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Star Wars: The Last Jedi


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2 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I never said it didn't make sense though or that they never explained it - which was @scottcr's immediate reaction - vut rather my point was that the galaxy's slowest spacecar chase is a silly and rather unexciting concept to base most of a movie around, never mind a big new Star Wars episode. It comes across as a parody of Star Wars and there's sense if danger or spectacle at all. They might as well have shown two snails chasing each other indefinitely in a garden somewhere far, far away.

 

 

It would be a fine plot for an episode of farscape, it wasn't right for Star Wars and they could have found a much better way to convey the drama and tension than the slow chase...just having the rebels trapped under siege in the old cave would have been more oppressive and dramatic.

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1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

1) Because that would just end the film and.. dunno, make Neil Degrasse Tyson happy? 

In a sci-fi fantasy that has a large degree of accepting contrivances, why is this even a thing that some-one would be bothered about? The whole point of the scene is to show that the Rebels are dead-in-the-water and the ominous First Order and stalking them. It's all gloating on their part, and they're drinking in the kill... in fact, it's totally aping and riffing on ships out at sea. Das Boot in Space or some shit. 

It's like getting mad at a Bond villain explaining their motivations just before Bond's inevitable death. 

 

2) They're cloaked. DJ sold them out, giving them the rough where abouts. They wouldn't of noticed them other wise. 

 

 

I don't think this is daft-nitpicking when the film shows us ships zipping in and out of lightspeed, travelling to other planets and back while the chase goes on. Lightspeed is clearly a choice that could be made but wasn't. If it was because the First Order wanted to toy with their prey then that didn't come across in the film to me, it seemed they were simply stuck chasing them at sub-light speed until the Resistance ran out of fuel. If they acknowledge that having lightspeed be avialable breaks the storyline then the writers should have went back to the drawing board and come up with something else.

 

I got all the cloaked part and how that reveal feeds into the themes of Finn, Poe and co causing more collateral damage by trying to be a hero than following orders & how DJ was explicit from the get-go that he's only looking out for himself - what I meant was, there is a slow chase through space, going nowhere and there is one solitary planet nearby that the Rebels will pass close to. It's immersion breaking that the FO would be so stupid as to not think that was the destination all along.

 

Again, I liked the film! I liked the stuff with Holdo and was sad she didn't get to stick around for Ep 9 for the inevitable scene where Threepio takes a message to her cabin only to stumble on Poe coming out half-dressed, but the casino stuff and the slow chase just did not work for me. 

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This going to be viewed much worse in ten years. Sort of. There's a section of people that love it because of the political message "Anyone can be a Jedi" - they'll care less in ten years in a different political context. There is the standard HYPEHYPEHYPE that impacts all blockbusters these days, particularly Star Wars. That will wear off and the clunky bits of the film will become more apparent. This process has already happened with TFA. 

 

After a dozen or more Star Wars films of variable quality, some people that hate it will find some nostalgia for it. A hardcore will hate it forever more because it make Luke a depressed hobo. 

 

On average: considered worse than it is now. 

 

P. S. I want some of whatever anyone that thinks this is better than ANH is smoking. 

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The Force Awakens was really flawed when it came out though. I enjoyed it but I was disappointed it was essentially a rehash of the first film with a hint of Empire. I get after the prequels that they wanted to play it safe but Abrams did exactly the same thing with Star Trek in leaning heavily on nostalgia.

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12 minutes ago, SMD said:

The Force Awakens was really flawed when it came out though. I enjoyed it but I was disappointed it was essentially a rehash of the first film with a hint of Empire. I get after the prequels that they wanted to play it safe but Abrams did exactly the same thing with Star Trek in leaning heavily on nostalgia.

 

TLJ was really flawed when it came out. That the casino section is a massive waste of time isn't really debated by anyone. 

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1 minute ago, kensei said:

 

TLJ was really flawed when it came out. That the casino section is a massive waste of time isn't really debated by anyone. 

 

Exactly, which proves that Space Oscar Isaac and Space John Boyega should've just listened to Laura Dern.

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1 hour ago, SMD said:

 

Exactly, which proves that Space Oscar Isaac and Space John Boyega should've just listened to Laura Dern.

 

The most important message in all of Star Wars: always follow orders. 

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2 hours ago, Glasgowchivas said:

 

I don't think this is daft-nitpicking when the film shows us ships zipping in and out of lightspeed, travelling to other planets and back while the chase goes on. Lightspeed is clearly a choice that could be made but wasn't. If it was because the First Order wanted to toy with their prey then that didn't come across in the film to me, it seemed they were simply stuck chasing them at sub-light speed until the Resistance ran out of fuel. If they acknowledge that having lightspeed be avialable breaks the storyline then the writers should have went back to the drawing board and come up with something else.

 

I got all the cloaked part and how that reveal feeds into the themes of Finn, Poe and co causing more collateral damage by trying to be a hero than following orders & how DJ was explicit from the get-go that he's only looking out for himself - what I meant was, there is a slow chase through space, going nowhere and there is one solitary planet nearby that the Rebels will pass close to. It's immersion breaking that the FO would be so stupid as to not think that was the destination all along.

 

Its completely explicit that Hux is toying with them, he’s letting them run out of fuel and picking them off one by one like a cat playing with its prey. It’s so totally obvious. 

The Rebel ship can obviously just outrun them enough that Fighters are out of range so they just let them die out in peril. Maybe they could Light Speed a wee bit to close the gap but the rebel ship would still pull off ahead and I dunno, it would just... end the film? Why am I even writing this? 

 

Also, they passed by a planet, eventually. Right when the FO think the main ship is done. Sooo, you want the FO to of known there was a base there? Are they meant to know everything? Read the script in advance? 

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The more I think about TLJ, the more I believe that everything outside of the Luke/Rey/Ren triangle is prequel-level pump.

 

The Jedi stuff is fantastic though.

 

Hang on, I think it’s a mediocre Star Wars film, yet I love what they did with Luke, think Rey should have more screen time, and believe Kylo Ren is the best thing in it!? Wtf. This is simply incompatible with the worldview of many of the films more ardent online defenders.

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4 hours ago, kensei said:

This going to be viewed much worse in ten years. Sort of. There's a section of people that love it because of the political message "Anyone can be a Jedi" - they'll care less in ten years in a different political context. 

 

What political message is this?

 

"Anyone can be a Jedi" has always been part of Star Wars - they had a school of them in the prequels. 

 

The Last Jedi only changes that you don't have to be related to "Someone" to be the hero of the story.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Delargey said:

 

What political message is this?

 

"Anyone can be a Jedi" has always been part of Star Wars - they had a school of them in the prequels. 

 

The Last Jedi only changes that you don't have to be related to "Someone" to be the hero of the story.

 

 

 

I agree. But a fair few people on Twitter were going nuts about how it removes Space Royalty and is a reaction to our times etc. Point 4 sort of covers it here. 

 

https://filmcrithulk.blog/2017/12/15/the-force-belongs-to-us-the-last-jedis-beautiful-refocusing-of-star-wars/

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I can't believe people are actually annoyed Rey isn't Luke's daughter or some shit.

 

I still don't get what you mean about the political context? I liked that Rey isn't somebodies kid, in 10 years time I'll still like it becuase it's a better idea.

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Trump would totally ensure Donald Jr was the next bestest Jedi. Bigly. My read was a number of US people reading it that way. 

 

In 10 years you'll be wishing she wasn't Obi Wan Kenobi's kid because JJ reversed it in response to the backlash. I didn't mind it, other than there was obviously a different plan on TFA - definite tease - not just in people's heads - plus it just felt meh. Hell if they'd even hinted at her being a Skywalker at the crap Dark side bit then pulled the rug it'd be better. But I probably had rug pull fatigue at that point since Johnson couldn't walk past one he didn't like. 

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Do you mean that people like Rey being a nobody because  idea of people inheriting power because of their family name is politically unfashionable now?

 

That's not why I like it, I like it because Rey being X daughters is boring and contrived.

 

I don't think that policital bais is why Rain Johnson went down another route. He said that in the same way "I am your FATHER" was, emotionally, the worst thing Luke could hear at that point, "You're a nobody" was the worst thing that Rey could hear, instead of her identity being given meaning in relation to Skywalker or Obi Wan she has to definite who she is herself.

 

I know that JJ Abrahams had in mind was something different but I honestly can't think of anyone whose daughter she could be that would be more interesting than what Johnson did.

 

The problem was that Abrahams should have realised this and not set up her lineage as a plot point in the first place.

 

 

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I agree, I like that she's just some random as well, but you can hardly the blame people who are disappointed that there wasn’t some grand reveal as JJ 'Mystery Box' Abrams set it up as some big unanswered question.

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10 minutes ago, Delargey said:

Do you mean that people like Rey being a nobody because  idea of people inheriting power because of their family name is politically unfashionable now?

 

That's not why I like it, I like it because Rey being X daughters is boring and contrived.

 

I don't think that policital bais is why Rain Johnson went down another route. He said that in the same way "I am your FATHER" was, emotionally, the worst thing Luke could hear at that point, "You're a nobody" was the worst thing that Rey could hear, instead of her identity being given meaning in relation to Skywalker or Obi Wan she has to definite who she is herself.

 

I know that JJ Abrahams had in mind was something different but I honestly can't think of anyone whose daughter she could be that would be more interesting than what Johnson did.

 

The problem was that Abrahams should have realised this and not set up her lineage as a plot point in the first place.

 

 

 

Something along those lines. It asserts liberal values. I didn't say that's why you liked it. Just it seemed to be a thing for some people. 

 

I read the Johnson interview but didn't really get that in the movie. But then I didn't get the clicky scene at all. Just seemed like nonsense. I didn't really think Rey's heritage was particularly interesting. Any interest the reveal generated was from JJ teasing it in TFA. It was just 'oh, that's that then'. 

 

It's a bit like the whole film for me. Just left me flat at the end. 

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It also asserts the values that family name gives you power - Ren is a skywalker after all. I don't think it has any particular liberal message that hasn't been present in the other movies.

 

I liked the clicky scene personally, it was very much like Luke's cave in Empire - showing the hero a truth they didn't want- with Luke it was that he is connected to Vader, with Rey it was that it's just her, alone.

 

I wish Abraham's didn't set up her parents the way he did really.

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On the Rey mystery box thing, it felt like an intriguing subplot when I first watched TFA, without ever feeling like the main narrative thread; but it always looked like it was going to resolve along the lines of Rey being, essentially, a nobody - but but it also felt like the amount of attention it got in TFA hinted that it would resolve in such a way that would create a new narrative thread, about those nobodies; about minor players caught up in a grander struggle. I think that would have been much more interesting than just throwing all of those moments and hints away. And watching TFA again after TLJ it feels even more wilfully perverse and just sort of accentuates the fact that all of those moments and hints were just transformed into a laborious red herring. 

 

But really it is just one drop in the ocean of missteps and stupidity that they managed to pour into TLJ. Ugh, the ironing scene. Ugh, the green milk scene. Every time I think about the movie I think of another stupid thing about it. 

 

It will DEFINITELY age worse than the prequels. 

 

I don't know why I am bothering to share these thoughts, given that clearly everyone in this thread has already made up their mind, but I am in such a state of disbelief that I feel the need to type these words out. 

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I'm one of the biggest Star Wars fannies here, and have taken some shit over the years for tolerating the prequels and tediously defending the extended universe, but even I struggled with the slow chase plot. It was fine at first, but just became absurd as it went on. Basically, they spent way too long messing about picking up the hacker. 

 

We'll have to assume those kids are of some consequence, given the amount of time spent on casino planet.

 

Haven't had time for a repeat viewing yet, admittedly. Also, awful lot of negs in this thread. You realize we're all correct, yeah? And someone hating it didn't affect whether I enjoyed it, thankfully.

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