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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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Here @SMD, if you like TLJ so much, you should give Lucas’ second Star Wars trilogy a go. They’ll probably blow your mind.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

@SMD fair enough, to each his own etc, although I have no idea what you see in TLJ. To me it's like you're arguing that Terminator Genisys is better than Terminator 1 and in a decade or so the rest of the world will agree.

 

 

Mate I haven't even watched the trailer for that.

 

Just now, JPL said:

Here @SMD, if you like TLJ so much, you should give Lucas’ second Star Wars trilogy a go. They’ll probably blow your mind.

 

I love them, and they're all on Youtube so you can watch them anywhere you want:

 

 

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Just now, SMD said:

Mate I haven't even watched the trailer for that

That's a shame because now you don't get what I'm trying to say... You should watch Genisys - not because it's a good movie, but because I can't be bothered to think of another suitable comparison. 

 

And maybe you'll end up really liking it!

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1 minute ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

That's a shame because now you don't get what I'm trying to say... You should watch Genisys - not because it's a good movie, but because I can't be bothered to think of another suitable comparison. 

 

And maybe you'll end up really liking it!

 

I was made to see Terminator Salvation.

 

 

Never again.

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Genisys is probably better than salvation, the first 20mins is great fun. The rest of the movie, less so.

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I like the film but even I can agree that the execution of the slow-chase through space just doesn't work.

 

1) Why didn't the First Order just have a couple of Star Destroyers jump to lightspeed to a point ahead of the Resistance? Or above them, or below them (as we see Finn and co. do later on), given that space is a unlimited 3D space; there was simply no reason to continue chasing them at sub-light speed as if they were on rails.

 

2) Even if they couldn't do the above for reasons, surely they didn't need DJ to clue them in on the plan to evacuate to the old Rebel base on the only planet nearby? 
"Hmmm. These guys are flying awfully close to that planet in the middle of absolutely nowhere but I guess they'll just continue flying into deep space, despite their fuel reserves running out." 
Even Admiral Ozzel would have noticed that and had ships barricading the planet and/or ground troops deployed.

 

 

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I quite enjoyed Genesys. It was a bad film, but it was a bad film that consisted of awful ideas that were executed with great skill and professionalism. As soon as the T-1000 turned up in the otherwise perfectly recreated LA of 1984, I knew I was in for some entertaining ridiculousness.

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6 hours ago, SMD said:

 

In a year, consensus will be more favourable and in ten it'll be considered a stone cold classic.

 

I completely agree, it's just a matter of time before it's re-assessed with a little more clairvoyance and a lot less pointlessly pedantic autopsy nit-picking for stupid reasons.  

 

 

12 minutes ago, Glasgowchivas said:

I like the film but even I can agree that the execution of the slow-chase through space just doesn't work.

 

1) Why didn't the First Order just have a couple of Star Destroyers jump to lightspeed to a point ahead of the Resistance? Or above them, or below them (as we see Finn and co. do later on), given that space is a unlimited 3D space; there was simply no reason to continue chasing them at sub-light speed as if they were on rails.

 

2) Even if they couldn't do the above for reasons, surely they didn't need DJ to clue them in on the plan to evacuate to the old Rebel base on the only planet nearby? 
"Hmmm. These guys are flying awfully close to that planet in the middle of absolutely nowhere but I guess they'll just continue flying into deep space, despite their fuel reserves running out." 
Even Admiral Ozzel would have noticed that and had ships barricading the planet and/or ground troops deployed.

 

 

 

1) Because that would just end the film and.. dunno, make Neil Degrasse Tyson happy? 

In a sci-fi fantasy that has a large degree of accepting contrivances, why is this even a thing that some-one would be bothered about? The whole point of the scene is to show that the Rebels are dead-in-the-water and the ominous First Order and stalking them. It's all gloating on their part, and they're drinking in the kill... in fact, it's totally aping and riffing on ships out at sea. Das Boot in Space or some shit. 

It's like getting mad at a Bond villain explaining their motivations just before Bond's inevitable death. 

 

2) They're cloaked. DJ sold them out, giving them the rough where abouts. They wouldn't of noticed them other wise. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, K said:

I quite enjoyed Genesys. It was a bad film, but it was a bad film that consisted of awful ideas that were executed with great skill and professionalism. As soon as the T-1000 turned up in the otherwise perfectly recreated LA of 1984, I knew I was in for some entertaining ridiculousness.

 

I agree. It felt quite obvious to me that Genesys was shooting for completely dumb, Frank Miller-esque comic book pulp. 

It's immensely stupid and contrived and that's totally the tone of the film. I thought it was loads of fun.

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

I completely agree, it's just a matter of time before it's re-assessed with a little more clairvoyance and a lot less pointlessly pedantic autopsy nit-picking for stupid reasons.  

 

 

 

1) Because that would just end the film and.. dunno, make Neil Degrasse Tyson happy? 

In a sci-fi fantasy that has a large degree of accepting contrivances, why is this even a thing that some-one would be bothered about? 

 

Star Wars has less of these contrivances though, most of what happens and why people do things make sense, which is why it's a considered a better film than the Last Jedi.

 

I really enjoyed the movie but it had sections that were weak and could have been better written.

 

While I do think Last Jedi will be looked on more favourably in the future, it's not going to be generally considered better than the orginal.

 

 

 

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I never said it didn't make sense though or that they never explained it - which was @scottcr's immediate reaction - but rather my point was that the galaxy's slowest spacecar chase is a silly and rather unexciting concept to base most of a movie around, never mind a big new Star Wars episode. It comes across as a parody of Star Wars and there's no sense of danger or spectacle at all. They might as well have shown two snails chasing each other indefinitely in a garden somewhere far, far away. Mel Brooks would at least have made something funny out of it, as it is now TLJ takes its space snail chase dead serious and the movie feels like it lasts forever just like that ludicrous chase.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I never said it didn't make sense though or that they never explained it - which was @scottcr's immediate reaction - vut rather my point was that the galaxy's slowest spacecar chase is a silly and rather unexciting concept to base most of a movie around, never mind a big new Star Wars episode. It comes across as a parody of Star Wars and there's sense if danger or spectacle at all. They might as well have shown two snails chasing each other indefinitely in a garden somewhere far, far away.

 

 

It would be a fine plot for an episode of farscape, it wasn't right for Star Wars and they could have found a much better way to convey the drama and tension than the slow chase...just having the rebels trapped under siege in the old cave would have been more oppressive and dramatic.

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8 minutes ago, Orko said:

 

Clearly, you do not. 

 

1rHf.gif

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1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

1) Because that would just end the film and.. dunno, make Neil Degrasse Tyson happy? 

In a sci-fi fantasy that has a large degree of accepting contrivances, why is this even a thing that some-one would be bothered about? The whole point of the scene is to show that the Rebels are dead-in-the-water and the ominous First Order and stalking them. It's all gloating on their part, and they're drinking in the kill... in fact, it's totally aping and riffing on ships out at sea. Das Boot in Space or some shit. 

It's like getting mad at a Bond villain explaining their motivations just before Bond's inevitable death. 

 

2) They're cloaked. DJ sold them out, giving them the rough where abouts. They wouldn't of noticed them other wise. 

 

 

I don't think this is daft-nitpicking when the film shows us ships zipping in and out of lightspeed, travelling to other planets and back while the chase goes on. Lightspeed is clearly a choice that could be made but wasn't. If it was because the First Order wanted to toy with their prey then that didn't come across in the film to me, it seemed they were simply stuck chasing them at sub-light speed until the Resistance ran out of fuel. If they acknowledge that having lightspeed be avialable breaks the storyline then the writers should have went back to the drawing board and come up with something else.

 

I got all the cloaked part and how that reveal feeds into the themes of Finn, Poe and co causing more collateral damage by trying to be a hero than following orders & how DJ was explicit from the get-go that he's only looking out for himself - what I meant was, there is a slow chase through space, going nowhere and there is one solitary planet nearby that the Rebels will pass close to. It's immersion breaking that the FO would be so stupid as to not think that was the destination all along.

 

Again, I liked the film! I liked the stuff with Holdo and was sad she didn't get to stick around for Ep 9 for the inevitable scene where Threepio takes a message to her cabin only to stumble on Poe coming out half-dressed, but the casino stuff and the slow chase just did not work for me. 

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2 minutes ago, Orko said:

 

Ah, the old "who are you" response when someone disagrees with you. Jolly good. 

 

It's old but also new.

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1 minute ago, Orko said:

Then, "no one of consequence". 

 

See, now we just summarised The Force Awakens AND The Last Jedi!

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This going to be viewed much worse in ten years. Sort of. There's a section of people that love it because of the political message "Anyone can be a Jedi" - they'll care less in ten years in a different political context. There is the standard HYPEHYPEHYPE that impacts all blockbusters these days, particularly Star Wars. That will wear off and the clunky bits of the film will become more apparent. This process has already happened with TFA. 

 

After a dozen or more Star Wars films of variable quality, some people that hate it will find some nostalgia for it. A hardcore will hate it forever more because it make Luke a depressed hobo. 

 

On average: considered worse than it is now. 

 

P. S. I want some of whatever anyone that thinks this is better than ANH is smoking. 

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The Force Awakens was really flawed when it came out though. I enjoyed it but I was disappointed it was essentially a rehash of the first film with a hint of Empire. I get after the prequels that they wanted to play it safe but Abrams did exactly the same thing with Star Trek in leaning heavily on nostalgia.

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12 minutes ago, SMD said:

The Force Awakens was really flawed when it came out though. I enjoyed it but I was disappointed it was essentially a rehash of the first film with a hint of Empire. I get after the prequels that they wanted to play it safe but Abrams did exactly the same thing with Star Trek in leaning heavily on nostalgia.

 

TLJ was really flawed when it came out. That the casino section is a massive waste of time isn't really debated by anyone. 

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1 minute ago, kensei said:

 

TLJ was really flawed when it came out. That the casino section is a massive waste of time isn't really debated by anyone. 

 

Exactly, which proves that Space Oscar Isaac and Space John Boyega should've just listened to Laura Dern.

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The whole casino bit was like a Saturday morning cartoon version of the plot of Rogue One. Gather crew. Go some place. Steal a thing. Help the rebels. 

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1 hour ago, SMD said:

 

Exactly, which proves that Space Oscar Isaac and Space John Boyega should've just listened to Laura Dern.

 

The most important message in all of Star Wars: always follow orders. 

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11 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

The most important message in all of Star Wars: always follow orders. 

 

Nope, just Laura Dern.

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2 hours ago, Glasgowchivas said:

 

I don't think this is daft-nitpicking when the film shows us ships zipping in and out of lightspeed, travelling to other planets and back while the chase goes on. Lightspeed is clearly a choice that could be made but wasn't. If it was because the First Order wanted to toy with their prey then that didn't come across in the film to me, it seemed they were simply stuck chasing them at sub-light speed until the Resistance ran out of fuel. If they acknowledge that having lightspeed be avialable breaks the storyline then the writers should have went back to the drawing board and come up with something else.

 

I got all the cloaked part and how that reveal feeds into the themes of Finn, Poe and co causing more collateral damage by trying to be a hero than following orders & how DJ was explicit from the get-go that he's only looking out for himself - what I meant was, there is a slow chase through space, going nowhere and there is one solitary planet nearby that the Rebels will pass close to. It's immersion breaking that the FO would be so stupid as to not think that was the destination all along.

 

Its completely explicit that Hux is toying with them, he’s letting them run out of fuel and picking them off one by one like a cat playing with its prey. It’s so totally obvious. 

The Rebel ship can obviously just outrun them enough that Fighters are out of range so they just let them die out in peril. Maybe they could Light Speed a wee bit to close the gap but the rebel ship would still pull off ahead and I dunno, it would just... end the film? Why am I even writing this? 

 

Also, they passed by a planet, eventually. Right when the FO think the main ship is done. Sooo, you want the FO to of known there was a base there? Are they meant to know everything? Read the script in advance? 

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If only somebody had read the script in advance maybe they could've pointed out that having a slo-mo space race makes for a boring movie

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