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Star Wars: The Last Jedi


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Overall I loved every minute, yes

 

Spoiler

even the casino! And I liked Lucy... or Rose... or whatever her name was.

 

One thing that did bother me though was:

 

Spoiler

How did Rey get from Snoke's mahoosive ship, back onto the Falcon? 

 

And that reminds me of another great line:

 

"They really hate that ship!" lol

 

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I forgot about the bit with

Spoiler

Maz on the view screen. It looked really strange to me, the way she was flipping and spinning around blasting away then sky rocketing off. It looked like the opening montage of an 80's cartoon, like Ulysses 31 or something lol. And who was filming her.

I'll definitely be buying the Bluray when it's released. There is a lot to drink in, highs and lows. EDIT* Does that Maz bit have a Rocket Raccoon vibe? Just flashed in my mind as I was typing it out.

 

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I feel I need to watch this again to take it all in. So much stuff to take in and absorb. An emotional rollercoaster.

 

But, man, it's such a Frankenstein of a movie, with weird shifts in tone (out of place jokes), plot threads that go nowhere, redundant characters, more contrived rug-pulling moments than I can count. I don't think it's going to hold up to repeat viewings, as much of the plot is essentially pointless.

 

But, yeah, whoo! What a ride. I can't add much else, it's been covered by others here at length already.

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I saw this last night, overall I thought it was great but I had a few issues. Usually amounting to flabbiness where two or more characters or sequences could have been rolled together.

Spoiler

 

  • Too many fake deaths. Almost every single character dies and then isn't dead at least once. Often pointlessly.
  • Leia. Holdo's death should have been Leias. Somehow combine with the earlier shot of crystalline Leia floating in space at the heart of everything as a final tribute to Carrie. Get rid of Holdo entirely. I love Laura Dern but it was one character too many. Leia's spacewalk/injury/return was awkward, I'm sure it could have been rejigged for her to have her final meeting with Luke and then sacrifice herself via Holdo's death, and wind up floating in space as per the earlier scene. A bit more obvious but a lot more satisfying.
  • Snoke. I don't mind that we didn't get a big backstory but something more than we knew in TFA would have raised the stakes a little.
  • Luke's whole final sequence. It was obvious he wasn't there as soon as they showed he didn't leave red marks on the ground. Why not have Luke actually go there, sacrifice himself Obi-Wan style to distract Kylo, and have his final moments looking at a dual sunrise. It was already very good and moving in the final film, but could have been simpler.
  • The whole Finn plotline was a little bit pointless and Phantom Menacey. Which made me wonder why they bothered with the CG wolfhorse guys. They could have called back to the only good thing about TPM and had a nice podrace sequence where the pods rampage through the city and casino. I would have much preferred to dump the whole Finn plotline (even though Kanto Bight was really cool!) and have a much longer Rey training sequence and some backstory on Snoke. Dump the Maz Kanata bit too, she was never very good.
     

Bits that I liked/loved:

  • Nothing happened as I thought it would.
  • Adam Driver was excellent. Mark Hamill was excellent.
  • Rey's parentage was a great fuck you twist to fanboys everywhere and much preferred to the everyone-is-related tiny universe problem of typical Star Wars.
  • It was funny. Really really funny. Which I didn't expect given the Rashomon in space marketing.
  • The porgs. I thought I'd hate them but they went so unashamedly cute and silly with them that they won me over.
  • Adrian Edmondson?
  • The moments where it touched on the whole empire/republic cycle needing to be broken for good. Got the feeling Disney may have muted this a little.
  • Luke aggressively drinking blue milk
  • The whole Rey/Kylo story was excellent including the final fight against the praetorian guards, but did get a little messy right at the end. 

 

It's all quite a lot to take in after a single viewing but I'm interesting to see what people think of it. Reddit seems to HATE it.

 

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4 hours ago, Darren said:

For those of you who aren't canon nerds, there is a little hint about Snoke in the book Aftermath: Empire's End, which takes place about a year after Return of the Jedi.

 

 

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Sidious became aware of a "dark presence" beyond the uncharted regions of the galaxy. His last will and testament was basically to get his most loyal insiders to destroy the remnants of the Empire - basically he wanted the ship to go down with its captain. But while he was still alive he was trying to reach out to this "dark presence":

 


 

"Before Palpatine’s demise at the hands of the rebels, the computers finished their calculations, finally finding a way through the unknown. The Emperor was convined that something waited for him out there – some origin of the force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance. The Emperor called it a signal – conveniently one that only he could hear. Even his greatest enforcer, Vader, seemed oblivious to it…"

 

But things didn't go according to his plan - he was killed before he could contact this entity. And the Imperial remnants fought amongst themselves, with the survivors finally heading off in along the course the Emperor had plotted for himself. So it's hinted that they reached this dark presence and from there set about rebuilding to reconquer the galaxy and take revenge for being driven out in the first place. Whether Snoke is the dark presence or just a powerful force user influenced by it, we don't know. But either way he turned the remnants into the First Order, and while they were building their new forces he found Ben Solo through the force and (as we now know from the new film) set about corrupting him from afar.

 

 

 

I accept that the film shouldn't rely on knowledge of the spin-off books though, especially when all of the above could have been covered in a line or two of dialogue.

 

 

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After Snoke was killed, Rey could have asked "Who was he?" and Kylo could have said something like "The force is so much more than you understand, or than the Jedi or Sith understood. He was from beyond our galaxy. He was more powerful than the old Emperor. And he gathered what was left of the old Empire and used it to create the First Order."

 


This is what irks me though, if the above has anything to do with Snoke:

Spoiler

 

in the TFA he is presented as the new master, the new evil. People were intrigued because the movie made Snoke intriguing. Who is he? Where was he just 50 years ago? Who trained him? How is he so powerful? So many interesting questions raised in order to create an interesting evil character. And just as we are about to start to know him, he gets killed, like a simpleton really.

 

Based on what you say he was also more powerful than the emperor (!), who in his late years took on four kick ass Jedi and killed three of them, and yet he gets taken down by a simple mind trick and by someone who is having trouble even to fully embrace the power of the dark side? Ridiculous. There is not even a conflict between master and student. Kylo is clearly trying to win his favor. I understand that it was his internal conflict that made him help Rey and kill Snoke, but man it was handled horribly! The Snoke plotline ended up being truly awful - and to cap all this, the shot of his half upper body, tongue out, just brought laughter. Really, really bad. 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Moz said:

I saw this last night, overall I thought it was great but I had a few issues. Usually amounting to flabbiness where two or more characters or sequences could have been rolled together.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  • Too many fake deaths. Almost single character dies and then isn't dead at least once. Often pointlessly.
  • Leia. Holdo's death should have been Leias. Somehow combine with the earlier shot of crystalline Leia floating in space at the heart of everything as a final tribute to Carrie. Get rid of Holdo entirely. I love Laura Dern but it was one character too many. Leia's spacewalk/injury/return was awkward, I'm sure it could have been rejigged for her to have her final meeting with Luke and then sacrifice herself via Holdo's death, and wind up floating in space as per the earlier scene. A bit more obvious but a lot more satisfying.
  • Snoke. I don't mind that we didn't get a big backstory but something more than we knew in TFA would have raised the stakes a little.
  • Luke's whole final sequence. It was obvious he wasn't there as soon as they showed he didn't leave red marks on the ground. Why not have Luke actually go there, sacrifice himself Obi-Wan style to distract Kylo, and have his final moments looking at a dual sunrise. It was already very good and moving in the final film, but could have been simpler.
  • The whole Finn plotline was a little bit pointless and Phantom Menacey. Which made me wonder why they bothered with the CG wolfhorse guys. They could have called back to the only good thing about TPM and had a nice podrace sequence where the pods rampage through the city and casino. I would have much preferred to dump the whole Finn plotline (even though Kanto Bight was really cool!) and have a much longer Rey training sequence and some backstory on Snoke. Dump the Maz Kanata bit too, she was never very good.
     

Bits that I liked/loved:

  • Nothing happened as I thought it would.
  • Adam Driver was excellent. Mark Hamill was excellent.
  • Rey's parentage was a great fuck you twist to fanboys everywhere and much preferred to the everyone-is-related tiny universe problem of typical Star Wars.
  • It was funny. Really really funny. Which I didn't expect given the Rashomon in space marketing.
  • The porgs. I thought I'd hate them but they went so unashamedly cute and silly with them that they won me over.
  • Adrian Edmondson?
  • The moments where it touched on the whole empire/republic cycle needing to be broken for good. Got the feeling Disney may have muted this a little.
  • Luke aggressively drinking blue milk
  • The whole Rey/Kylo story was excellent including the final fight against the praetorian guards, but did get a little messy right at the end. 

 

It's all quite a lot to take in after a single viewing but I'm interesting to see what people think of it. Reddit seems to HATE it.

 

 

The only good thing about TPM was the ending duel of kick ass Darth Maul. What are you on about? :P

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1 hour ago, Moz said:

I

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  • The whole Finn plotline was a little bit pointless and Phantom Menacey. Which made me wonder why they bothered with the CG wolfhorse guys. They could have called back to the only good thing about TPM and had a nice podrace sequence where the pods rampage through the city and casino. I would have much preferred to dump the whole Finn plotline (even though Kanto Bight was really cool!) and have a much longer Rey training sequence and some backstory on Snoke. Dump the Maz Kanata bit too, she was never very good.

 

Spoiler

For me, whilst I thought Canto Bight was the weakest part of the film, it was useful in terms of giving Finn a motive beyond simply getting back together with Rey for some more of that sweet, sweet hand holding he enjoys. He now understands the bigger injustices at play and is willing to die for the greater good. His character's come a long way in this film which hopefully pays off nicely in the next one.

 

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Kermode's review is pretty much on the money for me. Everything in the film is there to serve character arcs, and there's a lot of characters, so the whole thing can feel busy at times... but there's nothing I'd remove from there apart from tiny little quibbles - 

 

 

 


Maz Kanta on the phone while she's in a 3rd person shooter was a bit "...er..,ok...".

 

I enjoyed the casino-land section and what it did for Finn and Rose's character arcs, but the social commentary, showing the mega rich served by the down troddin' is a little heavy handed and CGI Llama race was a bit... err.... :/

 

I didn't have a problem with floating Leia.

 
 

 

 

 

So there yah go. I very much enjoyed it and am looking forwards to watching it again in a few days. 

 

Also some of these proposed fixes to the story are hilarious, often obliterating giant chunks of the narrative for the sake of making some kinda of pedantic logical "sense". 

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23 minutes ago, MechE said:
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For me, whilst I thought Canto Bight was the weakest part of the film, it was useful in terms of giving Finn a motive beyond simply getting back together with Rey for some more of that sweet, sweet hand holding he enjoys. He now understands the bigger injustices at play and is willing to die for the greater good. His character's come a long way in this film which hopefully pays off nicely in the next one.

 

 

That's true

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There is a real split between critics and audience reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. Like 90+ Vs 65. I think the critics are getting caught up in the arcs and message a bit too much.

 

That said, I struggle with what Rey's arc is. 

 

Spoiler

There is the revelation that her parents are a nobodies, which sort of gives her something, but she's fundamentally the same character at the start and end of the film. There's no great change, unlike Poe or Finn. 

 

It's also about the only hole with Luke's plot. Luke must know that going off to face Kylo and Snoke ends in either death or another Supervillain. Empire happened! Vader wrecked him and Yoda actually trained him a bit. As broken as he is, he can't really allow that?

 

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And another thing, regarding the ending.

Spoiler

To those saying why didn't Luke just meet Kylo face to face. 

 

He believed he'd already wronged Ben Solo. The last thing he wanted to do was cause any more conflict. 

 

That ending was perfect.

 

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41 minutes ago, kensei said:

There is a real split between critics and audience reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. Like 90+ Vs 65. I think the critics are getting caught up in the arcs and message a bit too much.

 

Personally, I am hesitant about trusting audience scores for films with this kind of following and fans.  I mean, they would convince me that Justice League was a great movie.  

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4 minutes ago, makkuwata said:

Hmm. I’m confused. I’m pretty sure I didn’t like this. Guess I need to watch it 2 more times over the weekend to make sure.

I feel like that. There are things I didn't enjoy about it, but the more I think about the stuff I did like, that stuff is really, really good. 

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