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RubberJohnny

RubberJohnny

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2 hours ago, Dudley said:

Grew by 0.3 of the existing userbase of VR or Steam?

 

Not really sure.

 

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July and August are important because they were the first months where both HTC and Oculus no longer had supply constraints. Through most of that two-month period, consumers could go online or even drive to a store to pick up one of these units instantly. The problem, however, is that no one is doing that.

 

Considering they only sold mid-to-low six figures in the first place, I don't think there's even a million devices out there yet.

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JimmytheMook

JimmytheMook

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1 hour ago, the_debaser said:

I don't think VR is dead just yet. It's just too expensive, too uncomfortable, has rubbish controls and doesn't have a killer app so no-one outside of a few early adopters are interested. 

 

It's hard to disagree with this. I have the vive, and I'm glad I ended up with a top spec PC to run it, with all the other uses I can put that machine towards. But it's quickly become the new Wii in our household, excellent to break out when we have guests, but generally it stays boxed most of the time. Don't regret having it at all, the experiences were/are fantastic, but I'd rather just chill out playing Stellaris or Dark Souls 3 at 60fps than set it up.

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Harsin

Harsin

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I'll be really interested in what PSVRs sales figures end up being. It had a lot of pre-orders but I wonder how that will translate to actual sales. I put in a pre-order, because why not, but I'm strongly considering cancelling it closer to the time and I get the impression I'm not alone. The fact that Sony will probably be selling an upgraded console I could spend my money on instead only makes that decision easier.

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KriessG

KriessG

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Did anyone expect a market that is currently £500+ PC peripherals that require graphics cards that cost nearly as much inside an expensive PC to be selling loads right now? We are in the early adopter phase. Just imagine how much cheaper and better VR tech will be in 5 years.

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Bojangle

Bojangle

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Still needs software though, and it's not going to get made if nobody is buying the hardware. It's a vicious cycle.

And yes, there were people in the respective VR threads baffled as to why more people weren't ordering a Rift/Vive, especially on a video games forum!

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RubberJohnny

RubberJohnny

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I think it's more likely that it'll just get abandoned and everyone will switch to AR games to try and get Pokemon Go's all-the-money.

 

Needing games to be uniquely developed for VR, plus really expensive hardware that limits your audience and means you can't really hit it big made really makes it a bit of a non starter for all but the smallest indies.

 

If there were even AAA devs making VR games deep in development right now (which there probably aren't because all of them were pretty cool on it), you think they're going to continue after seeing these figures? Even if everyone brought your game, it's less than break-even.

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KriessG

KriessG

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I'm pretty sure VR and AR will merge at some point, once the tech is there. That's probably a while away though.

 

Also the fact we are just focusing on games for VR is telling. It's applications in other fields that will drive the development and progression of hardware and the use of phones for the screen and to power them will only grow. It'll be a different landscape than today's tethered options.

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RubberJohnny

RubberJohnny

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24 minutes ago, KriessG said:

I'm pretty sure VR and AR will merge at some point, once the tech is there. That's probably a while away though.

 

How do you add VR to AR?

 

Look at MMOs to see what happens when the industry abandons trends, all the publishers tried to dethrone WoW for a decade, then switched to trying to dethrone LoL and now no one but Korea and tiny Kickstarter teams develops new MMOs, there are none in development. And VR doesn't even have Korea.

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Bojangle

Bojangle

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Right, but I'm posting on a video games forum, so of course I'm going to talk about the success of VR in terms of video games. VR may well be amazing for other things too, but if developers don't develop games for it because gamers don't buy into the hardware, where does that leave it?

People buying VR headsets for some other use isn't going to mean games get made for it too, the developers want gamers to buy the hardware for them to justify the cost of making a game for it. I don't particularly see how VR having uses outside of gaming comes into it. People buying VR for stuff other than games aren't going to suddenly start buying games for it. It isn't the next Wii.

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SMD

SMD

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2 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

What? VR grew like 0.3% in July and 0.1% in August, it's pretty dead. And there are a lot of dadgames.

I just mean like between this and the Sonic Mania thread it seems like you're down on games

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Cyhwuhx

Cyhwuhx

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22 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

How do you add VR to AR?

 

Look at MMOs to see what happens when the industry abandons trends, all the publishers tried to dethrone WoW for a decade, then switched to trying to dethrone LoL and now no one but Korea and tiny Kickstarter teams develops new MMOs, there are none in development.

 

This is called Mixed Reality/Merged Reality/Hybrid Reality (many groups are trying to coin/claim a name for it.)

 

Basically, Virtual Reality is a completely simulated environment. (Oculus Rift)

Augmented Reality is a single layer information overlay on reality. (Google Glass/Pokémon Go)

Mixed Reality projects a virtual environment and/or objects into reality and makes contextual interaction between both planes possible. (Microsoft HoloLens / Intel Alloy)

 

VR's easy point of entry is games. Quite simply because game developers have been building 3D worlds and putting content and intent in them for decades now. "Gamers know how to build worlds and guide interest." They are the base layer needed for VR experiences. VR itself is a vast multi-disciplinary field which (contrary to what a lot of gamers shout) still in the very early stages of experimentation. People in film and stageplay are going to be important here. Architecture as a whole is practically proto-VR. Mass adoption is still years off, but targeted solutions (entertainment, porn, training, healthcare) are already up and running and – not unimportantly – making money.

 

If you still are thinking VR is the next console accessory, you are in your own LaLaLand, plugging your ears with your fingers. ASML has been using VR for yonks to let people train on their chip production line before making them certified engineers as their machines are one-of-a-kind. F1 racers are constantly in VR or a nigh-VR simulation when not in an actual car on an actual track. Healthcare specialists have been using VR to simulate burn victims being in cold environments, allowing them to change bandages less painfully. Never mind the PTSD treatments. Porn needs no introduction nor explanation.

 

The powerful thing about PlayStation VR is that at launch it will already blast beyond the reported sales figures of HTC Vive and Oculus Rift combined. Sony has already mentioned that PSVR is only a first step and they are already looking into fields beyond a games console, possibly PC support. The thing is that PSVR is currently the cheapest full-fat VR experience you can get. All these people that stuck a Google Cardboard or Gear VR on their faces think they've experienced Virtual Reality, but they've experienced nothing yet. Words can't properly describe the joy of Google Tilt Brush, or deflecting lasers with a lightsaber in the Star Wars universe.

 

VR isn't just a toy, it's actually the first step on the road to decoupling the screen. Once that's gone, everything becomes one giant mouldable screen and you'll get a proper merger of data, reality and information, in which contextual gestures and speech provide the results you expect them to give.

 

I can honestly get a bit annoyed by a group of persons that think they know VR because they once saw a picture of the Virtual Boy on the internet, blatantly disregarding years and years of research, because they can't look beyond the games angle. Sure, there are still many pitfalls, and PSVR isn't the second coming, but it's currently the most accessible form of VR available. It's the biggest experiment yet and therefore very important.

 

VR will not flop, because it never flopped to start with. It was simply too expensive, its principles are still big bucks for whoever can exploit it fully and universities and research centres have been experimenting with them since the 90s. We are merely at the start of VR becoming affordable. The mere idea that whatever happens this year with games will make or break the VR industry is ludicrous as it will simply be the next open beta. Just like art, business and healthcare are experimenting all over the place. You know why all these 3D engines are suddenly supporting VR? Because they can smell the gigantic opportunities beyond gaming. They've been investing in rendering 3D cheaply, efficiently and realistically, and their ship is about to come in now that EA and Ubisoft aren't their only clients any more. Hell, Unity is already a few steps ahead with creating an assets marketplace.

 

I can get that people personally don't like VR, but to wave it away as a another fad makes me think of that 90s Daily Mail article about one idiotic idea called the World Wide Web. If there is a problem with VR, it's that it's as of yet culturally unacceptable to walk around with a headset (hence Mixed Reality as the ultimate end game for all of these technologies). But like the acceptance of video games, that'll just be a matter of time and life expectancies.

 

But yeah, the Nintendo NX is gonna be fun.

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RubberJohnny

RubberJohnny

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45 minutes ago, Cyhwuhx said:

VR will not flop, because it never flopped to start with. It was simply too expensive, its principles are still big bucks for whoever can exploit it fully and universities and research centres have been experimenting with them since the 90s. We are merely at the start of VR becoming affordable. The mere idea that whatever happens this year with games will make or break the VR industry is ludicrous as it will simply be the next open beta.

 

I don't even know what to say to this :huh:

 

Hey, remember when the tech press were talking up those consumer 3D printers a few years ago as the next big thing? "It's just early days, soon we'll all have fabricators in our homes!".  That was a technology that had existed since the mid-80s, prototyped by businesses and academia, now was it's time to shine, it was becoming cheap enough to be democratised! Those companies were getting IPOs and acquisitions in the hundreds of millions of dollars range. Sound familiar?

 

Those companies went bankrupt and laid off most their employees, the tech press doesn't talk about them anymore.

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KriessG

KriessG

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1 hour ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

That's just AR with lens caps.

 

It's also not a real thing and is just something you made up.

It will be quite possible in the future. We just aren't there yet.

 

I just find it funny that some people don't have the vision to see forward. Remember what mobile phone technology was 10 years ago. Now imagine what VR could be like in 10 years. To think it won't be completely self contained by then, far more portable and with the ability to both provide AR alongside VR seems odd to be. I'm not saying it'll be on the shelves next year. The real world possibilities for AR and VR mean that the tech will keep progressing though. It won't just disappear. We are edging closer and closer to far more practical and cost effective products. 

 

Anyway. I'm day one for an NX.

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scottcr

scottcr

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Call me a luddite - but I'm dreading the reaction when the first car crash happens after someone spends 5 hours playing VR racing games and then going out to drive in a regular car.  Don't the US navy themselves recommend a 24 hour cool down after heavy VR use?

 

VR tech in 10 years will only make the kind of advances of phone tech if consumers buy into it at the same level... there's definitely a future in this technology, but we'll probably look back and laugh at stuff like the OR.

 

Anyway, NX DAY ONE BITSES.

 

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