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Gorf King

Gorf King

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Unless Nintendo or some other company commissions research (has this been done?) it's hard to be sure of the main reason for the Switch's great sales. For some it will be that portability, the form factor and the flexibility. For others, it'll simply be the quality of some of its exclusives, which they'd have played on any format (and may have even preferred to play on one they already own). And obviously for some it'll be both. Sorry to state the obvious there, but there you go. I have no doubt that each sector contributes to the company's coffers, but there must be a significant number of people who buy the machine not because of the machine at all, but for its software - who buy it despite the fact that they really just want a home console with a full-size joypad (so also buy the pro controller on top and just leave the thing docked all day*). That's the point of the machine, after all - the games it plays. 

 

* Hi mum!

 

Edit: Of course, this means the machine has a very successful business strategy, because it appeals eventually to all these markets, but for different reasons. Even to those who don't particularly like the machine itself.

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Strangelite

Strangelite

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11 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

Unless Nintendo or some other company commissions research (has this been done?) it's hard to be sure of the main reason for the Switch's great sales. For some it will be that portability, the form factor and the flexibility. For others, it'll simply be the quality of some of its exclusives, which they'd have played on any format (and may have even preferred to play on one they already own). And obviously for some it'll be both. Sorry to state the obvious there, but there you go. I have no doubt that each sector contributes to the company's coffers, but there must be a significant number of people who buy the machine not because of the machine at all, but for its software - who buy it despite the fact that they really just want a home console with a full-size joypad (so also buy the pro controller on top and just leave the thing docked all day*). That's the point of the machine, after all - the games it plays. 

 

* Hi mum!

 

I can assure you they commission *a lot* of market research. Crazy amounts. The platform holders have entire departments dedicated to this sort of stuff, and even THEN they still pay external agencies to gain further insights. Not to mention the analytic metrics and surveys they'll be pulling off with the console (I'm pretty sure i've already answered a couple on the Switch) it's all used to create a demographic profile picture - they'll then skew the console to cater for that demographic over the years... (demographics of users change through time. Early adopters, then core, then kids as 'hand me down's when a new console arrives')

 

Appeal is really weird, the Switch has a very broad appeal, and that will create many "touch points" [ugh, spit] for consumers [ugh, spit] = so for example: Some reasons off the top of my head:

 

Nintendo's track record for quality

Portability

Price

Split screen gameplay (two kids, two little joy pads)

kiddie appeal, waggle

Nintendo software

Nintendo's 'ecosystem'

Can plug it into the TV

etc etc

 

There's many many reasons, and each customer will have their reason for purchase. There's never just a sole reason, it's usually a ground swell of reasons. (Christmas for example, is going to be massive for the Switch, it's why I bought one for my kids) - the big N's track record for quality is absolutely uncontested, and they are smashing it at the moment. Although obviously concerns for further support are definitely warranted given their track record of post-first wave first party support.

 

 

 

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Gorf King

Gorf King

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1 minute ago, Strangelite said:

I can assure you they commission *a lot* of market research. Crazy amounts. The platform holders have entire departments dedicated to this sort of stuff, and even THEN they still pay external agencies to gain further insights. Not to mention the analytic metrics and survey's they'll be pulling off with the console (I'm pretty sure i've already answered a couple on the Switch) it's all used to create a demographic profile picture - they'll then skew the console to cater for that demographic over the years... (demographics of users change through time. Early adopters, then core, then kids as 'hand me down's when a new console arrives')

 

Sure. When I said 'commissioned', I maybe should have said 'published'. It'd be interesting to see how many people put the software exclusives way higher as a purchase factor than any other aspect of the machine, where those aspects really don't appeal. My guess - and it has to be simply that - is that it's a very significant number. Of course, if Nintendo get these people on board as well as those who want a handheld, who want motion controls, etc, then it's a winning strategy. 

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Strangelite

Strangelite

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1 minute ago, Gorf King said:

 

Sure. When I said 'commissioned', I maybe should have said 'published'. It'd be interesting to see how many people put the software exclusives way higher as a purchase factor than any other aspect of the machine, where those aspects really don't appeal. My guess - and it has to be simply that - is that it's a very significant number. Of course, if Nintendo get these people on board as well as those who want a handheld, who want motion controls, etc, then it's a winning strategy. 

 

Well they'll never publish it, because they'll be giving their competitors insights into the "secret magic".

 

Traditionally the platform holders chase different gamer markets at launch, and then skew their platform one way or another to "widen their audience".  - Nintendo always target the kids, mums, and casuals first. (Before i get negged to oblivion! - this isn't a slight!) - just think about how they pick the colours of their consoles. Bright, colourful, simple, all things kids like... (and the counter, playstation and microsoft making their console "black and edgey" to appeal to teenagers and 30's) - 

 

I think the big difference with the Switch this time, is a) they've proven a new type of product can work, and b) they've got third party support from indies and devs. There's a massive "quick get it on the switch" gold rush happening in the industry right now. It won't last forever, and the owners will tire of 'indie shovelware' eventually.. but hopefully it'll give Nintendo time to find proper 1st and 2nd party support in it's games. They can't just rely on big brand ports.

 

Anyway: tldr;

Nintendo's games are awesome, they are never the problem. Their problem is always getting industry support, which they've cracked this time. It's the chicken and egg scenario all over the shop, (developers don't make games if there isn't an audience, and there won't be an audience without any games!) - first party support is always tinder in the fire, make some great games, build an audience, watch third parties flock to it.

 

Look at VR currently, and it's suffering chicken vs egg all over the place (no big games = no big audience, no big audience = no big games - spiral of death)

 

 

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Gorf King

Gorf King

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9 hours ago, Strangelite said:

I think the big difference with the Switch this time, is a) they've proven a new type of product can work, and b) they've got third party support from indies and devs. There's a massive "quick get it on the switch" gold rush happening in the industry right now. It won't last forever, and the owners will tire of 'indie shovelware' eventually.. but hopefully it'll give Nintendo time to find proper 1st and 2nd party support in it's games. They can't just rely on big brand ports.

 

Anyway: tldr;

Nintendo's games are awesome, they are never the problem. Their problem is always getting industry support, which they've cracked this time. It's the chicken and egg scenario all over the shop, (developers don't make games if there isn't an audience, and there won't be an audience without any games!) - first party support is always tinder in the fire, make some great games, build an audience, watch third parties flock to it.

 

I can't speak for others, or for the market, but for me the difference this time with Switch isn't about third party support at all - I didn't buy one with the hope of great third party support, or for any third party title. I bought one because Mario Odyssey. I guess Zelda, too, but you could play that on WiiU, like you could have played the previous two Zeldas on the preceding generation's consoles. No-one can play Odyssey unless they have a Switch, though. That's what marks it out above WiiU. It's the first proper sequel to Mario 64/Sunshine, and it's better than either of them (it'd be good enough if it were better than Sunshine, but that it actually betters 64 is outrageous).

 

Again, I'm not saying I represent any particular segment of the market, but for me that there is a system seller. And - scottcresque anecdotalism ahoy - I know at least two people who bought a Switch in the last week for the exact same reason. Third party, schmird party. This machine will be used solely for exclusives (though the third party exclusives might fall into that if they're as good as, shockingly, that Mario + Rabbids game is). Fortunately for Nintendo, having Mario in the bag makes it a must-buy for that alone. If they can get one or two others out of even close to that calibre during the machine's lifetime, it'll continue to do good business even to those who aren't enamoured of the machine itself and who will tend to buy multi-platform games on a rival system.

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Super Craig

Super Craig

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1 hour ago, rgraves said:

 

Funny that, because I played some rather splendid Splatoon 2 over the weekend - worked perfectly. No problems at all. And I gasped at the skip-rope score @Fallows had somehow manged in SMO as well.

 

It's perhaps not got enough extra features and whistles to be charging for it, but the base online play stuff is working perfectly and down hardly ever. I'd be perfectly happy for it to stay exactly as it is to be honest.

 

Very defensive there. I didn't say that it was broken or anything like that.

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rgraves

rgraves

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7 minutes ago, Super Craig said:

 

Very defensive there. I didn't say that it was broken or anything like that.

 

You said it was "nowhere near good enough" to be charging for it. My take is, it's letting me play Splatoon 2 and a few others online perfectly. With no problems at all. I'd happily pay a small fee (which is thankfully all they are talking about) for that to continue - I couldn't give a monkeys about voice chat etc.

 

Ideal world it would stay as it is, free and totally playable. But I'll happily pay a small fee if they introduce one - it's doing 90% of what I want/need it to do (would love cloud saves for the other 10%).

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Strangelite

Strangelite

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9 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

 

I can't speak for others, or for the market, but for me the difference this time with Switch isn't about third party support at all - I didn't buy one with the hope of great third party support, or for any third party title. I bought one because Mario Odyssey. I guess Zelda, too, but you could play that in WiiU, like you could have played the previous two Zeldas on the preceding generation's consoles. No-one can play Odyssey unless they have a Switch, though. That's what marks it out above WiiU. It's the first proper sequel to Mario 64/Sunshine, and it's better than either of them (it'd be good enough if it were better than Sunshine, but that's it actually betters 64 is outrageous).

 

Again, I'm not saying I represent any particular segment of the market, but for me that there is a system seller. And - scottcresque anecdotalism ahoy - I know at least two people who bought a Switch in the last week for the exact same reason. Third party, schmird party. This machine will be used solely for exclusives (though the third party exclusives might fall into that if they're as good as, shockingly, that Mario + Rabbids game is). Fortunately for Nintendo, having Mario in the bag makes it a must-buy for that alone. If they can get one or two others out of even close to that calibre during the machine's lifetime, it'll continue to do good business even to those who aren't enamoured of the machine itself and will tend to buy multi-platform games on a rival system.

 

 

I agree with that, Odyssey is definitely a system seller.. 

 

but it must have took them so long to perfect a game that good.. there won't be another *key* Mario game now for at least 3-4 years I'd expect, and that's a looooong time without first, second & third party support filling in the gaps... it happened with the Gamecube, the WiiU and others.  The Wii was a Wii Sports anomaly (there really wasn't a Wii market, even though there were many millions of the console out there.. people basically bought that console for one game)

 

https://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=110015

 

The fact a platform exclusive with a market cap of 7.9m has entered the charts at number 2 of the all formats, against a massive multi-platform franchise and Fifa is tell tale in itself. The switch is awesome, and staying around. If it sustains that for a couple of weeks (towards Christmas) then .. well gang busters. I've lost my point... :D

 

 

 

 

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DarhkFox

DarhkFox

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It's all well and good that the Switch is getting versions of hit games but they do need to release them at the same time as the other versions. Shall let doom and skyrim slide as the switch wasn't out at that point, but it would be great to have future games released at the same time.

 

Honestly at the minute, i think it would be a BAD move to charge for online. At least offer free online for the masses and then some kind of incentive to go premium. I think a lot of people would miss out playing online (ie kids) if this happens. Also, Nintendos online is still pretty basic compared to offers. Saying that, I'd be happy to pay £20 a year if it has some games or whatever bundled in.

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DonRumsfeld

DonRumsfeld

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Well, all the Mario 64 talk in the Odyssey thread has sold me one.  I think what they might be missing is a 2nd Party of the quality Rare was in the N64 era, someone to cover the gaps between the 1st Party stuff.

 

That being said, the chat about Odyssey and Zelda sounds like Nintendo is outputting quality they haven't in a long time and that's enough to bring me back.

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Majora

Majora

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I do wonder if momentum will slow down in 2018. They've done a great job at pacing their release schedule with big hitters but that looks like it's going to come to an end soon. Kirby looks like Kirby and will sell like Kirby always does. That Yoshi game looks cute but not exactly a smash in waiting. Pokémon will be late 2018 at the earliest, Prime 4 is probably 2019. 

 

Obviously they're going to announce more games but I definitely see next year being slower. Maybe that fabled Smash Wii U's port will finally make a showing. 

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Stanley

Stanley

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4 minutes ago, Majora said:

I do wonder if momentum will slow down in 2018. They've done a great job at pacing their release schedule with big hitters but that looks like it's going to come to an end soon. Kirby looks like Kirby and will sell like Kirby always does. That Yoshi game looks cute but not exactly a smash in waiting. Pokémon will be late 2018 at the earliest, Prime 4 is probably 2019. 

 

Obviously they're going to announce more games but I definitely see next year being slower. Maybe that fabled Smash Wii U's port will finally make a showing. 

I've had these thoughts too. Prime 4 is definitely the next 'big one' in terms of matching Zelda and Mario. 

 

The thing is, and what Nintendo have been great at recently, is new IP. I expect we'll get some announcements shortly about brand new games.

 

Other than that I think they've already gathered enough pace to see them through 2018. Provided the third party and indie support continues, they should be fine.

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mdn2

mdn2

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9 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I've had these thoughts too. Prime 4 is definitely the next 'big one' in terms of matching Zelda and Mario. 

 

The thing is, and what Nintendo have been great at recently, is new IP. I expect we'll get some announcements shortly about brand new games.

 

Other than that I think they've already gathered enough pace to see them through 2018. Provided the third party and indie support continues, they should be fine.

No, Pokemon will be the next big one.

 

I can see next year being:

1 new IP

Animal Crossing

Pokemon

Pikmin

Smash Bros

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Stanley

Stanley

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Just now, mdn2 said:

No, Pokemon will be the next big one.

 

I can see next year being:

1 new IP

Animal Crossing

Pokemon

Pikmin

Smash Bros

Yes Pokemon will be huge, of course. I always ignore it, call me a philistine, it just has no appeal for me. 

 

I'm really hoping Bethesda keep up their support. I'm holding off buying Wolfenstein II because I'd prefer it on Switch, but I'd love to see Fallout 4 too, and perhaps some of their other games.

 

I also hope Capcom step it up. Would love a Resi 7 port, and perhaps SFV. 

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the_debaser

the_debaser

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4 hours ago, Super Craig said:

Nintendo have released their financials:

 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/nintendo-2nd-quarter-results-fy3-2018-switch-7-63m-units-ltd.2459/

 

The Switch in it's first year is likely to sell more than the Wii U did across it's entire life.

 

Well deserved. It’s the most important console to own right now. 

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