Nintendo Switch

[gone fishin]

13 hours ago, BruceBruce said:

 

Except for the trigger buttons...... this was the elegant solution.  How is flipping a joycon upside down difficult?

 

Flip it sideways and it becomes a classic type mini controller, flip it upside down and it becomes a wii remote.

 

Seems like that's what they've planned.

Dude, there's no way the right joy con has been designed as a Wiimote replacement when turned upside down. Take a look at this hastily put together comparison image I've done.

 

Not only would it be incredibly uncomfortable to use for a long period of time (say what you want about waggle, the Wiimote was nice and comfortable when using it as a pointer, especially with the main action button - B - being like a trigger) - Imagine if they released Metroid Prime Trilogy and you had to use the joycon upside down to play it? Nightmare!!

 

There might be just enough buttons (7 buttons on the Wiimote + D pad, 6 on the joy con, plus the stick acting as a D pad and clicking the stick gives an extra button) but again that would be a nightmare playing a game on VC. "Press 1 to activate map" - what's plus mean again? Oh, yeah it's X). 

 

Then you've got the actual IR camera itself, which looks like it's designed to pick up object shapes - not the two lights from a Wii sensor bar. And there were rumours about a Sensor bar in the switch, but nothing has been said from Nintendo so I would doubt it actually has it in.

 

Now it could be possible Nintendo have made the motion sensor so good in the joy con that you don't need the IR or sensor bar (that Ninja game in Nintendoland had you controlling an on-screen pointer, but there was no sensor bar, but it didn't seem like an accurate replacement for the Wiimote pointer).

 

 

[DC Lemon]

The choice between grey and neon has been a tough one. I'm sure we've all fought with ourselves over it. In the end, I've decided to go grey and buy neon straps to add a splash of colour to my Joy-cons.

 

[MikeBeaver]

1 hour ago, Paulando said:

I'd rather they patched regular controls into Wii games where possible, so they can be played in handheld mode. DKCR had an unofficial Classic Controller patch iirc.

 

DKCR had you play with the remote on it's side, so apart from having to use the analogue to move DK The buttons and shake mechanic would still actually work, and if not, well, they can port the superior 3DS version instead, it was a great game, although I am not sure I want to finish it a third time, although that would be preferable to Tropical Freeze which was a nightmare

[Steven]

32 minutes ago, DC07 said:

The choice between grey and neon has been a tough one. I'm sure we've all fought with ourselves over it. In the end, I've decided to go grey and buy neon straps to add a splash of colour to my Joy-cons.

 

Thought those came with the controllers - cheeky fuckers squeezing an extra fiver for each of them.

[revlob]

7 minutes ago, Steven said:

Thought those came with the controllers - cheeky fuckers squeezing an extra fiver for each of them.

 

You get two dark grey straps in the box with the Switch, regardless of which colour joycons you get.

 

[MojoChin]

37 minutes ago, moora said:

There might be just enough buttons (7 buttons on the Wiimote + D pad, 6 on the joy con, plus the stick acting as a D pad and clicking the stick gives an extra button) but again that would be a nightmare playing a game on VC. "Press 1 to activate map" - what's plus mean again? Oh, yeah it's X). 

Don't forget the Z button.

[daifuco]

I think neon gives you more choices of expansion. You can buy either a set of greys, a single blue or a single red.

[Strafe]

Reminds me of when everyone was theorising that Mario Sunshine would come with 3D glasses.

[robotattack]

14 minutes ago, Strafe said:

Reminds me of when everyone was theorising that Mario Sunshine would come with 3D glasses.

 

 

Something about the Switch reminded me of that recently, although I can't remember what it was now. I seem to recall it being theorised because of there being anomalies (ghosting?) in the screenshots and it then coming to nothing.

 

Funny thing is, the Gamecube was built with 3D functionality in mind, so it wasn't as far-fetched as it seemed at the time. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/gamecube-almost-had-3d-functionality/1100-6286296/

[BruceBruce]

5 hours ago, moora said:

Dude, there's no way the right joy con has been designed as a Wiimote replacement when turned upside down. Take a look at this hastily put together comparison image I've done.

 

Not only would it be incredibly uncomfortable to use for a long period of time (say what you want about waggle, the Wiimote was nice and comfortable when using it as a pointer, especially with the main action button - B - being like a trigger) - Imagine if they released Metroid Prime Trilogy and you had to use the joycon upside down to play it? Nightmare!!

 

There might be just enough buttons (7 buttons on the Wiimote + D pad, 6 on the joy con, plus the stick acting as a D pad and clicking the stick gives an extra button) but again that would be a nightmare playing a game on VC. "Press 1 to activate map" - what's plus mean again? Oh, yeah it's X). 

 

Then you've got the actual IR camera itself, which looks like it's designed to pick up object shapes - not the two lights from a Wii sensor bar. And there were rumours about a Sensor bar in the switch, but nothing has been said from Nintendo so I would doubt it actually has it in.

 

Now it could be possible Nintendo have made the motion sensor so good in the joy con that you don't need the IR or sensor bar (that Ninja game in Nintendoland had you controlling an on-screen pointer, but there was no sensor bar, but it didn't seem like an accurate replacement for the Wiimote pointer).

 

 

 

You've forgotten about the left joycon being used as a nunchuck.

 

The d-pad would be on the left joycon instead.  The + and - buttons are still there.  1, 2, A & B are now A, B, X, Y.

 

For games that only utilize the wiimote by itself, the minus could be one of the other unused buttons, since it's rarely accessed. You also have to remember that the analog can click now, essentially making it its own button.  Not to mention that some games hold the wii remote sideways, and the joycon has ZL + ZR buttons which could be used in those instances.

 

So it is entirely possible that Nintendo implemented it to act as a wii remote so that they no longer had to sell those accessories, since they want to forget entirely about the Wii and Wii U, and move on to something new, as to not confuse their consumers again.  They probably did this in the event that Wii games might eventually come to eshop, as well as to open up new gameplay mechanics (that no one will ever use but nintendo themselves) in newer titles.

 

Then perhaps they'd release a new accessory that the joycon attaches into, creating a more stable grip and base to resemble a wii remote, but instead they'd call it a Switch or Joycon remote.  It's also possible that they could relay the trigger input on the back to be more easily accessed when using this attachment.  The joycons can send and receive power through the side, meaning the attachment could have new buttons.  Or at least relayed buttons.

 

They have said that there are more accessories planned.. and so far everything about the Switch uses technology resembling previous console iterations they've released.

 

This is most definitely going to be the Switch version of a wii remote.

[JPickford]

Naah

[Strafe]

"Hey, we're three weeks out and haven't even confirmed the virtual console yet. Do you think we should tell everyone that the Switch has built in Wii functionality from the off, using a hobbled version of holding the joy cons at weird angles to make it half work?"

- Not Nintendo, today.

[BruceBruce]

Hobbled and weird? Well they already let you play with the joycons sideways.. why not upside down?

 

It's totally gonna happen, because Nintendo themselves are weird.

[the_debaser]

Couldn't the right joycon just work as a pointer if you held it the correct way round, with the ir pointer towards you, and then with some nifty code it'll use the internal gyroscope in conjunction with an inverted ir video stream of your clothing or whatever the camera is pointed towards. I reckon you could. Both working in conjunction. Assuming the ir camera isn't utter shit. 

 

No need for this new wiimote bollocks.

 

And I don't want another wiimote, I've already half a dozen of them. One of the problems with the wiiu was there were 57 different control methods for each game. Switch is simple. Let's keep it that way. 

[hub2]

Makes you wonder about the exact purpose, and gaming potential of the IR sensor though.

 

They must have something in mind if it's not for Wii remote emulation.

 

Could it be related to their quality of life initiative? Does an IR sensor have any practical use there?

[the_debaser]

Well the switch adverts for the joycons say that they can sense movement and motion in front of it. That surely means it can be used as a pointer, it's just the IR won't need to be pointing at the telly, just away from it. 

[Strafe]

The eating game on 1,2 Switch

[BruceBruce]

11 minutes ago, the_debaser said:

Well the switch adverts for the joycons say that they can sense movement and motion in front of it. That surely means it can be used as a pointer, it's just the IR won't need to be pointing at the telly, just away from it. 

 

But that doesn't negate the ability to point at the television.  It's still an IR pointer.  Meaning Wii emulation is feasible.

[the_debaser]

That was my point about the pointer, you can point the joycon at the telly without needing to point the ir bit at the telly but it'll still be a pointer, i.e. you can hold the joycon normally. It just figures out where you are pointing by looking the other way. So yes, wii emulation will be possible.

 

And it'll be even better than a wiimote as it won't need to be constantly calibrated.

 

Bravo Nintendo. Bravo.

[BruceBruce]

10 minutes ago, the_debaser said:

That was my point about the pointer, you can point the joycon at the telly without needing to point the ir bit at the telly but it'll still be a pointer, i.e. you can hold the joycon normally. It just figures out where you are pointing by looking the other way. So yes, wii emulation will be possible.

 

And it'll be even better than a wiimote as it won't need to be constantly calibrated.

 

Bravo Nintendo. Bravo.

 

Oh I get what you're saying.  The IR camera might be advanced enough to where it doesn't require a sensor bar?  Would be interesting.

 

You'd think it would need some point of reference though to confirm that the center of the screen is actually the center... This is why I was thinking the top of the Switch tablet's screen contained IR leds on either side.

 

Instead of having to center it perhaps you simply input where the Switch is, in accordance to your TV. Left, right, center, etc.  And the IR camera compensates.

 

Or maybe the IR Camera recognizes the shape of the Switch (in docked or portable mode) from a set distance, and can use it to calibrate positioning, without the need for IR in the Switch itself.

[gone fishin]

2 minutes ago, the_debaser said:

That was my point about the pointer, you can point the joycon at the telly without needing to point the ir bit at the telly but it'll still be a pointer, i.e. you can hold the joycon normally. It just figures out where you are pointing by looking the other way. So yes, wii emulation will be possible.

 

And it'll be even better than a wiimote as it won't need to be constantly calibrated.

 

Bravo Nintendo. Bravo.

It's a camera that picks out basic shapes  - I seriously doubt it's going to give pointer level accuracy, unless you have to be naked and uses your knob for calibration.

[Alex W.]

If Nintendo just wanted a thing that could tell the controller where it's pointing in space without having access to a fixed reference point they could just use the damn motion sensors.

[the_debaser]

I think Nintendo pretty much tested this idea out when designing the new 3ds with its improved 3d effect. The camera knows where your head is and adjusts the 3d display accordingly so you don't lose the 3d effect. So like this controller will be looking at something (your knob apparently) and the gyro will pick up movement and the IR camera will also be like I got this, let me just take another image and see how much the joycon has just moved in this 3d space,  and then the switch compares the last two IR images, interpolates them and overlays the gyro movement. But this happens a hundred times a second. The pointer will be fucking perfect, man. 

[BruceBruce]

1 minute ago, Alex W. said:

If Nintendo just wanted a thing that could tell the controller where it's pointing in space without having access to a fixed reference point they could just use the damn motion sensors.

 

Doesn't help you calibrate screen centering though.. you need a point of reference.

[Alex W.]

Just now, BruceBruce said:

 

Doesn't help you calibrate screen centering though.. you need a point of reference.

 

Which you don't have if you're pointing the IR remote backwards at yourself or whatever madness people are now coming up with.

[BruceBruce]

Which is why you don't point it at yourself when using it as a TV pointer...  wait.. wait..

 

HOLY SHIT!

 

You're the calibration?  Maybe it detects your body positioning using the camera, and can tell how off-center you are.  So you DON'T have to point it at the screen for you to use a TV pointer.

 

Then it reverses the input, allowing you to easily move a "cursor" on screen.  Could that even work?  Would explain perfectly why it's on the bottom, and detects shapes.  And it wouldn't require you to flip the joycon upside down..

[the_debaser]

Sorry Alex, we are ideas men in this thread. We're not living in 2006 anymore with ugly as shit sensor bars around the telly.

[the_debaser]

4 minutes ago, BruceBruce said:

Which is why you don't point it at yourself when using it as a TV pointer...  wait.. wait..

 

HOLY SHIT!

 

You're the calibration?  Maybe it detects your body positioning using the camera, and can tell how off-center you are.  So you DON'T have to point it at the screen for you to use a TV pointer.

 

Then it reverses the input, allowing you to easily move a "cursor" on screen.

 

Mate I was there 20 minutes ago. 

[BruceBruce]

Holy fuck, why didn't I think of this days ago.  The IR hits you, detects where in space it is pointing based on the shape (possibly wrist rotation or arm angle? Distance between the wrist  and its angle could tell left and right perfectly), reverses it to relay a pointer to the screen, since you're obviously facing the screen.  Would work well at a wide variety of angles except directly sideways.  And typically you sit in front of the TV anyway when using the remotes.. so this would work.

 

What the shit, that's awesome!

[the_debaser]

I don't think Alex is with us though. Trying to crush our dreams.