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Graham S retired

Still need the Racing folder?

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Unbelivable. Actually, pathetic.

We were asked 3 times. 3 times we were the most vocal opponents to any change across any sub folder especially with Forza 6 coming up (a new Forza game always generating at least 3 separate interconnected threads), and pCars being active. 3 times we were TOLD we were told there was a clear interest for maintaining the status quo. So much for listening to the voice of the community.

Certainly makes me less interested in posting in the future.

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(Personal views not committee)

It is very difficult almost impossible to please everyone, It's my first year on the committee & I have not been involved in any of the previous discussions.

Online is not a busy forum folder compared to Discussion or Off Topic, looking at the current threads even page one has threads dated 2014.

Even with the upcoming Forza game you mention, I really don't see how having three threads in online is going to be an issue. If anything by having those three threads in online other members may potentially see how busy the online folder is & it may tempt them to participate in playing the game.

With Destiny I did not object to that sub folder because it has 12 active threads this month alone. If & when the threads die down to 2 or 3 a month then I'd be keen to move those back to online & delete the subfolder.

With me being on the committee I am keen to see a consistent approach across any decisions made & hope the post from the the committee on online & subfolders shows this approach. There was discussion about a strategy/tips folder & I was keen to have this but equally do not want a dead top level/subfolder without any threads. So the decision on that makes sense, if the members make enough strategy/tips threads then a folder will be created. I follow the Destiny discussion thread & I will be pulling out any strategy/tips post to create new threads.

Sorry you feel less interested in posting in future, I hope you will change your mind & I'm happy to discuss the decision with you via PM.

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To be honest gospvg I would prefer this to be a public discussion as it affects more people than me at present since I am not currently active in any racing game (waiting on Forza 6, you see).

Absolutely not personal (I am targeting the decision and the process that was used, I am absolutely sure your involvement and other members of the committee have not targeted our group personally as why would you?) but we had a very tight (but inviting, I can't tell you how many people we were able to welcome in as a result of both organized FH2 and F1 work) community in racing which stands to be ruined. Lack of new threads I can appreciate but every thread that had active involvement was very busy and there was a lot of cross pollination in that entire group. It was very much like the FIFA group in terms of camaraderie but with less members - but we made a lot of effort to make that happened. We dragged people from those discussion threads right here into the online threads without shitting them up.

I am personally very upset at three things and I would suspect I would speak for much of the group when I say this:

1) Again, we've defended this 3 times. Unfortunately the previous threads have been deleted, which a quick review of would've shown how passionate everyone involved was and the rationale for it.
2) The process for deletion of the racing sub-forum was taken in 5 days with barely any discussion with the racing fraternity. Absolutely zero effort to engage outside of a thread I didn't even see this thread until it happened (I've been busy trying to get a new job), previous efforts had been pinned and an attempt to engage with the mini-community was made. We had a discussion over a period of time. It feels like the Scottish referendum - keep hammering them in different ways until they submit or are unable to defend the forum's position.

3) The suggestion that having the sub-forum damaged the idea of engaging in the games is quite frankly the biggest load of horseshit I've heard in a long time and is the one element of this that makes me angry more than anything else. We were able to very easily advertise and attract people to the relevent online threads in the discussion threads, and during F1 2011 and Forza 3/4 championships this was incredibly relevant. There were times when we had too many people to fit into a single lobby, for crying out loud. It is now that much harder to make that happen again - the appearance of casual threads do not garner the same interest.

What damaged the community's participation and activity in racing games is no more than the lukewarm reception to the Xbox One, the limited numbers available to participate in any potential Forza 5 effort, and no comparable experience on PS4 at the time. With Project Cars and Forza Horizon 2, and Forza 6 (and the Bone's revival of sorts) on the horizon, that element was well on the way to being fixed. I had big plans which I had started discussions with Boozy on for a long term Forza 6 championship that will now be swallowed by the machine and is not something I have the time to "market" above anything else and my interest in starting it has taken a major battering (I'm starting a new job soon which is obviously far more important than endlessly bumping a thread to make sure people actually see it). Why would I now bother with that fight (already a time consuming effort when it comes to divising structure, rules and dates) when we don't have our own community? I can hop off to one of the other forums racing championships and just participate in a dedicated community instead.

Active championships, by and large, don't happen in the general online forum. Especially ones that have now run for 8 seasons across two different franchises.

I can see the committee's argument on lack of activity to a degree, but if you take a look 18 of the threads now present on the front page of online are racing related, additionally several of them refer to the same game. It's not something that is easy to manage or consider against everything else. Racing and driving games appeal to a wide range of disciplines and much like Destiny, you cannot cover everything in one thread.

The racing forum saw both Codemasters developers getting involved and an inter-forum (with Eurogamer, no less) race of champions event. Even Helios from Turn 10 put up Forza credits as a prize for one of our FH2 championships. I don't think a lot, if any online activity here can boast those achievements. That legacy now lies in tatters buried under a million and one casual matchmaking threads.

I think this decision has very negatively impacted what we can do with racing games going forward. Again, this is not the sub-forum's fault, it is the transition from old gen to new gen and is something that fixes itself over time. It will happen again. Even the FIFA league has had the same issues, unable to get the numbers between console transitions to keep the 1v1 league running.

I live in hope the decision can be reversed but I really don't feel on basis of everything we went through to save that portion of the forum that we've been considered *AT ALL*.

Disgusted with the decision, appalled with the process adopted. It needed more care and time applied to it and active involvement from a community who largely didn't know what was happening (with exception of Mexos and Boozy, by the looks of it). I am also quite tired of having to defend this point - again, it feels like the committee wanted this to happen whatever the consequence. Disappointing, will damage what we do going forward.

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Thanks for your reply sixbuttons, I will read thoroughly & reply with a response later.

Just let me very quickly say that any decision can be reversed.

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Thank you for your consideration gospvg.

If there is an opportunity for any of the racing community to have a direct conversation with the committee regarding this I'm sure we would be up for that.

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I wanted to reply to specific points & also easier for me to ask the questions so apologies have snipped your post into quotes below.

2) The process for deletion of the racing sub-forum was taken in 5 days with barely any discussion with the racing fraternity. Absolutely zero effort to engage outside of a thread I didn't even see this thread until it happened (I've been busy trying to get a new job), previous efforts had been pinned and an attempt to engage with the mini-community was made. We had a discussion over a period of time. It feels like the Scottish referendum - keep hammering them in different ways until they submit or are unable to defend the forum's position.

I would like to apologise on this, being new to the committee I'm enthusiastic to get things done & processed so I may have played a part in pushing this along quicker than it was needed.

I've failed on one of my election pledges Change is inevitable but I like to take a more measured & inclusive approach instead of bulldozing.

Once again sorry going forward I will suggest to the committee that we give the community ample time (at least 28 days to respond) before we make any major change.

3) The suggestion that having the sub-forum damaged the idea of engaging in the games is quite frankly the biggest load of horseshit I've heard in a long time and is the one element of this that makes me angry more than anything else. We were able to very easily advertise and attract people to the relevent online threads in the discussion threads, and during F1 2011 and Forza 3/4 championships this was incredibly relevant. There were times when we had too many people to fit into a single lobby, for crying out loud. It is now that much harder to make that happen again - the appearance of casual threads do not garner the same interest.

Is it not the threads that will attract the members not the location of where those threads are based be they in a racing subfolder or a top level online folder?

I had big plans which I had started discussions with Boozy on for a long term Forza 6 championship that will now be swallowed by the machine and is not something I have the time to "market" above anything else and my interest in starting it has taken a major battering (I'm starting a new job soon which is obviously far more important than endlessly bumping a thread to make sure people actually see it). Why would I now bother with that fight (already a time consuming effort when it comes to divising structure, rules and dates) when we don't have our own community? I can hop off to one of the other forums racing championships and just participate in a dedicated community instead.

Firstly I agree your new job is more important (congratulations) & I do love your enthusiasm in planning with Boozy potential championships for future games. We do not want to lose this enthusiasm it is members like yourself & others who take the time out to organise & run these championships that keep the gamers gaming. I would not want you to leave.

The (gaming) community is still here looking at the Fifa/Destiny/Rocket League threads, there is a still a bit of last gen to next gen movement & more of a console split with this new gen but I'm sure that will settle in the next 12 months.

I can see the committee's argument on lack of activity to a degree, but if you take a look 18 of the threads now present on the front page of online are racing related, additionally several of them refer to the same game. It's not something that is easy to manage or consider against everything else. Racing and driving games appeal to a wide range of disciplines and much like Destiny, you cannot cover everything in one thread.

Agree with the threads moving out of racing there is a lot of racing threads in online but looking at activity there are very few active threads. My opinion on the sub-fourm decision was made on the basis of that if 7 to 10 active threads a month then that game/genre needs a sub forum. Once it drops to 2 to 3 a month then the sub-folder is deleted & the threads moved back into online this is how the decision on the WoW sub forum was decided.

I live in hope the decision can be reversed but I really don't feel on basis of everything we went through to save that portion of the forum that we've been considered *AT ALL*.

Disgusted with the decision, appalled with the process adopted. It needed more care and time applied to it and active involvement from a community who largely didn't know what was happening (with exception of Mexos and Boozy, by the looks of it). I am also quite tired of having to defend this point - again, it feels like the committee wanted this to happen whatever the consequence. Disappointing, will damage what we do going forward.

Any decision can be reversed, the committee did not decide to pick on the racing subforum but like the WoW sub-forum we looked to tidy up the forum & remove the quieter sub-forums & merge them back into the top level folders.

I've re-read my replies quite a few times but would still like to apologise if any of them offend, happy to have an ongoing conversation in this thread.

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I would like to apologise on this, being new to the committee I'm enthusiastic to get things done & processed so I may have played a part in pushing this along quicker than it was needed.

I've failed on one of my election pledges Change is inevitable but I like to take a more measured & inclusive approach instead of bulldozing.

Once again sorry going forward I will suggest to the committee that we give the community ample time (at least 28 days to respond) before we make any major change.

Not at all, I and everyone else appreciates the response. It means a lot that this isn't being glossed over and we can hopefully come to a compromise.
Is it not the threads that will attract the members not the location of where those threads are based be they in a racing subfolder or a top level online folder?
Yes and no. Unfortunately it's not black or white. I am a proponent of the belief that by grouping threads by genre (not game, unless the game is big like Destiny or FIFA) you can get a lot more interest easily, as on the whole people don't like to go looking. I believe this has been proven time and time again by the marketing actions in a number of discussion threads, not just racing ones either.
I can see the argument for making the threads more visible but again, it's that cross pollination when it comes to racing - we have to respect that whilst other genres of games can vary massively from game to game, simulation racers largely play out the same - if you're good at one, you're probably good at others without much adjustment required. If you (hypothetically) have a Forza car club, Forza time trial and Forza championship thread all at the top of a sub-forum, it's much easier to be drawn into one and then subsequently all when you back out to that sub-forum. The potential of missing that is very much there if everything isn't sat together.
I think the crux of the argument is organization. Perhaps a better way around it would be to have, at least for the time being, a general online Racing thread where all appropriate racing game threads are grouped and linked by game in a single post (and obviously for any other sub-communities where this kind of thing would make management of their own collection of threads simpler). That would certainly make things a lot easier to manage, but on the other side requires extensive manual editing (and bumping) for whoever starts it so we still lose out.
Unless there is a technical solution for this the forum can provide?

(side question: Why isn't the forum calendar being used for organised online events of ANY kind?)

I still have reservations about whether something like that would work though. I stress again, the way the community became what it was was out of the ease at which the opportunity to cross-pollinate was presented to us.

Firstly I agree your new job is more important (congratulations) & I do love your enthusiasm in planning with Boozy potential championships for future games. We do not want to lose this enthusiasm it is members like yourself & others who take the time out to organise & run these championships that keep the gamers gaming. I would not want you to leave.

The (gaming) community is still here looking at the Fifa/Destiny/Rocket League threads, there is a still a bit of last gen to next gen movement & more of a console split with this new gen but I'm sure that will settle in the next 12 months.

Thank you :) I would prefer not to leave. I love the crazy bastards I get to play with. But organising these things is a massive ballache. The payoff is always worth it, but we need the process of managing it publically to be as easy as possible because God knows running the actual events isn't.

I don't think FIFA and Destiny are relevant here because they are individual huge games with massive player bases. Other games do well to get regular participation of 5-10 players. We've had 15-20 (and before my time here, way above that) as part of the racing community for over 5 years, with cross over across games of course. Even a game as divisive as Project Cars has managed to pick up regular participation of around 8 players. With all due respect to all other online mini-communities here, I don't think any one else has managed that as part of a genre split, only us.

Will Rocket League? Time will tell of course. But I don't think you can deny it would be a rare exception.

Agree with the threads moving out of racing there is a lot of racing threads in online but looking at activity there are very few active threads. My opinion on the sub-fourm decision was made on the basis of that if 7 to 10 active threads a month then that game/genre needs a sub forum. Once it drops to 2 to 3 a month then the sub-folder is deleted & the threads moved back into online this is how the decision on the WoW sub forum was decided.
I see your point, at the same time I feel that's very tricky to quantify. It's filled online up with a lot of threads that perhaps don't even belong here, and certainly ones the racing group may have read again for information but never would've bumped. Maybe archiving the sub-forum back past a certain date rather than wholesale folding threads into online would've been a better solution. Something for other sub-forums if it crops up again perhaps. It's not a big deal to me personally now it's been done although again, it is a bit of a shame that legacy is now just part of something more generic.

Any decision can be reversed, the committee did not decide to pick on the racing subforum but like the WoW sub-forum we looked to tidy up the forum & remove the quieter sub-forums & merge them back into the top level folders.

I've re-read my replies quite a few times but would still like to apologise if any of them offend, happy to have an ongoing conversation in this thread.

Nothing offends, I appreciate that we can have a conservation about this. I'm very keen whether we have a folder or not to have a managable approach to online racing. What we have now will damage the community we've built - the threads have only been taken one layer up so they're still not openly visible in the most popular area of the forum (I know there's a discussion about that happening which I am absolutely opposed to, it would kill everything online because threads would be quickly pushed to page 2 and onwards where they would have no traction and not much interest). What we profit in from potential new racers we will lose from disenfranchised veterans. I hope you can see why we're a bit miffed at having lost an important part of the forum (for us anyway) despite proving its importance on three seperate occasions, although I 100% appreciate you personally had no part or knowledge of this.
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Once again thanks for the reply, will read thoroughly & replay later.

I've gone and added tags to the racing threads just to get a feel for what they look like.

Agree, I'm sure we can come up with a compromise.

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I know tags are half-arsed at the moment because you can't see them on mobile, but they could help to organise the Online folder. For example, it is possible to view a page that lists every thread with a certain tag. For example, here is the World of Warcraft thread listing:

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/tags/forums/WoW/

This works on mobile too, so a single thread (maybe a sticky) that simply links to the 'Racing' tag would at least keep all threads in a single repository. Thing is, we already have a 'Racing' tag and I assume tags go across forums - so you'd get threads from 'Discussion' mixed in with the online ones.

It might be possible to create URLs that combine tags and restrict to the 'Online' folder (the search can already perform that combo of queries but the URL it generates isn't permanent unfortunately). So you could go further be tagging every thread in Online with the platform it pertains to (XBL, PSN, ummm...whatever Nintendo call online offering). This would help people to find online games on their machine.

Anyway, I know tags aren't a great solution at the moment but it's possible to do some stuff with them that would make your suggestions much easier to administer, sixbuttons.

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To be fair, I think a poll should of been placed in the Racing folder to see if the guys wanted to keep it who use it or not. It does seem like the committee, who no offence probably don't use the racing folder have just gone remove it, because quite frankly they dont care about it.

Furthermore I was apart of the F1 when it was about, joined pCars for a while and things but then stopped. Like Six im not apart of any racing league at the moment, but personally I think it should of stayed. Close knit bunch of guys used that folder.

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oh, not this again.

As another person who's set up and run championships in the racing folder, (and done time as a professional community manager in the past), my key point is this - what sixbuttons has posted is true - the RLLMUK racing community was hit pretty hard by the generation transition (fragmentation from xbox360 to a sony/ms split, Forza5 being disappointingly limited, nothing worthy of the name on PS4 until Pcars came out, and codies fucking up the F1 series). I only got an xbox one a few months ago and like sixbuttons, I've been making some plans in the run-up to FM6.

Online racing is a very different thing to other forms of online gaming, because, while it's competitive, it's also co-operative at the same time - you need to trust that your fierce opponent, the guy you're wheel-to-wheel with at 200mph down the mulsanne straight, dicing for the win, will drive with consideration and not crash into you. He needs to feel the same way about you. It requires a very different mindset to any other form of online gaming I've ever taken part in and for that reason it gives rise to a very unique kind of community. So, It;s because of this that I really don;t see the benefit. It's highly unlikely you'll see much cross pollination from other forms of online gaming into the racing series, (or in the other direction) that wouldn't have happened anyway via the main per-game discussion threads.

So, with that in mind, I;m not quite as pessimistic - I don't think this will massively harm things. but equally I don;t see that there'll be any benefit. feels like fixing something that wasn't broken in the first place.

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I think the crux of the argument is organization. Perhaps a better way around it would be to have, at least for the time being, a general online Racing thread where all appropriate racing game threads are grouped and linked by game in a single post (and obviously for any other sub-communities where this kind of thing would make management of their own collection of threads simpler). That would certainly make things a lot easier to manage, but on the other side requires extensive manual editing (and bumping) for whoever starts it so we still lose out.

I have added tags to all the recent racing threads & created a pinned RLLMUK Racing thread in online, how does that look?

Unless there is a technical solution for this the forum can provide?

(side question: Why isn't the forum calendar being used for organised online events of ANY kind?)

Not sure, maybe the next version of the forum software could provide some better functionality. The calendar I believe has been opened up to all members

Answer from TehStu on the calendar

I've made the following changes to the calendar:
- changes the permissions to enable anyone who is in one of the standard user groups (members, supporters, moderators, admin, finance, tech, marketing, legal, committee, etc) to be able to use all features of the calendar (create event, comment, RSVP, etc.)
- I disabled all access by all other groups, including guests and bots. This is because:
- birthdays were visible, so I disabled it. No sense bots trawling birthdays

I see your point, at the same time I feel that's very tricky to quantify. It's filled online up with a lot of threads that perhaps don't even belong here, and certainly ones the racing group may have read again for information but never would've bumped. Maybe archiving the sub-forum back past a certain date rather than wholesale folding threads into online would've been a better solution. Something for other sub-forums if it crops up again perhaps. It's not a big deal to me personally now it's been done although again, it is a bit of a shame that legacy is now just part of something more generic.

Archiving old threads is something I will discuss with the committee.

Nothing offends, I appreciate that we can have a conservation about this. I'm very keen whether we have a folder or not to have a managable approach to online racing. What we have now will damage the community we've built - the threads have only been taken one layer up so they're still not openly visible in the most popular area of the forum (I know there's a discussion about that happening which I am absolutely opposed to, it would kill everything online because threads would be quickly pushed to page 2 and onwards where they would have no traction and not much interest). What we profit in from potential new racers we will lose from disenfranchised veterans. I hope you can see why we're a bit miffed at having lost an important part of the forum (for us anyway) despite proving its importance on three seperate occasions, although I 100% appreciate you personally had no part or knowledge of this.

I am not keen on moving online to become a subfolder of discussion, agree the change could have been handled better but hopefully we can work towards a compromise. I'm keen to see active threads in online which is a void I feel the racing threads can fill. Let me know your thoughts on the tags/index, apologies I was going to reply yesterday evening but could not find the free time I needed.

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I have added tags to all the recent racing threads & created a pinned RLLMUK Racing thread in online, how does that look?

So I think that's a good start. I think the primary tag at the start of each thread needs to be more genre related than game related, that just seems to me that it would work better, but I like where this is going.

I do think we need a member of staff in Online who's willing to monitor this and tag up threads accordingly though on an ongoing basis though, as whether thread openers remember to add tags is another matter entirely! Not moderating, just tagging.

Not sure, maybe the next version of the forum software could provide some better functionality. The calendar I believe has been opened up to all members

Answer from TehStu on the calendar

I've made the following changes to the calendar:
- changes the permissions to enable anyone who is in one of the standard user groups (members, supporters, moderators, admin, finance, tech, marketing, legal, committee, etc) to be able to use all features of the calendar (create event, comment, RSVP, etc.)
- I disabled all access by all other groups, including guests and bots. This is because:
- birthdays were visible, so I disabled it. No sense bots trawling birthdays

All good, everyone's just going to have to remember to use it. And not abuse it :(

Anyway, I know tags aren't a great solution at the moment but it's possible to do some stuff with them that would make your suggestions much easier to administer, sixbuttons.

To be fair, I think as long as that primary tag that appears in the big grey box at the start of every thread is done by genre rather than game there's a good chance that works better as a compromise, particularly if the tag link you posted works as it should (although perhaps in every case this needs to be prefaced with "online" as Racing is tagged in all kinds of general discussion threads too).

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So I think that's a good start. I think the primary tag at the start of each thread needs to be more genre related than game related, that just seems to me that it would work better, but I like where this is going.

I do think we need a member of staff in Online who's willing to monitor this and tag up threads accordingly though on an ongoing basis though, as whether thread openers remember to add tags is another matter entirely! Not moderating, just tagging.

Done, I have changed them all to Racing, I think the search for tags takes a while before it works so tomorrow when clicking on the racing tag is should bring back the online threads if not already.

I don't anticipate that many threads but I'm happy or any mod I'm sure to do the housekeeping to ensure 'racing' is the primary tag.

What do you think about the pinned thread?

Needed or not? Again I'm happy to update this thread with new threads if & when needed.

To be fair, I think as long as that primary tag that appears in the big grey box at the start of every thread is done by genre rather than game there's a good chance that works better as a compromise, particularly if the tag link you posted works as it should (although perhaps in every case this needs to be prefaced with "online" as Racing is tagged in all kinds of general discussion threads too).

I can change to 'online racing' to keep it unique?

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Done, I have changed them all to Racing, I think the search for tags takes a while before it works so tomorrow when clicking on the racing tag is should bring back the online threads if not already.

I don't anticipate that many threads but I'm happy or any mod I'm sure to do the housekeeping to ensure 'racing' is the primary tag.

What do you think about the pinned thread?

Needed or not? Again I'm happy to update this thread with new threads if & when needed.

I can change to 'online racing' to keep it unique?

All seems fair. You have my vote next time :) (haha)

Nah, I don't think the thread is needed with the tagging in place. In fact with the tagging I think an explantory pinned thread of what to do/how to view with tags (even though it is simple) would probably be a better use, again from the general point of view rather than online racing specific.

I definitely think changing it to Online Racing would be the best solution, just to keep it away from the general discussion threads.

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All seems fair. You have my vote next time :) (haha)

Nah, I don't think the thread is needed with the tagging in place. In fact with the tagging I think an explantory pinned thread of what to do/how to view with tags (even though it is simple) would probably be a better use, again from the general point of view rather than online racing specific.

I definitely think changing it to Online Racing would be the best solution, just to keep it away from the general discussion threads.

Done, all changed to Online Racing & then the game name for a second tag.

Give search a while to update (should be ok tomorrow)

On a guide, I need to check with the tech guys first because tags are configured uniquely for different forums & I would like to create a generic guide that works across all forums.

Going forward I or a mod will keep an eye on the tags to ensure Online Racing is the main tag & the game name for a second tag.

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I've looked into tags a bit more & created some pre-defined tags below

post-18024-0-16670000-1438180719.jpg

you can add these by using the drop down on the tags section when starting a new thread, ensure the "use first tag as prefix" checkbox is ticked & select Online Racing tag first for it to be the main tag.

post-18024-0-97970100-1438180779.jpg

I've gone with the most popular games now & added some coming soon like Forza 6, Need for Speed & TrackMania.

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Thanks for your help gos - as Rice said, the aggro is the decision, not anything against anyone personally.

I can do nothing other than echo Rice really - he put it very well. I know it probably sounds silly to people who don't join us for online races, but it's an incredibly tight knit little community. I can only really talk about the F1 group with any full knowledge, but between September 2010 and September 2013 we were online racing almost every day. No hyperbole in that either; we really squeezed every last ounce of burnt rubber out of those virtual cars.

As a group we got to know each other pretty well and myself, Marmite and Myoozikk all went to the F1 2011 launch event in London and a whole group went the following year to Codies HQ to chat about and test the game, and also have a go kart race against the devs too. That's pretty cool stuff and whilst we were really fortunate to be given the opportunity, I think it also stood testament to how popular and thriving the RLLMUK league was at that time. We made so much noise the developers themselves heard. It was really cool.

It also provided some of the best and occasionally most hilarious online gaming moments ever. The best? Things like a dozen of us managing a 50% race around Monaco with barely a single collision or incident despite some close racing. The race in Canada when me, Marmite and Picasso basically ran three-wide for the entire duration in soaking wet conditions and all made it out the other end unscathed. Me using a sneaky stealth bastard strategy to almost win in Malaysia one season. The fact that most of the newcomers became regulars so quickly we felt as if they'd been racing with us for years.

The hilarious? Me castigating Meerman loudly for spinning as I went past, only to discover it wasn't him when he asked me what the fuck I was going on about. Moodmon and Rice ripping on each other whilst contesting a fastest lap championship. Someone mistaking Meerman's impossibly loud gear shifting for a photocopier. Myoozikk spinning off due to his cat jumping in front of him at the worst possible moment of all time. Meerman proudly and excitedly announcing he had a new car to show us, only for it to be a small white van. Dayte and Myoozikk accidentally double stacking in the McLaren pits consistently, despite us all finding it increasingly amusing.

Most of that stuff is definitely 'you had to be there' kinds of things, but that's the whole point I guess; we were having so much fun with it as a group that stuff like that was hilarious. The whole thing even inspired me to write (overly long) write ups of the races, fake news flashes and organise an elaborate team reveal for a few of the seasons so the whole group could have ana element of mystery attached to who was driving where for the next few months.

I can't deny it hasn't been as busy recently, because it obviously hasn't. The jump to the new generation did fragment the group but hopefully in time we will all get both major machines once the prices are convenient to do so. Plus, loads of us are still racing. The recent pCars championship, excellently organised by Joe, was popular, and I am looking forward to getting back on and racing some more when my personal circumstances calm down a little. I suspect that at some point down the line we will all gravitate back to the F1 game too, because although the thing is buggy as a mofo the driving is the best it's ever been and we will get some awesome races in a stable online environment. Even when there's been a lull in activity, we all keep coming back.

Having our own folder was great, because for all intents and purposes that was where most of our interest lay. I think over 70% of my posts were probably made in there. We could come to he various threads and chat shit about wing angles, brake balances and JohnO's tremendous hairstyle and it'd be all contained in our regular little area. That wasn't going to change either - there'll always be a good group of racers here. I think the sheer number of threads to do with it present in the first few pages of Online and the number of pages within those threads confirms most of what I have already said.

I think the best way I can sum it up is, 'our' little community is so cool and so fun to be part of for me that I am going to drop £300 on a new console and £50 on a game just to be part of the Forza 6 fun later In the year, and I already know without question that is more than enough to justify the purchase for me.

Anyway, will stop boring the bollocks off you. I'd be really pleased to have a folder back in the future if it was ever possible. There are years of memories and cool stuff in the racing threads for all of us, and there'll be more to come. It'd be nice to have it all grouped together once more.

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Amazing post Kiroquai, I have no idea how to reply to something like that, the racing sub folder has been in decline due to a number of reasons already mentioned above.

The committee are not opposed to the return of a racing folder but would like to see more active threads to sustain a folder. I would also like to see the work done recently on tagging to be given a period of time to take effect to see if useful or not.
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As Kiro confirmed, it just comes back to that natural decline and lack of current games I feel. Now that's always going to be an issue because there will be periods of time when we have only a couple of racers, but at its peak you had PGR4, Forza 3/4, F1 10/11 and Shift 2 all in play at the same time. That's a chunk of games with a lot of potential threads that went away because of the generation transition and a decline in sim racing games (although not volume of participation).


It's that genre vs. game thing again. A single game has a clear lifespan. A genre is forever but will have peaks and troughs. Sim racing is on the verge of experiencing a major revival with Forza, Dirt Rally, pCars and (supposedly) Gran Turismo 7 next year. There's other stuff we could do things with like Wreckfest too.


Only so much any one person can do of course and we lost Meerman which was admitedly a major blow to organized racing, but right now we've got McSpeed handling pCars duties (I PROMISE I will update that first post this weekend), and me, RFT and Boozy prepared to dip in with Forza 6 duties. We're trying to keep that community alive, hopefully the new toys coming will allow us to do that a bit better going forward (24 player racing in Forza 6 will hopefully allow us to expand the community too).

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Really wished Sony had released a GT6 HD remake for the PS4 on release, GT7 will take ages to arrive.

Let's go with the tags for now & if when the new games arrive we feel online is overrun with active racing threads then we can revisit the subfolder idea.

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