Detroit: Become Human

[Capwn]

I struggled with the demo, everything seems so sterile and cold. That's part of the style but it just added to the already tedious gameplay and this was just 10 minutes or so. I enjoyed HR and BTS but for some reason the fact that it maps everything out for you makes it feel so calculated, I think I prefer the idea of not knowing what's behind the curtain. So I'm just holding back, waiting for reviews.

[Talk Show Host]

I actually thought that even though many things are sign posted, the tension of finding the clues before you have to deal with the rogue Android was well done. I entered the confrontation feeling very insecure and not being in total control, so I thought the scene worked fine for the most part. 

 

I will be buying this no matter what because narrative and writing - along with AI - are the two main areas that are keeping videogames back and I like to offer my support when I see proper efforts like these. Even if they turn out to be bad. 

[Qazimod]

 

[Broker]

On 15/05/2018 at 11:34, Talk Show Host said:

I will be buying this no matter what because narrative and writing - along with AI - are the two main areas that are keeping videogames back and I like to offer my support when I see proper efforts like these. Even if they turn out to be bad. 

 

 

There’s better narrative and writing on the back of cereal boxes.

[Talk Show Host]

3 hours ago, Broker said:

 

 

There’s better narrative and writing on the back of cereal boxes.

 

No, not really. For our medium is a good effort and much, much better of what is usually considered as ''good writing'' in the industry. Still not nearly good enough of course.

[Broker]

3 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

No, not really. For our medium is a good effort and much, much better of what is usually considered as ''good writing'' in the industry. Still not nearly good enough of course.

 

I think if you’re looking for something that apes cinematic style, you’d be better off with something less deranged, less tinged with insane conspiracy and less sexist and racist. Spec Ops: The Line or The Last of Us come to mind. However, I’d argue that the best written games are the ones that incorporate a degree of interactivity into the narrative, either in a game like Edith Finch or in a more experimental way like the narrative in Bloodborne that you piece together yourself from scattered fragments. Something that actually uses the medium as a strength, rather than a poorly written cutscene that occasionally pauses itself and asks you to press a button to continue.

[Simmy]

Wtf?! The shite writing is precisely why these games have the potential to be amazing fun to play!

[Talk Show Host]

5 hours ago, Broker said:

 

I think if you’re looking for something that apes cinematic style, you’d be better off with something less deranged, less tinged with insane conspiracy and less sexist and racist. Spec Ops: The Line or The Last of Us come to mind. However, I’d argue that the best written games are the ones that incorporate a degree of interactivity into the narrative, either in a game like Edith Finch or in a more experimental way like the narrative in Bloodborne that you piece together yourself from scattered fragments. Something that actually uses the medium as a strength, rather than a poorly written cutscene that occasionally pauses itself and asks you to press a button to continue.

 

The fact that there are better games out there when it comes to writing doesn't negate the effort of Cage's games and the style of cinematic storytelling he is trying to go for. I find the style of storytelling paths that the player chooses to be a method that uses the medium's strengths much better than Last of Us, (the same way you talk about Bloodborne's use of the medium strengths, albeit in a different style), even though Last of Us is a much better written game than anything Cage has given us. 

 

HR was an ambitious game and it succeeded on many things. I agree that Cage should generally stay away from the script page but his passion for storytelling cannot be denied and his games sometimes go to places that the industry rarely goes. 

[deerokus]

I've been rewatching the classic Two Best Friends Play... of Heavy Rain. The only way to experience that shitshow. I had forgotten how heavily it relies on (unintentional?) slapstick comedy chase scenes that totally clash with the attempted mood of the thing. The one where you have to chase a guy who keeps throwing stuff at you in the supermarket - including flocks of LIVE CHICKENS - is like a rejected Marx Brothers bit. But it's played totally serious! 

 

At least we will get a new one of those out of this. It's like Sony keep spunking money on the Tommy Wiseau of games just for those guys. 

[Alan Stock]

Eurogamer Review is out - no badges awarded

"Clumsy yet effective robot-rights thriller"

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-05-24-detroit-become-human-review-clumsy-yet-effective-robot-rights-thriller

 

It's what I expected, disappointing, but I'll still probably pick it up at some point. I really like Cage games for the most part so I'm wondering if the reviews will be polarised. Once I get immersed only the most stupid Cageisms pull me out from the spell.

 

PS I hate the marketing for this, I mean who the hell wants to play a game with these uncanny valley dead shells? I know they're robots but cmon man.

 

[Eighthours]

7 minutes ago, Alan Stock said:

Eurogamer Review is out - no badges awarded

"Clumsy yet effective robot-rights thriller"

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-05-24-detroit-become-human-review-clumsy-yet-effective-robot-rights-thriller

 

It's what I expected, disappointing, but I'll still probably pick it up at some point. I really like Cage games for the most part so I'm wondering if the reviews will be polarised. Once I get immersed only the most stupid Cageisms pull me out from the spell.

 

PS I hate the marketing for this, I mean who the hell wants to play a game with these uncanny valley dead shells? I know they're robots but cmon man.

 

 

To be fair, the review read like a recommendation for much of it before Oli Welsh started going into the political/racial allegory debate.

 

The final paragraph: 'With this glib, rabble-rousing and admittedly enjoyable thriller, Quantic Dream has finally delivered on the promise of its interactive storytelling format, and resolved its difficult relationship with cinema. Its difficult relationship with the real world, though, is just beginning.'

[Eighthours]

8.0 from IGN: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2018/05/24/detroit-become-human-review

 

'Detroit: Become Human is a poignantly pulpy interactive sci-fi drama where your choices can impact events to a greater and more satisfying degree than in most games of this type. Though I wish its story had been handled with a softer touch, especially considering the subtlety that can be conveyed through its tech and performances, its well-written and acted central trio were vital enough to me that I found myself feeling genuine distress when they were in danger and a sense of victory when they triumphed. Most importantly, Detroit offers a multitude of transparent branching paths that entice further playthroughs.' 

[Alan Stock]

Although the story sounds much better than expected, I agree with Capwn that having the flowcharts shown by default really spoils things a bit. In games like the Zero Escape series, a flowchart makes sense as you need to play through the game multiple times to progress. Cage games are often accused of not having enough player choice - so the flowcharts solve that problem and prove that there are many different ways things can unfold. But the most effective moments in Cage games for me are those tense times when you're scared any action you take could have catastrophic consequences on the story.

 

When you know how many plot "routes" there are, it lowers the tension and becomes more about experimentation and curiosity. Rather than being invested much in the story you're constantly reminded that you're just playing one strand of it. It's laid bare so you know how many "big choices" really matter.

 

I'm not against the flowchart system in general, I think it's good to have as an option you can enable after a first playthrough if you don't want to waste time. But having it on from the start is a bad idea.

 

As a side note on these kinds of games - I recently played Stein's Gate 0 which also features a branching storyline. However it's a visual novel and the "branch points" are very telegraphed. There is also no flowchart to look at. But in that game you feel invested in every branch of the story when you replay the game - because its a time travel story. In Stein's Gate, each "branch" is a separate timeline and they have an impact on each other. You know that each option you chose really "happened" to the characters - which gives your choices meaning even on multiple playthroughs.

 

It's made me realise that branching storylines are much more effective when each playthrough "matters" - rather than the first one being impactful and then replaying out of curiosity. If you get a bad ending on the first playthrough of a Cage game, you kind of feel like you failed, even though you can go back and make different choices to "win".

[Simmy]

Flowchart showing the outcome of your actions?

 

Ohhhhh boy, I cannot fucking WAIT for Limmy to get his hands on this and choose the scummiest route humanly possible!

[Alan Stock]

Kotaku review not so positive:

"Heck, for all their flaws, even Quantic Dream’s own Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls were more engaging and experimental than this. Detroit feels blunted and conservative by comparison, just a collection of pretty faces with little to say."

 

https://kotaku.com/detroit-become-human-the-kotaku-review-1826277408

[sandman]

is it co-op only?

[AI1]

 

"I made ze average game"

 

[deerokus]

56 minutes ago, sandman said:

is it co-op only?

There's no co-op whatsoever. 

[Stanley]

56 minutes ago, sandman said:

is it co-op only?

It's single player only I think.

[Kevvy Metal]

Man, Fahrenheit was the most hilarious game ever. I loved it so much. The demo is unbelievable too. 

 

 

[deerokus]

People on a Facebook group I am in seem to have fallen for the 'good' reviews. This is how his games keep selling well enough to get made. 

 

His games always get a number of good reviews, even the abominable Fahrenheit is sitting at 85 metacritic. 

 

Lots of reviewers seem to lose critical faculties with his games just because they're lavishly-enough produced genre fiction.

[Talk Show Host]

7 hours ago, Alan Stock said:

Although the story sounds much better than expected, I agree with Capwn that having the flowcharts shown by default really spoils things a bit. In games like the Zero Escape series, a flowchart makes sense as you need to play through the game multiple times to progress. Cage games are often accused of not having enough player choice - so the flowcharts solve that problem and prove that there are many different ways things can unfold. But the most effective moments in Cage games for me are those tense times when you're scared any action you take could have catastrophic consequences on the story.

 

When you know how many plot "routes" there are, it lowers the tension and becomes more about experimentation and curiosity. Rather than being invested much in the story you're constantly reminded that you're just playing one strand of it. It's laid bare so you know how many "big choices" really matter.

 

I'm not against the flowchart system in general, I think it's good to have as an option you can enable after a first playthrough if you don't want to waste time. But having it on from the start is a bad idea.

 

As a side note on these kinds of games - I recently played Stein's Gate 0 which also features a branching storyline. However it's a visual novel and the "branch points" are very telegraphed. There is also no flowchart to look at. But in that game you feel invested in every branch of the story when you replay the game - because its a time travel story. In Stein's Gate, each "branch" is a separate timeline and they have an impact on each other. You know that each option you chose really "happened" to the characters - which gives your choices meaning even on multiple playthroughs.

 

It's made me realise that branching storylines are much more effective when each playthrough "matters" - rather than the first one being impactful and then replaying out of curiosity. If you get a bad ending on the first playthrough of a Cage game, you kind of feel like you failed, even though you can go back and make different choices to "win".

 

I thought that you only see the flowchart after you finish a mission and you have to go into the menu to see it, so it's a choice. What did I miss? 

 

Also, I'm glad this gets good reviews. Many good comments for the characters and the breadth of choices available to the player.

 

edit:  It's also weird to read that "people fall for the good reviews". What a strange generalisation, as if when you like these games or even parts of these games you are somehow fooling yourself. Wow. 

[PeteBrant]

a must buy *if* you like this sort of game . My copy is downloading right now .

[krenzler]

The attention to detail is amazing.

 

 

[krenzler]

 

[Talk Show Host]

Yes, from the videos I have seen it looks truly incredible tech wise.

[dave7g]

12 hours ago, deerokus said:

People on a Facebook group I am in seem to have fallen for the 'good' reviews. This is how his games keep selling well enough to get made. 

 

His games always get a number of good reviews, even the abominable Fahrenheit is sitting at 85 metacritic. 

 

Lots of reviewers seem to lose critical faculties with his games just because they're lavishly-enough produced genre fiction.

 

Should we ignore good reviews? Maybe people enjoy his games?

[womblingfree]

I enjoy his games. 

[Thor]

I also enjoy his games. Will pick this up today 

[Gizamaluke]

Me too. Although I'm playing Fahrenheit on my phone while on holiday and it has aged really badly. I'm looking forward to this.