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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - December 2017

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9 hours ago, Hexx said:

 

Yeah but

 

 

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How did she get TO the Falcon?

 

 

The Supreme Leader's escape pod was probably fancy enough to have a working hyperspace drive, so she met Chewie at the pre-arranged location (she obviously knew where he was going to jump to after dropping her off). The bit which confused me was why she left the unconscious Kylo Ren, instead of either killing him or taking him with her. They could have done with showing her only just escaping as a hundred storm troopers burst in or whatever.

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Just got back from seeing it and its easily the best one since ROTJ. It felt like Star Wars to me and perfectly follows TFA without the directors styles clashing too much. Not sure why some people think its a slap in the face of Star Wars fans, I'd like to know why they think that? It has some really great moments in it such as 

 

Spoiler

 

Luke tossing the sabre straight away after we waited all this time to see what hed say. It jist felt perfect for how disillusioned he was with it all.

 

The throne room fight

 

The kamikaze ship and perfectly silent shot that follows looked wonderful

 

Luke and Leia being face to face near the end. Got a little bleary eyed at that part knowing that Carrie has since passed away. Anyone else feel really sad at that moment? Theres a shot of Leia as Luke pulls away with the sun in the background thats just perfect. Can't wait to get a HD shot of it.

 

Kylo vs Luke

 

GHOST YODA (which wasnt crappy CGI either)

 

 

 

The comedy was just right too, not too OTT but just enough to make it fun. The space battle were all fantastic too, really well shot and choreographed.

 

Also loved (re Snoke)

Spoiler

how they just off'd him, I'd have never of guessed they'd do tha and came as such a surpise. We still don't know who he was or where he came from and Id still like to find out more about him. I was convinced the twist was going to be that Kylo and Rey turned and switched sides. I know that would have been easy and lazy so was cool for them to go somewhere I didnt think they would.

 

Things I didnt like as much were

Spoiler

the Casino sub plot as it felt out of tone and keeping with the rest of the film. I was bored by it.

 

Leias fake out death and space flying.

 

Captain Phasma felt wasted yet again, as did Chewy.

 

Its also felt like Finn was too much of a side character in this who was just kept busy at times. Felt like they'd made it more Reys film where as TFA felt like it was both of theirs.

 

The lazy writting that set Finn off on his sub plot which lead to all the rebels deaths. Make no sense that Holdo wpuld not have just clued everyone in on what was going on.

 

Overall though I enjoyed the hell out of it from the space battles, the time on the island, the cat & mouse chase and the amazing shots of the red earth and the

Spoiler

kamikaze bit.

 

4/5

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2 hours ago, Paulando said:

Can one of you hardcore Star Wars fans explain something for me (massive TLJ spoilers ahead)?:

 

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Has it been established anywhere that the Jedi disappear when they die, or is it something they choose? Did Obi-Wan make himself disappear just before Vader took him down so he could be reborn as a force ghost, for example (or was it to get a ‘U’ rating ;))?

 

After what Snoke said about the balance of light and dark, and the light getting stronger as Ben’s dark side grew, I saw Luke’s death as something quite deliberate, to take him out of the equation and weaken Kylo and/or make Rey stronger. Or is that not right? :unsure:

 

 

Spoiler

The "dissolving into the Force" is a trait of the really powerful Jedi. The "return from the Netherworld" is a technique mastered by Qui-Gon Jinn. I do not believe the two are connected. Obi Wan was really powerful and chose to dissolve into the Force because, in my mind, it is considered the most peaceful way for a Jedi to die. The fact that he came back, we can assume, was taught to him by Qui-Gon. Anakin appears as force ghost as well in RotJ (in the reworked versions, true, but still) even though he died a normal death, so I do not believe the two are connected.

 

About the Snoke thing, I agree.

Spoiler

The essence of balance in SW is exactly what Snoke says: dark rises and light comes to meet it. The more it rises, the more the light rises as well in order to keep the balance. As Kylo rises in power when his master is killed, so does Rey when Luke is gone. It is a balancing act. In other words, both Snoke and Luke have to go in order for Kylo and Rey to reach their potential and be able to balance each other out (until the new circle of course).

 

One of my favorite moments of the entire saga is when Obi Wan tells Vader "if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". This actually means that his death will set into motion the complete rise of Luke that will bring down the Empire. Hence the constant references to fate, destiny, etc. SW universe is pure fatalism.

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It was weird that it was so funny. I was almost annoyed at how much I was laughing at it, but then I realised how silly that was. It was equally weird that it was such a brazen mix of pure fanservice and fan-trolling. I really liked that about it.

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Yeah I didn’t get on too well with this, glad I saw it but preferred force awakens I think. Not that I thought Force Awakens was a work of art but I remember laughing more at that film. 

 

Maybe I was just miffed because I had avoided all but the first trailers for this only to have to hide my eyes at the start because Canadian cinemas are mental and have trailers/ features on the film you’re about to see. Also there were kids near me that were commentating throughout. Also I just don’t understand the appeal of 3D (no 2D options of course), it makes everything look like miniature sets and kills the sense of scale.

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I’m seeing this tomorrow and really hope it raises the bar from TFA. I tried to rewatch that this week and it’s such a brazen, lazy rehash of ideas, I switched it off. 

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I was disappointed coming out of this last night, and the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get.

 

Spoiler

Most importantly, it didn't feel like Star Wars. TFA felt absolutely consistent with the original trilogy, both in the universe it created and in tone. This didn't: the casino sequence absolutely reeked of prequel, and the humour was too frequent, and too knowing. It wasn't the tone of a Star Wars film, it was the tone of a Marvel superhero film.

 

It also wasted pretty much every mystery TFA set up. Who's Smoke, and how did he become so powerful? Unanswered. Who is Rey? No one. (In itself, that's fine, but having Kylo just toss out the answer in a single line was shit). If Luke didn't want to be found, why did he leave behind a map to his exact location? Um. Look, a funny animal!

 

To be fair, what they did with Luke himself was good, and rang true. He's basically turned into a modern-day Yoda; disillusioned, and sent slightly barmy by his isolation.

 

Unfortunately, Finn was completely wasted, and Poe was turned from a hero to the new JarJar Binks; an incompetent buffoon who single-handedly gets the bulk of the resistance killed. As a result, there was a big Han Solo-shaped charisma vacuum at the heart of the film that went entirely unfilled.

 

It's not a complete disaster, but it was a big let-down, and nowhere near the quality of TFA or Rogue One, let alone the original trilogy.

 

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1 hour ago, Cappuccino Kid said:

I was disappointed coming out of this last night, and the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get.

 

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Most importantly, it didn't feel like Star Wars. TFA felt absolutely consistent with the original trilogy, both in the universe it created and in tone. This didn't: the casino sequence absolutely reeked of prequel, and the humour was too frequent, and too knowing. It wasn't the tone of a Star Wars film, it was the tone of a Marvel superhero film.

 

It also wasted pretty much every mystery TFA set up. Who's Smoke, and how did he become so powerful? Unanswered. Who is Rey? No one. (In itself, that's fine, but having Kylo just toss out the answer in a single line was shit). If Luke didn't want to be found, why did he leave behind a map to his exact location? Um. Look, a funny animal!

 

To be fair, what they did with Luke himself was good, and rang true. He's basically turned into a modern-day Yoda; disillusioned, and sent slightly barmy by his isolation.

 

Unfortunately, Finn was completely wasted, and Poe was turned from a hero to the new JarJar Binks; an incompetent buffoon who single-handedly gets the bulk of the resistance killed. As a result, there was a big Han Solo-shaped charisma vacuum at the heart of the film that went entirely unfilled.

 

It's not a complete disaster, but it was a big let-down, and nowhere near the quality of TFA or Rogue One, let alone the original trilogy.

 

 

See I dont feel like that at all, I thought it did feel like Star Wars and was pretty consistant with following on from TFA.

 

Spoiler

I loved the line about Rey. For two years people have been saying shes Luke daughter, or Obi Wans grand daughter. Turns out no, she comes from nothing. It pretty unique in the SW universe tbh, to not have any connection to the Skywalkers.

 

Also the original trilogy has loads of stupid humour and creaures in it.

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You'd think the rebels wouldn't be shocked that the technology to track things in space exists when Leia is wearing a small bracelet that apparently allows someone to pinpoint her location from anywhere in the galaxy.

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It felt JUST like Star Wars - I honestly don't understand how anyone can say otherwise. Epic space battles, lightsaber fights, weird and wonderful creatures etc etc. 

 

I really need to make time to see it again because the more I think about it the more I think I liked it.

 

Personally it ticked all the boxes for me - one of which I didn't even draw. 

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48 minutes ago, Cappuccino Kid said:

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It wasn't the tone of a Star Wars film, it was the tone of a Marvel superhero film

 

 

This is absolutely spot on in my opinion. Some of the comedy worked, but the majority didn’t for this reason.

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On 15/12/2017 at 15:29, Despin said:

I was not a fan.

 

Huge chunks of it didn't really feel like Star Wars to me. All the space stuff felt more like Star Trek or Battlestar. Too much time spend with characters we don't care about.  It only really started to feel like Star Wars in the last half hour... then if fluffed the ending.

 

There's some baffling choice made here. A couple of simple changes could have fixed everything.

 

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Here's a few changes I'd have made that would have changed everything for the better. You lose Rose completely and have Leia throw Poe in the brig for not following orders and being too brash. Leia almost dies like in the move (minus the space Mary Poppins sequence) she comes back, in bad shape but can go on. You lose Laura Dern's character and give all those moments to Leia. Poe thinks she's not thinking straight.

 

Mirroring The Force Awakens you have Finn break him out and it's them that go on their side quest. Only they're not going to look for some random bloke with a picture of a flower on his jacket... They're after a guy in a blue cape. That's right. They're looking for LANDO CALRISSIAN. Back to his gambling ways and now a mega rich celebrity since the vents of the original trilogy... Only he's not rich, he's broke again. It's all a front. He screws them over like DJ does but also has a change of heart. So rather than BB8 it's Lando that saves them. Finn finds an unconscious Rey and with the help of Poe and Lando get her back to the Falcon where Lando meats Chewie and goes on to join the rebellion as they're running pretty low of experienced military leaders by the end anyway...

 

So that's how I'd fix the horrible middle section of this movie.

 

Then rather than Laura Dern die, it should be Leia. We have Poe and Finn return and learn their lesson to listen to smart women and stop running off being brash. She orders them all to escape to the planet while she will lead the First Order away. The rebels are seen evacuating and the battle splits. Hux in space following Leia and Kylo heading to the salt planet after Rey.

 

The ground battle goes on as it does now until Luke returns in his X-Wing does some amazing piloting skills (have Poo repeat Finn's line from previous film "that's one helluva pilot!)

 

He ends up buying the guys inside some time before landing and doing his AMAZING stand off against the army on foot. We're losing our minds here as we've never seen Luke as a true master use his powers before... and it does not disappoint. Kylo orders everything he has fired at him. A thousand laser strikes... Remember when Kylo did that cool think in Force Awakens and stopped a laser blast by raising his hand and using the force Luke does it with ten thousand laser blasts.

 

He''s indestructible. He then clenches his fist and yanks every one of The First Orders walker things to their knees. The rebellion is cheering. Their saved.

 

Kylo emerges, knows he has to take on his own master alone. He's no real match for Luke. But Luke tries to talk him down.

 

Meanwhile in space Hux is ready to destroy Leia and her ship. Leia ForceTimes her brother. They talk, he refuses to kill her son. She thanks him and together they decide they will become the spark that ignites the new rebellion. Leia suicide missions Hux and Luke lets Kylo kill him like Vader did Ben.

 

Everyone's sad, but they escape as they do now, only now Lando is back on the Falcon and Poe flying Luke's X-Wing.

 

So yeah... I think those smallish changes would have made it way better.

 

 

Everything you described there is worse and full off every single movie trope I can think of.

 

Re Finn subplot

Spoiler

Having it be Lando pretty much ruins Finns story arch. He beccomes who he is, a man willing the sacrifice himself for the greater good because of the betryal of Bencio del Toro.

 

Also we dont have to cram in every single character from previous films this is a story moving on, creating a new story archs with new characters. The whole message of the film at one point is lets not get bogged down in the past.

 

Yes we love those characters but we've been given new characters now. Its very much feels like get on board with these lot because this is where we're going or opt out.

 

Re Leia 

Spoiler

If Leia is the one to sacrifice herself she doesnt get her moment with Luke, shes already dead. They only got to the moon because Holdo rammed the ships.

 

Losing that very touching moment between Leia and Luke in the mountain base would be unforgivable.

 

We dont need to kill off all the original cast members. Obviously with Carries unfortunate passing they have to with the next.

 

Re Luke

Spoiler

Having him come back in the nick of time to sacrifice himself and basically copy what Obi Wan did would have been boring and tired. We've seen it before, we dont need to see it again. We didn't need to see him get chopped in half, that would have been rubbish.

 

This way, he played his part and he left in peace knowing that the final bit of strength he had helped keep the resistance alive. He was contempt and finally at one with the force, something which I dont think he ever truly was before. Hense him disappearing.

 

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On 14/12/2017 at 22:07, Benny said:

I tell you what, say what you like about the rest, but the opening 20 or so minutes...

 

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of space combat was pure awesome Star Wars dogfighting. The bombers especially felt like some grim, low tech mechanical stuff.

 

 

Agree, but how the hell does

Spoiler

dropping bombs from above

work in space?

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22 minutes ago, Harsin said:

 

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You'd think the rebels wouldn't be shocked that the technology to track things in space exists when Leia is wearing a small bracelet that apparently allows someone to pinpoint her location from anywhere in the galaxy.

 

 

Spoiler

The bracelet probably works in the same way that the tracker did that allowed Vader to follow Leia in the Tantive IV did at the end of Rogue One / beginning of A New Hope. Tracking something without some kind of signal being broadcast must be new technology that they’ve not come across before.

 

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17 minutes ago, charley farley said:

 

This is absolutely spot on in my opinion. Some of the comedy worked, but the majority didn’t for this reason.

The originals were full of daft moments. RoTJ is full of them. One of the main bad guys gets wiped out by a blind man twirling around with a staff.

 

I agree some felt out of place but most of it was spot on.

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6 minutes ago, Padster said:

 

Agree, but how the hell does

  Reveal hidden contents

dropping bombs from above

work in space?

 

Spoiler

I’m no physics expert, but since there’s clearly gravity in the long section of the ship that they’re dropped from, wouldn’t the momentum the bombs get when released in there continue when they’ve left the ship?

 

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1 minute ago, ahsoka said:

 

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I’m no physics expert, but since the section of the bomber that contains bombs clearly has gravity, wouldn’t the momentum the bombs get when released in there continue when they’ve left the ship?

 

Yes I suppose so. I guess I shouldn't worry about such things, or we'd never see spaceships doing

Spoiler

cool handbrake turns

in space either.

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1 minute ago, Padster said:

Yes I suppose so. I guess I shouldn't worry about such things, or we'd never see spaceships doing

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cool handbrake turns

in space either.

 

Exactly. Then bombers work on the same principle that the X-wings did in the original Star Wars - they're in space but they're basically WW2 planes.

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31 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

It felt JUST like Star Wars - I honestly don't understand how anyone can say otherwise. Epic space battles, lightsaber fights, weird and wonderful creatures etc etc. 

 

I really need to make time to see it again because the more I think about it the more I think I liked it.

 

Personally it ticked all the boxes for me - one of which I didn't even draw. 

 

Me too. I keep remembering little moments and smiling.

 

I want to go and see it again this weekend but my idiot children want to wait until next weekend for some stupid reason. Let the parental nagging commence!

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Facebook comment are awash with people saying its thr worst SW yet. It clearly isn't, the prequels are and will always be terrible.

 

Mainly it just seems that fanboys are butthurt that their theories didnt come true and it still left questions unanswered. They seem to be forgetting we have a third film still to come.

 

Also on who Snoke is, cant we just accept

Spoiler

that he was just a big bad? People did for The Emporer before the prequels. I never once remember wanting to know a back story about how The Emporer came to power. He was just there, just like Snoke was. Clearly a man who just ceased power at the right time.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Stigweard said:

Facebook comment are awash with peolle ssying its thr worst SW yet. It clearly isn't, the prequels are and will always be terrible.

 

Mainly it just seems that fanboys are butthurt that their theories didnt come true and it still left questions unanswered. They seem to be forgetting we have a third film still to come.

 

Also on who Snoke is, cant we just accept

  Reveal hidden contents

that he was just a big bad? People did for The Emporer before the prequels. I never once remember wanting to know a back story about how The Emporer came to power. He was just there, just like Snoke was. Clearly a man who just ceased power at the right time.

 

 

 

It'd not just "butthurt" fanboys. Literally everywhere there is an opportunity to comment is awash with people that either hated the film or had major reservations. I've chatted to people in real life that were unsure.

 

Also, Snoke isn't the same as the Emperor, for reasons already discussed.

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1 hour ago, Stigweard said:

 

Care to elaborate cause I dont see how it can be worse than any of the prequels 

 

Portrayal and treatment of Luke is a missed opportunity of the century when it comes to popular cinema. Very insulting.

 

Meanwhile Leia becomes Mary Poppins.

 

Nothing that happens in the film matters, for the sake of giving every expectation a twist, with zero payoff unlike the movie it's based on. (Empire Strikes Back)

 

The amount of Disney marketing comedy is also no different from forcing Jar Jar down our throats.

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‘Let’s not get bogged down in the past!!!’

 

It’s a nine film Skywalker story, the nostalgia should get a pass on these films. Accusations of focusing on the Skywalker clan making the universe small is a load of rubbish, the directors and writers did a good enough job of that by making ships able to travel anywhere instantaneously and Starkiller base destroying star systems from light years away.  

 

Disney has all the time in the world to create new stories. They’ve rushed this and missed the point of what made the OT so special. 

 

C3PO and Artoo have been wasted. They would have been the perfect way to bridge the time between OT and the new films.  

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

Facebook comment are awash with peolle ssying its thr worst SW yet. It clearly isn't, the prequels are and will always be terrible.

 

Mainly it just seems that fanboys are butthurt that their theories didnt come true and it still left questions unanswered. They seem to be forgetting we have a third film still to come.

 

Also on who Snoke is, cant we just accept

  Hide contents

that he was just a big bad? People did for The Emporer before the prequels. I never once remember wanting to know a back story about how The Emporer came to power. He was just there, just like Snoke was. Clearly a man who just ceased power at the right time.

 

 

 

That’s because Lucas and the gang were finding their feet as they went along. 

 

These new films should have hit the ground running. 

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