Nintendo Switch

[moosegrinder]

EDIT: fuck it, I'm not getting into it.

[scottcr]

I bought into the 60 quid - well, it was 50 after discount as both my kids are massive animal crossing fans and want the expansion.

 

starfox is great btw

[Protocol Penguin]

Uncritically accepting bad emulation for sixty quid seems to be the new uncritically accepting bad 50Hz versions of games.

[merrychan]

I had about a month left on my normal family plan so I had a discount when I switched over to the new Expansion Pack one, 50 something. I absolutely love the MD titles and having them handheld so I can save scum my way through them is the absolute best, the same will happen with Sin & Punishment and Starfox 64

[Stanley]

5 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

Uncritically accepting bad emulation for sixty quid seems to be the new uncritically accepting bad 50Hz versions of games.

Likewise dismissing it outright because it’s not perfect is also a predilection to the current cultural norm. 

[Rex Grossman]

21 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

EDIT: fuck it, I'm not getting into it.

 

OK, now I'm curious.

[Rex Grossman]

8 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

Uncritically accepting bad emulation for sixty quid seems to be the new uncritically accepting bad 50Hz versions of games.

 

£60 for N64 emulation is only correct if you would never have bought the online sub or would never have bought the new AC DLC.

I doubt many people are getting the £60 subscription purely for N64 games.

[Kevvy Metal]

9 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

Uncritically accepting bad emulation for sixty quid seems to be the new uncritically accepting bad 50Hz versions of games.

 

Emulation that's not quite accurate I'd take any day of the week over PAL 50 Hz of anything. 

[Stanley]

1 minute ago, Rex Grossman said:

 

£60 for N64 emulation is only correct if you would never have bought the online sub or would never have bought the new AC DLC.

I doubt many people are getting the £60 subscription purely for N64 games.

This is where they know what they’re doing - all the kids want Animal Crossing and all the parents want the N64 games, lots of expansion packs sold. 

[CheekyLee]

It's £34.99. That gets you 4 curated collections, cloud saves, online play, Tetris 99, Pacman 99, and the Animal Crossing DLC. And that's just today, we already know that there will be more N64 games added. Is it value-for-money? You decide. But is it £60 for N64 emulation? No, stop saying it is.

[Unofficial Who]

17 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

 

£60 for N64 emulation is only correct if you would never have bought the online sub or would never have bought the new AC DLC.

I doubt many people are getting the £60 subscription purely for N64 games.

 

I did as a replacement for my flood affected N64 and games.

 

I'm pretty disappointed by this.

 

 

The shot on the left, yeah it's blurry but atmospheric. The right? It looks like Link is going to go for a piss at the toilet block in the  local caravan park.

 

Nintendo needs to sort this. As a freebie I'd shrug my shoulders. As a "reward" for doubling the money I'm paying to them per year? Not on.

[scottcr]

3 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I did as a replacement for my flood affected N64 and games.

 

I'm pretty disappointed by this.

 

 

The shot on the left, yeah it's blurry but atmospheric. The right? It looks like Link is going to go for a piss at the toilet block in the  local caravan park.

 

Nintendo needs to sort this. As a freebie I'd shrug my shoulders. As a "reward" for doubling the money I'm paying to them per year? Not on.

 

there's other bits where the fog looks fine - is this just a bug?  

[Unofficial Who]

5 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

there's other bits where the fog looks fine - is this just a bug?  

 

 

Not sure, I might hold off until the next update before playing. I did play some Mario Kart 64 (yes it's trash but I love it) and I didn't detect this lag people are on about. (Docked.)

[Strafe]

Nintendo have started the repair on my grey joycons from launch. No charge 😎

[Stanley]

I wish the pad would come back in stock, can you get it anywhere else or is it purely Nintendo’s own site? 

[Stanley]

7 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

 

Not sure, I might hold off until the next update before playing. I did play some Mario Kart 64 (yes it's trash but I love it) and I didn't detect this lag people are on about. (Docked.)

Lag is apparently about 130ms according to Nintendolife, not sure how good/bad that is. 

[CheekyLee]

"Input lag" exists on every controller for every system, even your mouse+keyboard on your PC. This is just an inescapable consequence of those bloody annoying laws of physics that govern the universe we live in.

 

I have no idea what anybody else considers acceptable, normal, or horrendous. What I do know is that feels like I'm playing videogames on a console. 130 ms is ... what, 6-7 frames? If you're routinely reacting faster than that to on-screen prompts, then you'll most likely notice and care. Meanwhile, we mere humans will continue to just not see any problem.

[Strafe]

26 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I wish the pad would come back in stock, can you get it anywhere else or is it purely Nintendo’s own site? 

 

You can buy it on eBay for circa £100 looking at sold prices!

[Strafe]

26 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Lag is apparently about 130ms according to Nintendolife, not sure how good/bad that is. 

 

On a jank game like mario kart 64 you wouldn't care. On, say, Overwatch competitive you'd get slaughtered.

[dataDave]

30 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Lag is apparently about 130ms according to Nintendolife, not sure how good/bad that is. 

 

130ms is abysmal. A 6-7 frame delay is huge.

 

That's unplayable for me. Even with something like MK64. Every track would feel like a slippery ice/winter one.

 

F-Zero X with those levels of lag is going to be horrendous.

[Protocol Penguin]

1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Emulation that's not quite accurate I'd take any day of the week over PAL 50 Hz of anything. 

Well, of course, but we really shouldn’t need to suffer from either these days. IMO.

 

(Yes, I remember the bad old days of 50Hz versions of games being the default on the Wii and Wii U virtual consoles.)

 

The Nintendo 64 was such a groundbreaking console (in a way many don’t recognise these days, even), so it’d be preferable if Nintendo curated their own history in a competent manner.

[Stanley]

4 minutes ago, Fallows said:

 

130ms is abysmal. A 6-7 frame delay is huge.

 

That's unplayable for me. Even with something like MK64. Every track would feel like a slippery ice/winter one.

 

F-Zero X with those levels of lag is going to be horrendous.

No doubt F-Zero X will be halved as its 60fps and MK64 is 30fps, but I could be talking out of my arse.

 

What was the lag like on an actual N64?

 

Personally I think it’s fine, certainly not something I notice. 

[dataDave]

19 minutes ago, Stanley said:

No doubt F-Zero X will be halved as its 60fps and MK64 is 30fps, but I could be talking out of my arse.

 

What was the lag like on an actual N64?

 

Personally I think it’s fine, certainly not something I notice. 

 

130ms is always going to be 13% of a second. Even at a locked 240FPS. So, F-Zero will have twice as many frames skipped as a game running at 30FPS.

 

The actual N64 on a TV with a wired controller has practically zero lag.

An emulated game (software emu adds 1-2 frames) on an LCD (display latency ahoy, 2 frames minimum) being controlled wirelessly over Bluetooth (130ms??? lol 6-7 frames). It all adds up.

 

If you played any of these games at great length back in the day you might notice something slightly off. They certainly aren't going to be anywhere near as responsive as original hardware. If both are sample side-by-side it'd be massively obvious to most.

 

I'm lucky to have a small 14" PVM with a MiSTer and a few old consoles, so I don't need to get excited about ROMs or Virtual Consoles or other forms of software emulation. But when I try these offerings out I'm always left disappointed. Even if I didn't have my retro setup I don't think I'd bother (which I didn't when I went overseas for six years).

 

I really don't know why Nintendo started wireless with the GameCube's Wavebird (which was 2.4GHz), but then went Bluetooth after that. Probably because it's cheaper to mass produce and keep console costs down? The Wavebird was optional, after all.

 

 

[scottcr]

Is there a way to make the borders just pure black?

[Stanley]

I played them all back in the day, but obviously that was a while ago now, honestly they feel ok to me, and I’m someone who notices it on streaming games, for example. 
 

You said the original N64 would have zero latency, until you throw in controller and display latency, I thought those were the things being measured to determine lag? 

[Stanley]

Just now, scottcr said:

Is there a way to make the borders just pure black?

I don’t think so, the lack of display options is disappointing. 

[Paulando]

2 hours ago, deKay said:

It’s not £60 a year. £60 a year is how much the entire service is for up to 8 people, so at the most it’s £30 per person that way. (Or £35 individually)

 

And even then it’s not £30 a year, as you’re not just getting N64 games for that money.

 

And even if you were, it’s still not £30 if you shop around for cheap credit to pay for it.

And even then, if you were going to pay for the barebones service anyway, it’s like an extra £17 a year individually.

 

That’s not bad at all really, especially when you consider we’ll be getting a bunch more games and hopefully some more platforms (GBA next pls). Wish I could have paid that when I had a Wii/Wii U instead of buying them for 9 quid each, with them being lost to time (my loft) once again.

[dataDave]

18 minutes ago, Stanley said:

You said the original N64 would have zero latency, until you throw in controller and display latency, I thought those were the things being measured to determine lag? 

 

If you're playing with real hardware and a wired controller on a CRT there's practically zero lag. It's a tiny fraction of one ms.

 

Software emulation (done right = 1ms, done the Nintendo way = 3ms and up!)

LCD Display tech (a good TV with a nice Game Mode will give 1ms)

Controller comms. tech (Bluetooth is generally laggy, but still acceptable (DS4 is great) with Nintendo being the absolute worst at this.

 

So you get three variable servings of latency playing old games on new tech. I think it's a sullying of their old work - they should either port all of these games properly or just not fucking bother. They play miles better on the real thing (or FPGA). Response. It's all about response. Outside of competitive PC gaming the rest of the industry seems to have forgotten that great response makes a great game. This is why I mostly play retro stuff - because it's snappy AF.

 

I always get into rants about this. My PC gamer friend used to say I was overblowing things until I let him compare SMK on the Wii VC downstairs and on an actual SFC up here. He said it was like playing a totally different game, and that he actively wanted to play more of it on the real hardware.

[Stanley]

2 minutes ago, Fallows said:

 

If you're playing with real hardware and a wired controller on a CRT there's practically zero lag. It's a tiny fraction of one ms.

 

Software emulation (done right = 1ms, done the Nintendo way = 3ms and up!)

LCD Display tech (a good TV with a nice Game Mode will give 1ms)

Controller comms. tech (Bluetooth is generally laggy, but still acceptable (DS4 is great) with Nintendo being the absolute worst at this.

 

So you get three variable servings of latency playing old games on new tech. I think it's a sullying of their old work - they should either port all of these games properly or just not fucking bother. They play miles better on the real thing (or FPGA). Response. It's all about response. Outside of competitive PC gaming the rest of the industry seems to have forgotten that great response makes a great game. This is why I mostly play retro stuff - because it's snappy AF.

 

I always get into rants about this. My PC gamer friend used to say I was overblowing things until I let him compare SMK on the Wii VC downstairs and on an actual SFC up here. he said it was like playing a totally different game, and that he actively wanted to play more of it on the real hardware.

Hopefully they will work on it but this being Nintendo I doubt it, which is a shame because when you see what they are capable of in games like Metroid Dread or even the Skyward Sword remaster, they’re clearly very capable. 

[dataDave]

9 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Hopefully they will work on it but this being Nintendo I doubt it, which is a shame because when you see what they are capable of in games like Metroid Dread or even the Skyward Sword remaster, they’re clearly very capable. 

 

There's clearly a market for them to do what Sega did with a lot of their treasured back catalogue during the PS2 era. I'd quite happily pay a premium for well-executed re-releases and remakes.

 

No one should be paying for ROM dumps.