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Why is it in gaming that selling millions of products is lousy?

If I was running a business that sold millions of products I'd be much more chipper.

You wouldn't if the dev costs meant you had to sell tens of millions to break even.

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Even first-party retail Nintendo titles now have to clear multiple Millions to be considered successful, hence why they don't do many updates to their niche, but much pined for old series anymore. Even on the Wii, the bar was 1 Million units to be considered profitable by Nintendo themselves (I assume at full sell-in price too, lowering the price would just raise your required unit sales volume to compensate).

I know most people claim that the economics of the business are of no interest to them/don't matter, but at least educate yourself a bit about the subject before claiming selling X number of copies is great or a game should only cost X to develop is actually a practical reality or not. It's like the unrealistically low funding requirement mind games that Kickstarter devs have to resort to as the general public would not fund them if they gave a realistic number from the start. It doesn't help the service is 100% across the line or failure.

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Things they should possibly take note:

Nintendo Land didn't light the world on fire, Wii Sports did. Pack in title will again be important, not that I'm suggesting another updated Sports title is the thing to go with.

If we get a Mario title at release, please make it a 3D one. Not just out of personal preference, but I'd wager 3D titles still create more buzz for the media, and wouldnt cause 10 year old other publisher system holders to point and laugh that with all the power of a new system Nintendo opted to make something that could be done 30 years ago. Release 2D Mario later, not so soon.

The amount of controller options has become completely silly. Whilst choice is good, compared to other systems Wii U only muddles up what a console can be, simple plug and play. Either let go of the Wiimote, or make it your primary controller again. Too many control options is bad,

YouTube is huge for marketing now, lessen the digital copyright nonsense, please? For your own sake, online can help you not wither and die, honest.

Please buy SEGA Thanks

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Nintendo's plan is to surprise, it seems:

“However, if you only expand upon existing hardware, it’s dull. In some shape or form, we’re always thinking about how we want to surprise players as well as our desire to change each person’s video gaming life.”

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I wonder what the factors behind Nintendo NOT buying Sega would be? I think most commentators would agree they seem a good fit. Nintendo still has a fair amount of cash in the piggy bank. And Sega have a ton of great IP just waiting there to be opened up, thus giving Nintendo less reliance on 3rd parties. Which, let's face it, they ain't getting back. And Nintendo are probably the only dev in the world who everyone would agree could do justice to the brands.

So why DON'T Nintendo do it?

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The Sammy side of things probably wouldn't give it up cheap, that side of things is a healthy business after all. Other then that, buying competition (past or present) doesn't seem to be a very Japanese thing to do it seems. Anyone would just as much benefit from Taito's IPs yet they're still somehow going. Konami have a wealth of stuff they don't use any more, so on and so forth.

I figure it must be a form of respect over there to let others stuff be, you didn't make it.

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I think that Sega's IPs, in general, are overvalued by mostly grey-haired fans. Many of their beloved games also seemed to have a knack for becoming instant 'cult favourites'. Their legendary arsenal of classic IP was grossly underutilised and mismanaged even at the height of their powers, and the concept of arcade style gaming seems to lose relevance with every passing year - it's purely a nostalgia trip for old cunts like me.

I mean I'd love Nintendo to buy what's left of the gaming side of the business outright, draw up a list of games/IP they perhaps once grudgingly admired, pour resources into newly formed 2nd party teams with explicit aim to resurrect and harness the magic of Sega's glory days but that's just total x-treme pipedream overload.

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Even first-party retail Nintendo titles now have to clear multiple Millions to be considered successful, hence why they don't do many updates to their niche, but much pined for old series anymore. Even on the Wii, the bar was 1 Million units to be considered profitable by Nintendo themselves (I assume at full sell-in price too, lowering the price would just raise your required unit sales volume to compensate).

I know most people claim that the economics of the business are of no interest to them/don't matter, but at least educate yourself a bit about the subject before claiming selling X number of copies is great or a game should only cost X to develop is actually a practical reality or not. It's like the unrealistically low funding requirement mind games that Kickstarter devs have to resort to as the general public would not fund them if they gave a realistic number from the start. It doesn't help the service is 100% across the line or failure.

Why would it go from millions to multi millions to be a success?

Apart from small increase in inflation, they've not increased their overheads. The number of staff is pretty much identical to during the Wii era.

Plus, they're selling a lot more through digital, increasing their margin by removing the middle man.

If anything, their business model is now built around selling fewer copies but getting either an increase in margin(digital sales) or upselling (DLC, Amiibos).

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo go digital only for the Nx. Certainly looks like it's structuring itself around that.

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It's funny to say arcade style gaming dead when the majority of free to play relies on score competition and the 'one more go' factor.

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I think spanky debrest is dead righ there, if Nintendo wanted to buy Sega, they'd have done so ages ago, and Sega couldn't launch something like Super Monkey Ball today at retail, because people would be confused why it doesn't have an epic story-based campaign that's about throwing money at the screen.

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Can't tell if that's a dig at the majority of big publisher titles being handholding, linear pieces of shit or not.

Hopefully is. Oh, and F2P.

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The Sammy side of things probably wouldn't give it up cheap, that side of things is a healthy business after all. Other then that, buying competition (past or present) doesn't seem to be a very Japanese thing to do it seems. Anyone would just as much benefit from Taito's IPs yet they're still somehow going. Konami have a wealth of stuff they don't use any more, so on and so forth.

I figure it must be a form of respect over there to let others stuff be, you didn't make it.

I think they don't see the apparent massive value in the IP, simple as. Taito got swallowed by Square-Enix many years ago (their massive back catalogue is not being exploited to any great degree), Konami swallowed up Hudson Soft (ditto) and have now basically closed them down. Marvelous has just completed a deal to buy a mobile gaming company and got hold of Data East's back catalogue, which has been stuck in the drawer ever since they went bankrupt back in 2003.

Why would it go from millions to multi millions to be a success?

It's a direct quote from Iwata from an investor meeting, if what you say was true, they'd be pumping out as many titles at retail as they were during the Wii era, they clearly aren't. Nintendo are just one generation behind everyone else in the spiralling cost arms race.

Plus, they're selling a lot more through digital, increasing their margin by removing the middle man.

If anything, their business model is now built around selling fewer copies but getting either an increase in margin(digital sales) or upselling (DLC, Amiibos).

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo go digital only for the Nx. Certainly looks like it's structuring itself around that.

You've basically described the MO of every single surviving publisher, except without the selling fewer copies bit. If their next console is digital only, I'll eat a plate full of fedoras, they love retail, and not even Microsoft could force that through.

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I think they don't see the apparent massive value in the IP, simple as. Taito got swallowed by Square-Enix many years ago (their massive back catalogue is not being exploited to any great degree), Konami swallowed up Hudson Soft (ditto) and have now basically closed them down. Marvelous has just completed a deal to buy a mobile gaming company and got hold of Data East's back catalogue, which has been stuck in the drawer ever since they went bankrupt back in 2003.

It's a direct quote from Iwata from an investor meeting, if what you say was true, they'd be pumping out as many titles at retail as they were during the Wii era, they clearly aren't. Nintendo are just one generation behind everyone else in the spiralling cost arms race.

You've basically described the MO of every single surviving publisher, except without the selling fewer copies bit. If their next console is digital only, I'll eat a plate full of fedoras, they love retail, and not even Microsoft could force that through.

That companies are not exploiting IP doesn't mean it has limited value - companies can do stupid things. And companies in general do mergers badly.

I also dont think it is as clear cut as saying Nintendo don't do anything with their more obscure IPs. Captain Toad or Splatoon or even X seems like much more of a gamble. If the creative teams wanted to do one I reckon it'd get done.

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I was going to ask if you purposely scour YouTube for shit videos, but I don't suppose it requires much effort.

Revelation: Every video I share that's meant to be 'humor' genuinely amuses me beforehand. I look forward to the next Ranting Robots review.

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Nintendo buying Sega for the IPs? Nintendo have the strongest IPs anyway.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_video_game_franchises

Most of the suitable (i.e. marketable) IPs already have appeared on Nintendo consoles.

Someone mentioned the Wii U being underpowered. If it can run Mario Kart 8, it's not. I like the Wii U as it unobtrusive - the Xbox One is huge - it's almost as big as my amp - it has genuinely superb, finished games with contents out of the box. It's a pick up and play console. If Nintendo keep that for their next console (whatever it is), I'll be happy.

I agree with Neg though (not about those fucking robots), it has way too many controller options.

Imagine a device you can play on TV, turn off and put in your bag and carry on to the bus and continue playing with all the functionality you get at home. Surely that's next.

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Pretty much none of Sega's vintage IPs have appeared on Nintendo consoles in re-developed form, rather than barely-more-than-a-port form.

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It's a direct quote from Iwata from an investor meeting, if what you say was true, they'd be pumping out as many titles at retail as they were during the Wii era, they clearly aren't. Nintendo are just one generation behind everyone else in the spiralling cost arms race.

A quick and dirty Wikipedia look shows that Nintendo have released or published roughly the same amount of titles on the Wii U as they had on the Wii in the same time frame - about 35. I don't know why you feel the need to differentiate between retail and digital.

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I know we've gone over this a trillion times already, but I really have difficulty trying to figure out how people can get so confused over the controller options.

It has the Gamepad (packed with the console), and the optional pro controller. Besides those two it's backwards compatible with Wii remotes and whatever attaches to them, naturally, as the console is backwards compatible with Wii software.

Oh no! My brain hurts! :mellow:

Maybe they should just save everyone the hassle and fuck backwards compatibility off for the next machine.

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Do any WiiU games even need the Wii Remotes? I figure that some must support them as extra controllers the way the Wii supported classic controllers, pro controllers and GC pads but they aren't mandatory for anything, right?

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Do any WiiU games even need the Wii Remotes? I figure that some must support them as extra controllers the way the Wii supported classic controllers, pro controllers and GC pads but they aren't mandatory for anything, right?

They are for much of Nintendoland, yes.

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A quick and dirty Wikipedia look shows that Nintendo have released or published roughly the same amount of titles on the Wii U as they had on the Wii in the same time frame - about 35. I don't know why you feel the need to differentiate between retail and digital.

Oh give over, you know that digital involves less resources than retail and mushashi is correct here regarding how many sales they need for profitability. The big increase in budgets from PS2/Wii to PS3/Wii U is a widely known fact at this point, you can't pretend it didn't exist.

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Oh give over, you know that digital involves less resources than retail and mushashi is correct here regarding how many sales they need for profitability. The big increase in budgets from PS2/Wii to PS3/Wii U is a widely known fact at this point, you can't pretend it didn't exist.

Not really. Are you telling me that the cost of making something like Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess are way below the costs of making something like Mario Kart 8, Splatoon or Super Mario 3D World or even Captain Toad? I'm not sure there is. Also, the fact that Nintendo release smaller stuff digitally this time around will be mitigating those expenses as well. I'm not sure that Nintendo's costs for making stuff is much different this time around. Unless you have figures that state otherwise and are not just surmising all this.. If you do, then let me know.

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This is the precise quote in question, anybody who looked at it objectively would see the trend in the situation facing all purveyors of fullpriced premium software which has been happening for a very long time now. If even the fucking head of Nintendo can publicly tell his shareholders it is a fact, why would anybody reasonably disagree with the assessment?

It is true that it is becoming increasingly challenging to meet the expectations of consumers who are willing to pay $50-$60 for a game, and it is difficult to break even unless a huge number of units is sold all over the world, so it cannot be denied that software development is becoming more challenging. Among such packaged software, however, the sales of popular games are much larger than in the past. Therefore, if we create more hit games, the software development business can still be very profitable. All games break even if they sell millions of copies worldwide, so we will continue to do our best to develop games which have high sales potential.

He also mentioned this little nugget about how console game development has changed since he first started, good luck charging much for a game made in 3 months by 2 people these days, or even getting a load of people to buy it anyway, when they have so many other alternative choices.

As I mentioned just before, the development challenges for home console games selling for around $50-$60 have increased significantly. Around the time when I first wrote a program for a home console game 30 years ago, two developers, including me, completed it in only three months. Things have changed dramatically since then
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Jesus Christ APM, we literally just went through the drought caused by Nintendo finally catching up to every other developer circa 2007 in realising that HD development was an order of magnitude more complex and expensive last year. This is flat-earth fact-denial at this point.

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