any testing for it.

Q: How much is this going to cost me?
A: Nothing, it'll be free!

Q: Do I need to download Portal Stories: Mel again?
A: Nope, this will be a separate game on Steam.

 

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With the rift NDA expiring, we're actually starting to see some Vive/Rift comparisons from devs. I'm pretty pleased at this point that I have a month before my pre-orders kick in. Hopefully we'll have a good picture of the state of play before then.

 

FOV comparison is interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4ce9o2/stresslevelzero_on_twitch_stream_confirms_fov_as/d1hgi7j

 

Kind of explains why the Rift has a more reduced SDE in early hands-ons. So we could be looking at a choice between sharpness (Rift) and presence (Vive).

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That camera stuff is genius. The sheer level of physical interaction in this was definitely a highlight of my recent Vive demo. It just felt instantly, utterly natural. And this is just the very first application. It's going to be a fascinating few years.

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