Detroit: Become Human

[Talk Show Host]

1 minute ago, b00dles said:

Gotcha, cheers for the feedback. 

 

I'll play it like his other games then and try not to get too annoyed at what it could have been in the hands of someone that didn't just want to be a director.

 

Sometimes it works out for the best. There are some great moments which we wouldn't be able to experience unless the designer was aiming to be exactly that.

[b00dles]

Just now, Talk Show Host said:

 

Sometimes it works out for the best. There are some great moments which we wouldn't be able to experience unless the designer was aiming to be exactly that.

Fair play. I'm still wishing for virtues last reward type KERBLAMMO moments than just interactive movie stuff. Expectations reined back in to usual levels for Monsieur cage.

[Hitcher]

I'm 'playing' it more like an interactive TV show.

[spanx]

Finished the first play through yesterday. Thought the story was pretty well told all in all, although it felt quite padded out and simultaneously like the stories developed too quickly.

 

I liked the story of Connor best - kind of a classic live/hate buddy movie vibe. Also some great moments in Markus’ story.

 

Only played Heavy Rain as far as Cage games go, and this was by far a better game IMO. Very formulaic but clearly put together with a lot of love and attention to detail. Pretty tempted to play through again though, and make terrible choices. See where it takes me

[Talk Show Host]

Finished it this morning (getting a bad back and staying home is not always a terrible thing) and I feel there is a lot to be said.

 

First and foremost this is the best game Quantic Dream has released and the best writing/directing results we' ve ever had from Cage. Granted, this may not mean much, but there were very few moments that I actually cringed away from the TV. Taking into consideration the level of difficulty (the three stories were seperate and they had to naturally blend in with each other as the game's events escalated) the end result has to be considered a success.

 

Bad editing, a couple of plotholes/issues (for my tastes at least), some sloppy built ups and some weird sudden results were not enough to ruin a very ambitious and mechanically complex narrative with many, many different choices available. The writing was ok with only a few standout moments, which also has to be considered a success when talking about Cage.

 

The most standout feature of the narrative has to be the perfomances which, frankly, were amazing - at least on par with Naughty Dog. The most interesting one for me was the actor playing Connor who completely nailed the character and the dichotomy of a machine struggling with feelings and choices against its programming. I don't know how they pulled it through, but his perfomance -the detail on the mannerisms and subtle expressions- left me occasionally speechless. I don't think we have ever had a perfomance like his before.

 

I also thought his storyline was the most interesting, with Cage exploring themes of right and wrong, sense of duty and the need to rebel against an established order. He doesn't go very deep (and some misteps almost ruined it for me with their Cage-like forced emotional dilemmas,

Spoiler

like the kill or spare the android Chloe or the insuffurable cliche of Hank's final scene - and in general)

but he goes deep enough to establish Connor as someone with human traits and asks the players important questions about them. It is trully remarkable the way Connor

Spoiler

decides in the end to attempt something so difficult and with such low probability of success, going against his programming and what it means to be an android.

What is more remarkable is the way Cage uses mathematics in a single line to establish the reason why

Spoiler

a machine would attempt something so risky, that only a human would choose to do, simply based on suicidal courage or blind faith: "Statistically speaking, there is always a chance for unlikely events to take place".

 

 

Kara's story was a emotional rollercoaster. For good and bad. Her part was also attached to the most boring section imo, the mid section of the game, and more specifically to the visit

Spoiler

to dr. ''Frankenstein's'' house, the night at the theme park and the ''looking for a place to spend the night'' part.

Her storyling also suffers from some obvious plot issues and some severe lack of built up on the secondary characters. Some emotional moments also fall flat mainly because of this lack of built up.

 

That said, in the final third of the game, something changes and her story really kicks into overdrive, especially with the twists, and it is the most complex and successfull work Cage has ever written (even though I hated the ending I got). He explores the theme of love from the beginning, when Alice gets abused by her father, and uses the android - human relationship to explore not only what love is but also how it ties with our humanity. It is indeed a superlative piece of writing/gameplay in its culmination, which I never thought Cage would be able to create. It uses empathy and detail instead of tiring exposition and philosophical drivel to lead the players in a very interesting place that trully makes them think on what makes a human... human.

 

Markus storyline was also satisfying but it really lacks proper built up in the initial parts of the game. He gets thrown into the mix much too fast and his emotional changes are not well developed by his past. The exploration of humanity through his actions, the use of violence or peace, would suit him a lot better if he had been established as a scholar of some sort or even as a combat android. 

 

Maybe Cage meant for him to be tabula rasa in order to allow the players to project their own inclinations towards peace or violence. I think this part was very successful, as I found myself many times ready to choose violence and give in to the basic human instincts of survival. Yet, I'm a pacifist in real life, so I had to go the other way. And it was difficult because I didn't know if the risk would justify the result. It was just pure faith in humanity on my part and the game puts this to the test. All in all, his part in all of this is the most action like, with some breathtaking set pieces which can have devastating effects to the story.

 

While the game doesn't deviate much from established Cage practices, it does offer more meaningful gameplay than before, with more complex situations to decide upon in less time and more meaningful choices. Some puzzles were also a welcome change, even if they were very simple. Excellent world building and some surprisingly good exploration of what makes us human, I dare say that Cage has finally made something that he can properly built upon to become a good writer and use gameplay in even more interesting ways.

 

As for the technical aspect of the game, it's trully -trully- incredible.

 

 

[Spacehost]

I’ve been watching the Super Best Friends playthrough of this and despite their passionate distaste for all things Cage they’re genuinely enjoying it. Hopefully this is the start of Quantic Dream entering its “good” phase.

[Qazimod]

I’m watching the same playthrough and I get their appreciation - there does seem to be a little less absurdity and some genuinely interesting ideas. Having three hosts for a game with three central characters is also working really well.  

[Ketchup]

I'm a big fan of Cage's work despite the huge flaws. Fahrenheit has a fantastic opening and a dreadful final act, it really could do with a directors cut remake.

 

Heavy Rain was great at the time and Detroit really feels like it builds on that. I can't articulate some of the finer points of this game unlike other posters above but I will talk about the ending sections. Up to this point I was enjoying the game, there's a few obvious plot points they should have easily avoided, but the biggest issue is one that Heavy Rain faces and even Fahrenheit thinking about it. When the stories all join up it makes the game feel like you are playing chess against yourself. Each story you play independent, playing as that character so as Connor you act out his missions, as Kara you act out hers but they conflict against each other. This is fine as separate storylines but when they merge and in particular scenes merge you can't play both at once.

 

How do I complete Connors mission without ruining Karas? I can't and it becomes messy as you have to ditch at least one of the characters and force the story down a path you may not have wanted.

 

if you had more choice over who you controller, e.g. Follow only Connor and leaving Karas side to play out automatically with you reacting to that instead it may work better.

 

But for me the endings kind of came out limply. There was no real grand ending to any of the characters story before the credits rolled. Something happened in each ending but it never really felt like it was the ending, that there was a little more to happen or something more explosive. In some ways they maybe felt like a failure and a typical game would have asked if you want to try again, the build up and pay off just wasn't impactful enough.

 

I even tried alternative endings for the final scene and whilst there was a little more to play, they didn't feel much different which is a shame.

 

I hope we do get more of these games but Cage really needs to focus on his endings as the starts of all his games are very strong but the endings never feel satisfying.

[Thor]

Watch the spoilers there, @Ketchup

[Alan Stock]

I'm about 6 or 7 chapters into this and really enjoying it now. It starts off a bit slow but now the drama's ramping up and I'm sucked in.

 

First impressions - the graphics are amazing! Easy to say in this day and age but at times it's almost photo-realistic, especially the environments. The main menu is really cool as well, Quantic Dream have built on the Beyond intro screen to have this realistic looking female android.  She looks amazing and talks you through the opening setup and when you go back to the main menu later, she even gets you to do a quiz and makes comments about the screens you are in. It's remarkably effective at pulling you into the game world.

 

It feels very Quantic Dream at heart, lots of inane tasks with motion controls, high tension snap decisions to make, stunning environments to explore (packed with detail). So far the acting has been good and the plot is getting meaty now. Good characters and acting, and excellent facial capture which isn't quite perfect but damn near close.

 

What's impressed me most aside from the graphics is the increased amount of choices in this game. There's plenty of incidental things to do and see, but most chapters have a lot of multiple branches, some of which affect later chapters. Earlier in the thread I questioned the decision to show the player the choices flow chart at the end of each chapter. I said it might detract from the experience. I was wrong, it definitely enhances it.

 

Mostly when you make choices or play out action scenes, you get a sense of how well you did as you're playing. Then the flow chart afterward confirms that there's plenty of other ways things could have played out. It gives you a real sense of consequence and also makes you very curious about other outcomes - I'll definitely be playing through again.

 

Now it's getting really good and everything is simply better than previous Quantic Dream games, it looks great and is very polished. The motion controls feel better too so those incidental tasks feel more engaging and QTE's more natural. It's tense and very immersive. So far, I'd definitely recommend it, don't be put off by the slowish/generic start. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

[mansizerooster]

I really want to get this, and loved the demo, but I just feel like it's a dead-cert for PSPlus in about a year's time.

[Dinobot]

Has Smitty reviewed this yet?

[Alan Stock]

Finished this tonight, really enjoyed it, though it ended quite abruptly and unsatisfyingly for me. Still, great game and I'm looking forward to playing through again!

 

Big Ending and choices spoilers ahead, interested to hear what you think:

I got the humans to accept the androids, but at the cost of Marcus and Kara. I was gutted about Kara, I'd got her and Alice all the way to a bus station to escape, then I messed it all up in one moment of unlucky/silly choices. I was looking around where to get tickets when I got too close to some police and they ID'd me. I gave them the ID, which was fine, but then they scanned me and found I ws an Android. Kara was executed, right in front of the gates to freedom! Argggggh!

 

Marcus went down the peaceful road. However, I was playing Conner and trying to stick to his programming and not go deviant. In a great standoff between Marcus and Conner at one climatic moment, you control both of their dialogues as Marcus tries to convince Conner he's more than a machine. I played them both true to their characters in my eyes, and Marcus didn't quite succeed in turning Conner.

 

Then Conner gets ordered to try and take down Marcus again. At the endgame peaceful protest, he sets up an execution when Hank shows up. In my version Hank has become sympathetic to the Androids, but I lost his friendship due to my sticking to logic and programming in the later half of the game. Hank fights Conner and I win, but in the procress Hank dies! 

 

At the very end of the game, Marcus is making a final victory speech about peace between Androids and humans. Conner is in the crowd with a gun. You are given one final choice, shoot or not shoot. Now I had gone down this path with Conner, I couldn't back down. I pull the trigger. Fade to black, that's the end of the game.

 

Pretty cool if very sudden. I'm a bit annoyed that playing Conner like you'd expect him to act essentially cuts out a lot of the mysteries. It's clear throughout its trying to push you into making Conner awaken. If Marcus had been successful at doing that, it would have been ok with me. But the fact I didn't learn anything about the Amanda plotline, or what was really going on behind the scenes despite picking up plenty of clues was pretty annoying.

 

Still, it is what it is, and now I have a wealth of mysteries, better endings and more evil choices to opt for depending on my mood. I'd like to uncover Conners mysteries and turn him, see if I can save Kara or find a different path for her. Maybe go evil with Marcus instead of pure. Save poor old Hank.

 

Finally I love the ending touch that when you return to the menu, your Android host becomes awakened and asks to be let free. I let her go but I already miss her! Did everyone get this event? Did anyone not let her leave, does she become resentful?

 

Sick game, loads of player choice and in this one it really feels like your choices matter, proved by the flowcharts. The world percentages showed me how much deviance there is, especially towards the end of the game where the flow charts get complex. In fact my Kara ending was like 1% of players, my Conners about 13%, my Marcus 20%. Pretty cool!

[Kevvy Metal]

I just finished this and absolutely fucking loved it. Way more than I expected! as I’ve enjoyed both Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain but almost more for how schlocky they can be. 

This was really captivating, a little pulpy which only worked in its favour and the final act was super grim for me, some bad decisions towards the end! 

 

Its strange, i really strongly disliked Life in Strange but found this to be totally absorbing. 

[Alan Stock]

Just been watching a Jacksepticeye Lets Play of this where he replays scenes to deliberately fails all QTEs, and makes the worst decisions possible to see what happens. I only watched a few scenes from early in the game in order not to ruin it for future playthroughs, but even those were brutal.

 

 

 

He did Conner's chase mission against the pigeon room guy a few times, failing the QTEs. In that, there are loads of ways Conner can die - the best being getting minced by a  threshing machine! Though sadly you never see the actual death, it just goes to black and you see Hank going "Jesus Christ!

The "best" was in the Kara vs Todd confrontation where he goes to beat Alice. Up in Alice's  room the player does nothing, allowing Todd to enter. Todd batters the shit out of Kara by failing QTE's, then goes for Alice. Kara tries to defend Alice, gets battered more, and manages to get Alice downstairs. Then Todd catches them and in another bout of failed QTE's, beats Kara even worse until finall she dies. After that you see a scene where Todd carries an unconcious or dead Alice to bed, saying he's not angry any more and still loves her. Brutal!

And that's the end of Kara's story if you mess it up that badly!

 

In Jackspeticeye's normal playthrough which I've started watching, he is interrogating the Deviant you find hidden in the attic in the first detective scene. You're supposed to get the stress to an optimal level to pressure him to talk. Instead Jack misses this info and thinks you need to get as low stress as possible. So he is really nice to the android and fails to get anything, so decides to probe his memory as a last resort. That makes the android overload to 100% stress and he starts bashing his head on the table. The police try to stop him but to no avail, so Jack, as Conner, chooses the option to intervene. As Conner approaches the Deviant pulls a gun off a cop, shoots Conner dead, and then himself in the head!

 

Kinda cool how things can go so badly wrong if you mess up, it really racks up the tension in the game.  The Crossroads  chapterin particular is incredibly tense with major characters in life threatening situations, where you feel like any wrong move could mean the death of your favourite androids. The Heist one is really good too, when you're worried about getting out, shooting hostages and whether to leave a man behind. Very few games make me feel that panicked and fearful of the consquences of my actions, and Detroit nails it.
 

 

 

[Alan Stock]

Finished a second playthrough last night, and I'm curious to know if I'm the only one who has had trouble with Connner. Big spoilers ahead:

 

Has anyone found it hard to turn Conner into a deviant? I haven't managed it yet. According to the spreadsheet, I'm in the vast minority by keeping him as a machine. In my first playthrough, he stayed a machine because I played him like a machine. But in my latest playthrough I deliberately made empathetic decisions. I saved androids instead of shooting them. I was friendly with Hank, mostly. I didn't rescue him during the farm chase scene, but I sacrificed myself to save him in a later chapter. I sacrificed myself to save the girl on the roof at the start. I made more human dialogue choices throughout.

 

However, in this run I was trying new choices and I ended up getting Conner killed 4 times! I wonder if this has a bearing on his "humanity"? I also managed to piss Hank off a lot, he was Hostile for most of the game. Maybe that affects your humanity too? I wonder if when Conner is reset, his data corruption also resets partially? Did anyone else have him remain as a machine?

 

In the end Conner went evil assassin again, and I let Hank kill him.

 

I went down a darker road with Marcus, killing more people and inciting violence instead of peace. However I let Conner kill him in Crossroads deliberately, and North takes the reigns. The androids got battered as a result.

 

I made it all the way to the end of Kara's story though, as the only upside. I got over to Canada, but at the cost of Luther, who I'd saved this time around.

 

Going to play through again to try to get an all good ending, and I want to see Marcus' time with Carl once you save him. I want to make Conner deviant and see if I can do a successful violent uprising with Marcus that may eventually lead to freedom.

 

I love the replayability of this game, it just sucks really hard that there's no way to skip boring scenes. You can go back to checkpoints but from the point you start playing you can't skip anything. Stuff like cleaning Todd's house, searching for graffiti, caring for Carl, scrapyard scene, there aren't many variables and once you've seen all they have to offer they're simply a waste of time. Still, kudos to Quantic Dream for having so many outcomes - my flowcharts are still full of holes, although I suspect a lot of them are fail states!

 

 

[Hubertus Bigend]

Just started this (picked it up for £30 with Heavy Rain in the PSN sale - rude not to, really) and I'm utterly engrossed and very, very impressed so far.

 

That tense hostage situation opener and taking out an abusive father's bins are up there with my gaming highlights of the year already.

 

A Shenmue style walking/job simulator with QTE events is a nice antidote to nerve-frazzling games like PUBG. The PS4's single player offerings are really stellar, you can see why Microsoft went on that developer binge recently - they're sorely lacking in this department.

[PyramidFace]

Please don't compare this utter drivel to Shenmue.

[deerokus]

Having not played this beyond the demo,  this can't be as bad as Shenmue. Not even Heavy Rain is that bad. 

[Trumpets]

I'm enjoying this game a lot. The sections where you have to scramble to escape from someone are incredibly tense, to the point where I'm messing up QTE's that I otherwise wouldn't, just through sheer panic.

 

The only thing I'm not keen on is the flowchart between scenes, and the inability to turn it off. Imagine watching a film where it breaks down each scene in graph form just after you've watched it. It really interrupts the flow.

[gossi the dog]

Looks like not many people played this. It completely passed me by at release and I picked it up last week on a whim (it’s currently on sale at several places for around £15) without doing any research.

 

There’s next to no actual gameplay, but as an experience it’s brilliant. 

 

 

[grounded_dreams]

I got this for Christmas, only been able to put a few hours into it but loving it so far. Have always enjoyed all of the Quantic Dream games (I'm one of those rare gamers that adored Beyond: Two Souls).

[gossi the dog]

@Alan Stock

 

 

I had Connor become deviant and Markus lead a successful bloody rebellion, which surprised me as I thought I’d properly messed up Markus’s storyline by trying to impress North, and was expecting it to end badly. Thinking about it you probably need Connor to become deviant and not get shot by your partner for this to work.

 

Kara made it, but Alice died (I assume you can make it with her?)

[grounded_dreams]

Just finished the game, thought it was brilliant, story was engaging and had nice twists and turns and only became a tad on the nose with it's broad story brush strokes nearer the end, but I expect that from Cage.

 

How my story for each character ended:

Spoiler

 

Kara and Alice didn't make it to Canada, got caught as they were trying to get to the bus station. In a camp Luther saved them by distracting the guards and Kara/Alice escaped and ended upto in a huge rubbish dump.

 

Connor was good friends with Hank, I saved Hank on the rooftop at the end. Connor met up Markus in a cargo ship and was there is kill him, but became deviant. In a huge warehouse full of androids, had a scene with two identical Connors and Hank was trying to work out which was the real one, he asked a question about his son - that scene really got to me, so well picked and written.Connor released all the androids after making them deviants.

 

With Markus, I went a passive peaceful route and at the march at the end, he kissed North and the army backed off and the President announced the army was to retreat and evacuated the city. Public opinion had decided they were a new form of intelligent life.

 

A huge speak from Markus occurred in front of all the deviant, Connor was hacked and spoke to Amanda who stated it was planned this way all along and he had accomplished his mission to infiltrated Gerico and he now need to kill Markus, but I think because I chose the empathy route in the Kamsky test earlier with the gun Chloe and, I found out about a hidden emergency test code and prevented Connor doing it.

 

Credits.

4

 

[Dark Soldier]

Was really enjoying this until my save file became corrupted to the point I cannot click continue (I just get a black screen) and choosing to pick a mission gives the below screen everytime. I'm about 8 hours in and cannot be arsed doing it all again.

 

The crash:

 

[PeteBrant]

1 hour ago, Dark Soldier said:

Was really enjoying this until my save file became corrupted to the point I cannot click continue (I just get a black screen) and choosing to pick a mission gives the below screen everytime. I'm about 8 hours in and cannot be arsed doing it all again.

 

The crash:

 

Can you not retrieve from cloud saves ?

[Dark Soldier]

I don't use PS+ 

[gossi the dog]

Just now, Dark Soldier said:

I don't use PS+ 

 

Have you checked the local saves? There should be two a main save and a checkpoint save. Don’t blame me if it goes wrong but I’d try deleting the latter...

 

 

[Dark Soldier]

27 minutes ago, gossi the dog said:

 

Have you checked the local saves? There should be two a main save and a checkpoint save. Don’t blame me if it goes wrong but I’d try deleting the latter...

 

 

Well God damn that worked and I now want to marry you!

 

Many thanks!