Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[Delargey]

37 minutes ago, Unregistered User said:

Yeah but the story and characters were shit. 

 

 

 

The Luke/Rey/Ren bits were the best story strand though...it's the slow chase and space casino which were lame!

[kensei]

3 hours ago, Delargey said:

 

Didn't he try to stop Rey from leaving though...She didn't want to stay and Luke would have known from his own past that some times people have to find there own way.

 

Rey didn't want Luke's teaching, she rejected it...Rey wanted to find her own way (even if that way resulted in her death...just as Luke facing Vader may have resulted in his death).

 

Rey leaving, confronting Snoke and as a result confronting her own past helped her grow as a character and as a person.

 

I'm not going to convince you it was the best way to tell the story (or the only way to tell the story) nor you convince me the other but the actions where in keeping with the characters and progressed the story.

 

It wasn't experimenting with a bit of weed, it was death or turning into a monster. It's a deeply ignoble act. 

 

His teachings? Not so hot either. "The Light can't die", no but it can disappear for quite a bit, and leave the universe to genocidal Space Nazis that you actually lived through. "The legacy of the Jedi is hubris" - thanks for blowing your redemption of them in ROTJ. And the deleted one was a prank. 

 

Rey just turns up and stuff happens. I've not believed her to be in jeopardy in any scene she's been in. Had they had her go with Kylo I'd have been floored. That might have made IX real interesting. 

 

I'm not going to convince you either. Just trying to illuminate why it's such a divisive film. It's obviously been heavily thought about. It ties up in its own terms. But it does radically alter Luke's character and undermine a lot that went before, without a particularly great pay off, or, indeed, following through.

 

It's still the strongest strand of the film, and if I just run with it and let Hammil's performance stand out I can sort of see your end. Its just one of those films I find so easy to pick at when I stop and think on it, though. 

[Mr Cochese]

I also thought Rey should have joined with Emo Ren to run the galaxy. After Luke’s teachings about the balance of the Force and the hubris of the Jedi it would make sense for her to think she can temper his scowliness with her plucky attitude. That would’ve been a proper cliffhanger.

[Sarlaccfood]

7 hours ago, Darren said:

 

I think this is the problem for a lot of people (not aimed at Smitty specifically) in a nutshell.

 

Luke is a tragic figure in TLJ. He's failed, and in his failure he's unleashed Kylo Ren on the universe, and he's compounded his failure by retreating into himself, sabotaging his only means of escape, cutting himself off from the people who love him, people in general, and even the force itself. All he wants to do is live out his days until death. Rey comes to deliver another call to action and he rejects it, and her, and tragically only realises he's wrong to do so after he's pushed her away, when it's too late to follow. So he does the only thing he can from where he's trapped himself, which is to say his final farewells, plant a seed of doubt in Kylo's mind, and buy his friends time to escape their own doom. It's a redemptive arc and it echoes Vader's in ROTJ, an epiphany that comes too late and ultimately costs him his life but buys safety for those he loves and the peace he craves for himself.

 

That to me is much more interesting and satisfying than Luke the hero picking up where he left off 35 years earlier. But I can see why it's a disappointment to some people.

 

Another possible bummer is that Rey doesn't even know Luke came good in the end.

[Delargey]

3 hours ago, kensei said:

 

It wasn't experimenting with a bit of weed, it was death or turning into a monster. It's a deeply ignoble act

 

It's the exact same thing that Yoda does though.He went into hiding, and let the Empire grow (when he could have really helped the rebellion)

He didn't want to train Luke and then reluctantly trained him then helped him fly off to face death or being turned.If it's bad in one, it's bad in the other. 

 

(What is bad is that it's a rehash)

 

I agree that Rey joining Ren would be awesome...Or if they both rejected thier groups.

 

The movie is very devisive...personally I dislike the bits outside of Luke/Ren/Rey which I think are weaker and I didn't want to see Luke in the wise teacher role as that felt to close to what we had seen before.

 

Hamils performance definitely sold it though. 

 

 

[Unofficial Who]

19 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

My membership has run out so I can't see who's negstalking me. 

But whoever it is, have a golfclap... and I really hope the do remaking The Last Jedi for you and it's everything you hoped it would be. 

 

 

 

It's not me (I'm enjoying your posts.) But the same person is negging me as well. In my case given

 

-he's not the only person who has negged my posts

-not many have possed them

 

I can only assume that I'm not making my points well enough or I'm making shitty posts. It's useful feedback to have.

[Kevvy Metal]

On 23/06/2018 at 10:08, Unofficial Who said:

 

It's not me (I'm enjoying your posts.) But the same person is negging me as well. In my case given

 

-he's not the only person who has negged my posts

-not many have possed them

 

I can only assume that I'm not making my points well enough or I'm making shitty posts. It's useful feedback to have.

 

Mine are often devisive with pos and negs, which I’m totally cool with, I like to think if it’s decisive then it’s kinda a good thing. 

 

Its the annoying neg stalker who obviously has a bone to pick, who is being silly. 

[Dirty Harry Potter]

I’ve negged some of your posts Kevvy. Not because I’m following you - but because I don’t agree with them, or like their tone. Nothing personal.

 

 

 

 

[Kevvy Metal]

4 hours ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

I’ve negged some of your posts Kevvy. Not because I’m following you - but because I don’t agree with them, or like their tone. Nothing personal.

 

 

 

 

 

I generally avoid negging posts purely on the notion that I don’t agree with the content, but I do neg posts that I think are a bit disruptive or silly. 

 

...in saying that, I’ve negged several of your posts over time, as I don’t like the tone. Nothing personal.

[Chadruharazzeb]

Congratulations you two on figuring out what the rep system is for. 

[Uncle Mike]

Now go make out.

[Smitty]

69, even better

[JPL]

Who’s the neg and who’s the pos?

[jonamok]

And who’s the milky droplet?

[Steven]

20 hours ago, Sarlaccfood said:

 

Rey doesn't even know Luke came good in the end.

 Was he having a tug on that rock?

[Delargey]

8 hours ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

I’ve negged some of your posts Kevvy. Not because I’m following you - but because I don’t agree with them, or like their tone. Nothing personal.

 

 

 

 

 

While I didn't neg kevvy, in the tv and forum thread I sometimes neg people for thier taste in movies in the same way you would shake your head if someone said Prometheus was a great movie.

 

It's not that they can't enjoy it but just I think that it's  that rubbish. I don't mean anything more than I agree or disagree by them. 

[Dirty Harry Potter]

14 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

...in saying that, I’ve negged several of your posts over time, as I don’t like the tone. Nothing personal.

 

Im not the one whinging about being negged. 

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

 

Im not the one whinging about being negged. 

 

I know, that’s correct. You’re the one who continually whinges about The Last Jedi. 

[Unofficial Who]

1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

I know, that’s correct. You’re the one who continually whinges about The Last Jedi. 

 

It’s not his whinging. It’s his opinion. You could turn that around and say we’re the ones constantly defending a movie months after its release.

 

I’ve said it before, the debate on both sides here is much more interesting and less awful here than almost everywhere else online.

[Kevvy Metal]

2 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

It’s not his whinging. It’s his opinion. You could turn that around and say we’re the ones constantly defending a movie months after its release.

 

I’ve said it before, the debate on both sides here is much more interesting and less awful here than almost everywhere else online.

 

I’m kinda being a bit facetious with it. 

[Pelekophoros]

Watched this again last night. Still think it's the best Star Wars after Empire. Rey/Kylo storyline is really well handled, grumpy Luke brilliantly realised, and some of the shots in here are pure fucking Star Wars art. Fist pumping stuff.

 

It's still about 10-15 minutes too long though, if I'm honest, the casino felt less draggy this time around. There's definitely a better version of that sub plot somewhere that doesn't feature Del Toro or the man from Lazy Town, but it soon passed by regardless. Slow chase was still better in Battlestar Galactica but I liked it.

 

Salt planet battle is fan fucking tastic.

 

Love the way Ren draws his weapon too. And that lightsaber battle is the best.

[S0L]

I’m enjoying the discussion in here. I love the original trilogy and for me, I view both the prequels and modern trilogy so far as fan fiction, I can take them or leave them as they’re at best emulating something I love or they are betraying it to some degree.

 

The odd thing for me is the big gap was filled by games and books which I think to some degree did a better job of filling out the universe in a way that made sense and expanded on it.

 

As much as I love Rogue One, I’m pretty sure I stormed that base as Kyle Katarn to liberate the Death Star plans in a way that was only the opening act to later taking out Dark Troopers before the Force awakened in me. Though it was weird when I fought side by side with Max that time...

 

And I sit and scoff at the really amateur way some pilots like Poe dont charge their front sheilds before a frontal assault on some First Order Dreadnaught, especially as if he could for a moment, just resist hitting the trigger, he could dump the charge from the laser banks into the shield as needed and then let loose wth the torpedoes that don’t take any energy from the power distribution systems.

 

And thus is the problem. When you’ve realised ‘wait a minute, this Revan guy sounds awfully familiar...’ it’s always going to be uphill compared to the original stories, the ones you’ve lived through and the ones you’ve imagined.

 

Like I say, fan fiction, its someone else having a go at telling a new story in a universe I know and love, but its up to me if I like it. I consider Tie Fighter as cannon, Masters of Teras Kasi can do one (though it was nice it was referenced in Solo!).

 

I can only imagine how terrible a design by comittee fan finaced venture of TLJ would be, but I’d still give it a watch

 

 

[Nick R]

PORGS

 

 

PORGS

 

(Target Porg #2 at 2:02 is the best Porg.)

 

Spoiler

Porgs

 

[Unofficial Who]

Giant Porg is clearly the winner at 2:50

[Smitty]

Just had it pointed out to me that Finn knew that TFO had a hyperspace tracker (he was mopping there) and didn't tell anyone about it before the scene where it is mentioned in this. The same as he didn't tell anyone that TFO had a functional Super Deathstar (he also mopped there) that they were planning to attack the Republic with in TFA.

 

Oh, and I didn't really see it mentioned but the other thing not followed up from TFA is the Knights of Ren. Or how or why Maz had Luke's lightsabre.

 

 

[Darren]

Finn is a deserter, he doesn't want to join or even help the Resistance. His entire motivation in TFA is (1) run away from the baddies (2) hey this Rey's a hottie, perhaps she'll run away with me and let me get in her knickers. He basically begs her to do this (the running away bit, the knickers thing is merely implied) at Maz's castle and when she refuses, he leaves her with Han and sets off hitchhiking across the galaxy with a pair of random alien dudes. He only gets dragged back into the gang again because before he's even on the ship the entire place is attacked, and he sees Rey get kidnapped by Kylo Ren. Then he even lies to Leia and co in the big TFA attack planning meeting that he knows how to disable the shield, which he only confesses to Han once they're already there - and admits that he's only there to rescue Rey. And he's still the same at the beginning of TLJ, which is why his first words are "Where's Rey?" He doesn't know much about the First Order's plans or tech, and he's not there to tell them what he does know. Which is why Rose catches him trying to run away again. It takes his experiences with Rose, and seeing where his "I'm not on anyone's side" stance leads in DJ (a character who plays an important part in Finn's development but is poorly executed, which is a real shame) to persuade him finally to commit to the Resistance.

 

The Knights of Ren are the other Jedi apprentices that Ben/Kylo didn't kill - Luke tells Rey that he killed some and recruited the rest (or words to that effect). Given their absence from both films I assume he eventually killed all of them too but perhaps they're off on a special mission somewhere and will return for Ep 9.

 

Maz having Luke's lightsaber is just a story for another time! (Probably in one of the books...) i.e. JJ couldn't think of an explanation but wanted Rey to find it anyway.

[Smitty]

1 hour ago, Darren said:

Finn is a deserter, he doesn't want to join or even help the Resistance. His entire motivation in TFA is (1) run away from the baddies (2) hey this Rey's a hottie, perhaps she'll run away with me and let me get in her knickers. He basically begs her to do this (the running away bit, the knickers thing is merely implied) at Maz's castle and when she refuses, he leaves her with Han and sets off hitchhiking across the galaxy with a pair of random alien dudes. He only gets dragged back into the gang again because before he's even on the ship the entire place is attacked, and he sees Rey get kidnapped by Kylo Ren. Then he even lies to Leia and co in the big TFA attack planning meeting that he knows how to disable the shield, which he only confesses to Han once they're already there - and admits that he's only there to rescue Rey. And he's still the same at the beginning of TLJ, which is why his first words are "Where's Rey?" He doesn't know much about the First Order's plans or tech, and he's not there to tell them what he does know. Which is why Rose catches him trying to run away again. It takes his experiences with Rose, and seeing where his "I'm not on anyone's side" stance leads in DJ (a character who plays an important part in Finn's development but is poorly executed, which is a real shame) to persuade him finally to commit to the Resistance.

 

The Knights of Ren are the other Jedi apprentices that Ben/Kylo didn't kill - Luke tells Rey that he killed some and recruited the rest (or words to that effect). Given their absence from both films I assume he eventually killed all of them too but perhaps they're off on a special mission somewhere and will return for Ep 9.

 

Maz having Luke's lightsaber is just a story for another time! (Probably in one of the books...) i.e. JJ couldn't think of an explanation but wanted Rey to find it anyway.

 

I hate finn and I hate you*! You're not even my real dad!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I don't hate you xxx

[gizmo1990]

Great stuff from Grace, very interesting if true!

 

 

[JPL]

God, she’s not annoying at all.

 

Is she trustworthy then, because she didn’t back up any of her claims with any kind of evidence. Sounds like a bunch of hearsay to me, although I think it’d be a good start to getting things in order. I’m just dubious as to whether to believe her or not.

[Dirty Harry Potter]

She’s an industry follower who loves gossip and box office numbers. I like her and think she is often bang on about the big franchises and Hollywood trends in general.

 

Wouldnt surprise me at all - that she would get leaks from reliable people, who just want to get the truth out.