Jump to content
rllmuk
Sign in to follow this  
Steven

Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Recommended Posts

26 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

Nonsense. You have a protagonist, an antagonist and a basic concept in "spreading the word/iconography of the rebellion as wide as you can."

 

There's a basic idea there, it's just up to JJ and the man that wrote Batman vs Superman and Justice League to deliver. 

 

You seem to have declared it nonsense to suggest that there’s been minimal set-up and then explained how there’s been minimal set-up :huh:

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BitterToad said:

Nonsense. You have a protagonist, an antagonist and a basic concept in "spreading the word/iconography of the rebellion as wide as you can."

 

There's a basic idea there, it's just up to JJ and the man that wrote Batman vs Superman and Justice League to deliver. 

 

Well whoever Rey's dad ends up being, we pretty much know her mum's going to be called Martha then.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is supposed to be the opening trilogy in a whole new era of Star Wars films, right? Disney want to milk this cash-cow for all it's worth. So it seems quite possible that episode 9 won't end with the good guys' victory. At least, not in the same way as Return of the Jedi.

 

In fact, for that purpose maybe the end of TLJ would have been the best way to end the new trilogy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

“Star Wars: The Last Jedi” Box Office Has Disney Concerned

January 31, 2018

15 Comments

Joe Hogarty

 

 

 

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Disney might be having more problems than expected with the current wave of Star Wars films and merchandise. Yes, the films have been profitable, but since The Force Awakens made its successful theatrical run in 2015, it appears that box office returns have had less of an impact than analysts had anticipated.

 

Rogue One was a Star Wars spinoff film, but Disney had always stressed that it was an experiment and they wanted to see how the public reacted to Star Wars movies that were not part of The Episodes. Rogue One’s final box office worldwide total was just under $1.1 billion. For an experiment, it performed fairly well. Nowhere near the $2.1 billion that The Force Awakens did, but still very profitable for the company.

 

The Last Jedi, although praised by many critics, had a decidedly split view among Star Wars fans and audiences alike, and that may have impacted the box office. The Last Jedi pulled in $1.3 billion worldwide, but being a direct sequel to The Force Awakens and an episode of the Star Wars Saga, it did fall short of what many analysts expected as the final intake.

 

Solo: A Star Wars Story, the next Star Wars spin off to follow Rogue One, will open theatrically in less than 4 months and that movie seems to have had troubles of its own with the firing of original directors Phil Lord and Chris Miller, needing Ron Howard to come in and re-shoot a large portion of the film, hopefully salvaging what Lord and Miller had already filmed. We have yet seen a teaser trailer or much advertising and with so little time until it premiers, that could hint to something troubling.

 

The Wall Street Journal does make a good point and they aren’t the only ones to see a possible crack in the Star Wars franchise. I have no doubt Disney is fully aware of what is going on and hopefully they are rethinking the current direction that Lucasfilm has taken the Star Wars franchise.

From The Wall Street Journal:

 

Six years after Walt Disney Co. spent $4 billion to buy a single franchise, “Star Wars” is looking a little less stellar.

Despite being one of the past year’s most successful movies, “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” has fallen short of Wall Street’s expectations due to a faster-than-expected falloff at the box office, declining toy sales and a poor showing in China.

 

With $1.3 billion in global box office for “The Last Jedi,” the most of any movie released in 2017 and No. 9 of all time, Disney ’s problems are ones other entertainment companies would kill to have. Nonetheless, for a property as valued as “Star Wars,” any sign audiences are losing faith is concerning and could prove costly down the road if the trend continues.

 

“Disney started off with an incredible touch with Star Wars, but now it’s looking a little less magic,” said B. Riley FBR analyst Barton Crockett.

Across Hollywood, studios have prioritized franchises that spawn sequels, move toys and provide maximum negotiating power over movie theaters. If the Skywalker saga is starting to lose its must-see status, that could spell trouble for the company as it prepares to release new movies from this May well into the 2020s.

 

“The Last Jedi” will soon end its run with around $625 million in the U.S. and Canada, about $200 million short of several Wall Street analysts’ expectations. While few thought it would match the $937 million domestic and $2.07 billion world-wide gross of 2015’s “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” the franchise’s return to the big screen after a decade away, analysts forecast the new film would come closer.

 

Foreign grosses followed a similar pattern.

 

In the U.S. and Canada, “The Last Jedi” opened to $220 million, slightly behind “The Force Awakens,” which had a $248 million opening. With overwhelmingly positive reviews and an A audience rating according to CinemaScore, it looked like another “Star Wars” movie would have a long, healthy run.But by mid-January, it was grossing less than half as much each day as “The Force Awakens” at the same time two years ago and less even than 2016’s spinoff “Rogue One,” which didn’t feature iconic characters in major roles and opened to $155 million.

 

It’s been 40 years since the original Star Wars film was released and fans can look forward to a regular supply of new films and merchandise in the coming years. But, with the release of “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” a small band of rebels—who loved the early films—just can’t take it anymore. WSJ’s Mark Kelly reports.

Disney theatrical distribution chief Dave Hollis said in an interview that “The Last Jedi” box office returns have been “the result we were expecting.” He noted that the second film in prior “Star Wars” trilogies also grossed less than their predecessors.

 

Not all series follow that pattern. Marvel Studios, which Disney also paid $4 billion to buy, has released 17 superhero movies in 10 years with no sign of a box office slowdown.

 

Star Wars toy sales during the 2017 holidays were the lowest since Disney relaunched the brand in 2015, according to NPD Group. For the full year 2017, it was the No. 2 toy brand in the U.S. behind Nerf and down from No. 1 in 2016. Worldwide, it remained No. 1.

 

Josh Silverman, executive vice president of licensing Disney Consumer Products, noted in a statement that Star Wars remained the No. 1 toy franchise during the holidays.

 

Electronic Arts Inc.’s tie-in videogame “Star Wars Battlefront II” is on track to sell between 10 million and 12 million copies compared with 14 million for the first installment in 2015, according to several industry analysts. That is partly due to a plan to sell virtual goods that appeared to give big spenders a competitive edge, which it canceled just before release due to fan outcry.

 

An EA spokesman declined to comment.

 

With blockbuster grosses expected for “The Last Jedi,” Disney was able to demand theaters play the movie for a minimum of four weeks, an unusually long period. That hasn’t been a problem for large multiplexes, but strained single-screen cinemas like Rodney Miller’s Elder Theatre of Jackson Center, Ohio, population 1,400, where screenings were nearly empty later in the run.

 

“The first week was good, the second week was pretty decent, and the third and fourth weeks were disasters,” he said.

The new film’s take on Star Wars mythology, in ways a rebuke to the nostalgia pervasive in “The Force Awakens,” alienated some hard-core fans who criticized “The Last Jedi” online and didn’t return for multiple viewings as they have for prior installments.

 

Mr. Hollis said the box office take for “The Last Jedi” was more front-loaded than he had expected and said the days that holidays fell on the calendar and strong competition from other films, particularly “Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle,” may have impacted its January gross.

 

Overseas, “The Last Jedi” has grossed close to $700 million, about $180 million more than “Rogue One” but $430 million less than “The Force Awakens.”

The biggest chunk of that shortfall came from China, where “The Last Jedi” has grossed a weak $41 million, just one-third as much as “The Force Awakens” and 41% less than “Rogue One.” Despite aggressive promotional campaigns including pop songs and Stormtroopers on the Great Wall, moviegoers in the world’s most populous nation have proved less interested in Luke, Leia and lightsabers.

 

Mr. Hollis said the “Last Jedi” China gross was disappointing and said Disney is still “digging into” the reasons and potential solutions.

If audiences need a break from “Star Wars,” they won’t get one this year. A spinoff focused on a young Han Solo opens Memorial Day weekend.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Last Jedi was always going to perform the way it has.

 

TFA opens and it’s the first Star Wars film for 10 years, and potentially the first decent Star Wars film for over 30 years. Everyone goes to see it, fans and non-fans, multiple times. It’s a phenomenon.

 

The second film is the difficult second album. It’s neither the beginning of the story or the end, and you get the fans and the casual fans, but the non-fans that went to see TFA and weren’t impressed won’t be returning.

 

The third installment has the novelty of ‘ending the story’, and will sit somewhere between TLJ sand TFA as you pick up a few more people who are interested to see how the trilogy ends. $1.7 Billion I’ll say.

 

It’s the same thing that happened with TPM, AOTC and ROTS. AOTC had a similar drop-off.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I imagine AOTC earned the least of the prequels because it was also the shittest.

 

According to BO Mojo, TESB ($538m) earned more than ROTJ ($475m) lifetime/global. Presumably because it was the better film and got more love for the special editions. Either way the third SW instalment doesn’t always necessarily see an uptick from the middle film.

 

Who knows whether JJ can outdo TLJ with EPIX. But where I a betting man I’d say it will gross less than TLJ, and that before that, SOLO will do comparatively poorly too cf. R1.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MrPogo said:

She doesn’t know know, she knows the balance of probability says that’s almost definitely the situation; every child abandoned into miserable circumstances clings to the secret dream they’re someone special whose loving parents were forced to leave them for a noble reason, and one day they’ll uncover their true origins and fulfil their destiny. But as an adult she realises deep down that sort of thing only happens in movies and fairytales.

 

Star Wars fits both of these descriptions. It always has and always should. Lucas understood this for better or worse. Johnson seems to struggle with the fairytail aspect. Either going too far (Liea's space walk) or not far enough (making Ray just a pleb who happens to be able to wield a lightsaber like Darth Maul with a Gundark up his arse).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

 

Star Wars fits both of these descriptions. It always has and always should. Lucas understood this for better or worse. Johnson seems to struggle with the fairytail aspect. Either going too far (Liea's space walk) or not far enough (making Ray just a pleb who happens to be able to wield a lightsaber like Darth Maul with a Gundark up his arse).

 

My god, you can’t just have some pleb wielding a lightsaber. What was Johnson thinking? I’m not paying good money to watch some oik; I want my Jedi to come from good families. 

  • Upvote 7
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, K said:

 

My god, you can’t just have some pleb wielding a lightsaber. What was Johnson thinking? I’m not paying good money to watch some oik; I want my Jedi to come from good families. 

 

No. She had no experience of the weapon before she handed Kylo his arse in TFA. That always really bothered me. Whether she comes from some Jedi lineage or not doesn't matter. I just don't find it believable that she could be that good with it with no training. She swing it about a few times in TLJ before the Kylo/Snoke scene but that was it.

 

I had the same problem with Finn using it in TFA.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She had no experience of lightsabers, but from what we saw of her on Jakku she's not the sort to back away from a fight, and she certainly knows how to hit people with sticks. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine she's had to defend herself her whole life.

 

Wielding a lightsaber is just a sub-set of her well developed 'hitting people with sticks' skill set. Also JJ went to great lengths to point out that Chewie's bowcaster was a comically overpowered weapon, so Kylo was dealing with a pretty significant wound during that fight.

  • Upvote 9
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/02/2018 at 20:35, Dirty Harry Potter said:

The biggest problem Disney now have is how throughly they have misunderstood half the fanbase.

 

They must have had massive confidence in TLJ to announce a new Rian SW Trilogy right before it's release - but I really can't see that happening now. The project will attract such loud, negative clickbait for Disney from the 50% of the very vocal fans that hated TLJ - that I can't see Disney wanting to go there. 

 

(snip)

 

Some might see it as brave and exciting. I see it as a clusterfuck waiting to happen.

 

I would have called myself a fan but I've been told I'm not anymore because I liked The Last Jedi. So take this with a pinch of salt.

 

I'm one of the ones who see  saw the Rian trilogy as brave and exciting.

 

But I agree with you, it's not going to happen. Because I agree the fanbase is split 50/50 on this. But the naysayers are much much louder. You can't see a single TLJ thread on Facebook without it instantly being cluttered up with people talking about what a trash fire is and how Rian is human garbage.

 

There won't be a Rian trilogy in the same way as the gender swapped Ghostbusters is dead. If the movie company doesn't kill it because of risk (and insurance companies won't underwrite it because of that risk) then I suspect that Rian will eventually throw his arms up and walk away because life's too short to deal with a large loud group saying that your work is rubbish. (In much the same way that I doubt that there would be no sum of money large enough to tempt Leslie Jones back to do another Ghostbusters movie ever again.)

 

My opinion. This is why we can't have nice things. I suspect others mileage may vary.

  • Upvote 7
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/02/2018 at 21:06, Nick R said:

I liked the fact that Rey's parents turn out to be nobodies.

 

But the bit where I really felt a big mismatch between TFA and TLJ was that in the first film, it comes across like she has some very specific reason to expect that her parents would be back soon: it seems like she's only been off the planet and with Han a few hours when she says something like "I've already been away too long."

 

I saw that as her dealing with the whole "sunk cost" thinking that can stop loads of people from moving forward. "I've been sitting in this shitheap for almost two decades, that can't have all been for nowt!"

 

My take on her parents. Kylo might know everything. Or he might be making stuff up to get in her head.

 

It isn't important. You grow up in a shit heap and poverty and the allure of that fantasy, that fairytale that you're actually important, you're someone  and all you need is a droid or an owl or something to raise you out of the muck can be a sort of trap to stop you doing anything.

 

That moment where Rey has to suddenly deal with the possibility that her parents are nothing, that she is nothing has it's own magic. Because instead of crushing her it steels her resolve. If she isn't in it up to her neck with some of the most powerful people in the galaxy because of who she is or who she kows it means she's there because she means something. Because she saw the opportunity and acted on it. Because maybe instead of being recongnised as important she made herself important. And yeah, some of that might be unexplained talent, some of it might be determination winning out over skills (I don't get the criticism of her knowing how to use a lightsaber, in that fight in TFA it's obvious she doesn't, that is a messy messy fight more akin to street fighting than martial arts.)

 

It's a departure from Star Wars lore. But in some ways it's a more empowering one. That kid with that broom. Instead of dreaming that he might be lifted up and empowered by virtue of birth he can be that change.

 

In any case, it was a brave experiment with the franchise.

  • Upvote 7
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why the Johnson trilogy won't happen - there are millions and millions of Star Wars fans out there, and if we all listened to the nay sayers on the white noise of the internet, nothing would ever get done.

 

Some Star Wars criticism (note I said *some* - plenty is perfectly valid, there have been some good points raised on this thread - I don't have to agree with it to acknowledge it) is criticism for the sake of criticism and I think some of the criticism of this film has been utterly ridiculous.

 

I'd hope Disney are able to see through some of the nonsense, yet take some of the valid concerns on board when the franchise expands to new projects.

 

Disney haven't got everything right since they bought Lucasfilm, but personally I think they're doing a decent job and I'm enjoying the Star Wars output in recent years.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

I don't see why the Johnson trilogy won't happen - there are millions and millions of Star Wars fans out there, and if we all listened to the nay sayers on the white noise of the internet, nothing would ever get done.

 

 

I'd love to believe that but the past four years in gaming has shown me otherwise. I've seen a lot of talented people walk away from projects or from the industry altogether after dealing with backlashes from loud fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I'd love to believe that but the past four years in gaming has shown me otherwise. I've seen a lot of talented people walk away from projects or from the industry altogether after dealing with backlashes from loud fans.

 

I wouldn't know about the gaming industry but surely there's still demand for Star Wars movies? 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After time to reflect, my biggest criticism with the film is that it's a bit... dull. My earlier criticism (that the pacing is off) is a big part of it, but it's also that as an adventure it's not very exciting. It's fine to argue the toss over representation, theme, tone, and various levels of narrative sophistication (I think it scores highly in all those areas), but for me the pew-pew stuff ain't much cop. 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

 

I wouldn't know about the gaming industry but surely there's still demand for Star Wars movies? 

 

I suspect the points being made is that with takings being down on TLJ and associated franchises (toys, videogames) as well as poor user ratings and a very loud contingent of hardcore fans taking every opportunity to trash TLJ on social media it would be less risky to either get JJ to do the next movie strictly in the George Lucas style with no surprises or do a Highlander 2 and pretend TLJ never happened.

 

Demand for Star Wars is there but only for the right sort of Star Wars.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they get George Lucas in to do the next trilogy. It's what the (loudest) fans want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Predictions for Star Wars 9: Retcon Of The Dark Side

 

*Hux has a mysterious lunchbox, and you never get to find out what's in it.

*Poe Dameron is the real hero, he wears a fedora and he punches a whole platoon of stormtroopers to death while Metallica or something badass like that plays.

*The weird little orange thing with goggles reveals that Kylo was lying about Rey's parents and her dad is actually Chewie, who has lots of dormant midi-chlorians.

*There's a new Death Star like thing, and Kylo says "witness the power of this fully operational battle station!"

*The comic relief ethnic characters spend the whole film in an escape pod, until a barechested Cameron Poe rescues them at the end.

*Really weak ending, leaving lots of unresolved mysteries.

  • Upvote 7
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, MechE said:

Also JJ went to great lengths to point of that Chewie's bowcaster was a comically overpowered weapon, so Kylo was dealing with a pretty significant wound during that fight.

 

Funnily enough, of all the issues people had with TFA (the majority of which didn't bother me in the least), one that I don't recall seeing anyone else mention before was actually a bit of a problem for me; in all the years they've been together, how come Han had never had a go on Chewie's bowcaster before? I'm on board with the reasons why they made a point of ensuring the audience knew how powerful it was (as MechE said above) but I'm sure there could have been a better way of doing it. I think having either Rey or Finn grab it and start blasting after Chewie gets shot and go "wow!" when she / he sees the damage it can do would have worked better. Tiny detail though, no biggie really.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I would have called myself a fan but I've been told I'm not anymore because I liked The Last Jedi.

 

Who's told you that, and why would liking The Lat Jedi make you lose your fanboy credentials?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, JPL said:

 

Who's told you that, and why would liking The Lat Jedi make you lose your fanboy credentials?

 

Randoms on the internet. Doesn't get deeper than that because I bail on that sort of debate on Facebook.

 

It's really weird, I remember when fan culture was all about trying to get people interested in what you liked, not acting like cultural gatekeepers.

 

At least here (in rllmuk) we can have some decent debate :)

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MechE said:

She had no experience of lightsabers, but from what we saw of her on Jakku she's not the sort to back away from a fight, and she certainly knows how to hit people with sticks. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine she's had to defend herself her whole life.

 

Wielding a lightsaber is just a sub-set of her well developed 'hitting people with sticks' skill set. Also JJ went to great lengths to point of that Chewie's bowcaster was a comically overpowered weapon, so Kylo was dealing with a pretty significant wound during that fight.

 

There's also the fact that he's in serious emotional turmoil after killing his own dad. IIRC, Snoke claimed that's why he was beaten by her.

 

2 hours ago, Mr Cochese said:

*There's a new Death Star like thing, and Kylo says "witness the power of this fully operational battle station!"

 

YES

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.