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The Batman - March 2022 - Robert Pattinson Confirmed as Batman


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I feel like I've derailed the thread a bit here. Obviously I can't criticise The Batman for not being something it never set out to be. Like I said, I do think it's a good film

 

Just to clarify though, I don't think a Batman & Robin film needs to be any more camp than Spider-Man Homecoming (which featured a young lad being mentored by an older crime fighter). It doesn't need to be an Adam West style comedy vehicle. 

I'm just a bit fed up of the very dark, dark Knight. When I was younger, Batman used to come out in the daytime and wear blue and grey. 

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One bit that I'm sure was explained but I must've missed-

 

Spoiler

When Catwoman finds that recording of her friend being strangled - where did that come from? Who was recording it and why?

 

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3 hours ago, JamesC said:

I feel like I've derailed the thread a bit here. Obviously I can't criticise The Batman for not being something it never set out to be. Like I said, I do think it's a good film

 

Just to clarify though, I don't think a Batman & Robin film needs to be any more camp than Spider-Man Homecoming (which featured a young lad being mentored by an older crime fighter). It doesn't need to be an Adam West style comedy vehicle. 

I'm just a bit fed up of the very dark, dark Knight. When I was younger, Batman used to come out in the daytime and wear blue and grey. 

I agree with this, my favourite Batman comics of all-time was Grant Morrison’s run - which while was pretty dark at times, was never afraid to lean into the more fun and even silly aspects of the character.

 

 

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This is a decent blockbuster on its merits, fine performances, script, etc, there's a lot I appreciate about it, but I can’t help but feel a little fatigued.


It feels like it’s just focus-tested and mashed together different aspects that were popular from previous Batman films with little of its own style, we’ve got the grimy Gotham of the old ones and the groundedness of the Nolan ones, etc.

 

Spoiler

To the point the villains plan is just cause Hurricane Katrina and chaos at the Superdome


I groaned when they did the reveal of the bloke in the cell at the end, which is probably not the reaction they wanted. Too much Batman IMO.

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It was pretty good. I enjoyed the cast, especially emo sadboi Pattinson and bonkers Paul Dano (I'm not sure there's any other version of Paul Dano, but he does it well) and the general vibe, but it could have lopped an hour off the runtime with no real issues. 

 

Spoiler

We very much don't need yet another Joker, but if there's any actor in the world who could get me excited for the character again, it's Keoghan. He's a proper creepy little fucker. 

 

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On 12/03/2022 at 07:29, Oracle said:
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Was that bane juice in the final action sequence to get him to recover from his likely smashed internal organs resulting from taking a double barrelled shot gun?

 

Also why can no goons shoot him in his chin?

 


 

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I thought it was a shot of adrenaline tbh but it being green and Bane juice makes more sense.  He didn’t recover but it numbed him and I guess had some sort of adrenaline like impact.


At the end

 

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The goon who says I’m vengeance was one of the mob from the start right?


I did really enjoy watching this :)   Re his suit

 

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I wouldn’t be surprised if it was more than Kevlar - some sort of metal in there?  When he flew/fell off the building he proper clunked and in many ways the direction really makes the suit seam heavy and awkward.  I’m not sure it was entirely metaphorical.  This Batman is not graceful or stealthy!

 

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On 07/03/2022 at 10:18, Hexx said:

 

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I didn't think so. It was a bit odd just to put Thomas' presumed sins on Bruce too.

Thomas sins also didn't really fit in the corruption/cover up of the Maroni bust either  - other than the renewal fund was being used by those involved. 

It didn't feel like the same link.

 

There was some comments in the film that Bruce had become recluse/shut away/rarely seen in public - see the reaction to him at the funeral - so that might be the explanation.

 

 


I think that 

Spoiler

Riddler just had it in for Bruce for experiencing being an orphan in a life of luxury, rather than what it meant to him.  Because of the sins of the father Bruce didn’t have any of that same hardship in his eyes.

 

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I was surprised how much of a mixed bag I found this. There’s a lot to like about it - Looks gorgeous, great score, good acting performances across the board, actual sexual tension in a superhero movie. 
 

But for me, it’s attempt to go so grounded pushes the underlying absurdities of Batman too close to the forefront. There are so many scenes of Batman hanging around with normal people in rooms and I know comic people might love this but to me he just frequently looks fucking absurd. It made me realise that Nolan was really clever about avoiding showing him in ways that make him look stupid, especially in The Dark Knight. 
 

Batman is also quite inept in this film, in a way that makes the notion that his existence could ever be a net positive completely ridiculous . I’ve never come away from a Batman film thinking so thoroughly that everyone really would be better off if Bruce Wayne just stuck to charity work. 
 

All this is further emphasised by the ending, which I think really does go off the rails:

 

Spoiler

The flooding as depicted would have killed thousands of people! It’s worse than anything the villains pull off in almost any of the other Batman films and seems completely out of step with the rest of the film - and cements this Batman as a complete fuck up, which I really don’t think the movie views him as.

 

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I love the absurdity. Batman just hanging out in a room of cops - love it. Nolan trying to somehow make a guy who dresses as a bat to fight crime 'grounded' - dislike it. 

Spoiler

Also I think even Bruce himself says something along the lines of even he isn't sure he has made anything better. 

 

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If… (ending spoilers)

 

Spoiler

I’ve got it right and one of the ending goons (that they unmask and he says “I’m vengeance”) was one of the face painted mob from the start, it gives him that crisis of confidence in what he is doing.  His existence, on some level, turned this guy into next level bad guy, spurred on by Riddler.  Batman is thinking that him being around might be doing more harm than good as a result.  But then the very ending showing him helping people - saving them from electrocution and leading people to safety - he gets a dose of the real helping people bit.


I don’t really see him as a fuck up though.  He got outplayed, that’s sort of the beauty of The Riddler villain.  I love that they didn’t just lock him up and he’s all done now.  The threat is still very real with him, he’s a true match to Batman (where he quite satisfyingly took the others down) and in a really creepy scary way because it’s down to how smart he is.

 

 

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Saw this on Saturday and really enjoyed it, it certainly didn't feel like a 3-hour film.

 

Spoiler

I'm one of those people who's a sucker for long slow shots of people walking that take their time (probably why I think Blade Runner 2049 is a modern masterpiece), so the ponderousness of Batman's entry at the start and other parts of the movie really worked for me.  The shot of him approaching The Penguin's car after the chase was great I thought.  I'm a self-confessed Nolan fanboy so it doesn't knock those films off their perch just yet, we'll see how the sequels go.

 

I really liked that effectively the Riddler won.  He enacted his plan almost perfectly and the only thing he didn't achieve was killing Bruce.  It's a good point made above that thousands would have been killed and that was kind of brushed over. The new Mayor got shot and then just casually strolled out through the water. Salt water in a gunshot wound would be pretty painful I would have thought.  

 

I also think the point for me is that Batman realises that he is doing more harm than good, and I think it's made pretty obvious that the city would be better off if Bruce just did charity work.  Maybe the sequel will see him spending more time pretending to be the Billionaire philanthropist as it seemed to me that Batman is the man and Bruce is the secret identity in this film.

 

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Spoiler

Isn't the "I'm vengeance" bloke at the end the same one who talks to Bruce at the funeral before Bruce is noticed by the Mayoral candidate? The way the camera lingers on the guy as Bruce walks away makes it look like you're supposed to make a note of the guy.

 

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I went to see this again last night. Worked even better for me the second time around, more tuned to its pacing, and it was satisfying to be able to take in every detail with the benefit of hindsight.

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9 minutes ago, Ry said:

I saw it a couple weeks ago so it's not fresh in my memory but

 

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Did Riddler know Bruce was batman?

 

Spoiler

I don't think so as he wants to kill Wayne and essentially views himself and Batman on the same side doesn't he?

 

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Spoiler

They play the conversation to make it initially appear to the audience (and Batman) that The Riddler knows his identity, but it becomes clear he's just talking about Bruce Wayne being the catalyst for his own trauma and revenge campaign.

 

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I watched this last night. It felt way too long and on the nose (we get it, Batman's pained, you don't need to keep playing Nirvana) but I liked how it looked and Pattinson and Kravitz were fun in it, while Dano was as good as I was expecting him to be. It did feel rather silly to me at times, not camp, but certain seems felt comical.

Overall I think it's a decent stab and I liked how much sleuthing was in the first part of the film. Not something I'd ever buy on 4K but I'm glad I saw it. Will happily watch a follow-up.

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12 hours ago, Sabreman said:
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They play the conversation to make it initially appear to the audience (and Batman) that The Riddler knows his identity, but it becomes clear he's just talking about Bruce Wayne being the catalyst for his own trauma and revenge campaign.

 

 

I found that whole bit on the identity to be ridiculous and was such a poor attempt at misdirection.

 

I didn't think the take on the Riddler was any good either- came across to me as very derivative, and over-hammy in its portrayal.

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Great film. Total surprise for me, didn't like the look of the trailers much.

 

One thing that did bother me though...

 

Spoiler

Selina put her cat in her motorbike storage box?! Proper villain stuff that.

 

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On 13/03/2022 at 12:58, Made of Ghosts said:

 

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We very much don't need yet another Joker, but if there's any actor in the world who could get me excited for the character again, it's Keoghan. He's a proper creepy little fucker. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Learning that it was him in that cameo appearance prompted me to think about the possibility of him being active in both Marvel and DC films at the same time, and how few other actors have done that.

 

Until now, whenever people have appeared in both Marvel and DC films, it's generally only been after their participation in one seemed to be over. For example: Zachary Levi and Idris Elba didn't do Shazam and The Suicide Squad until their characters had killed off in Thor Ragnarok and Infinity War. And Laurence Fishburne and J.K. Simmons came to the MCU only after Snyder's JL seemed to be dead. (The Snyder Cut throws a spanner in the neat timeline of Simmons' superhero film roles!)

 

But now, it seems like we're getting more examples of actors who've alternated between the two companies. Barry Keoghan (Eternals) and Jeffrey Wright (What If) can be added to a short list of actors that includes:

  • Taika Waititi: Ragnarok/IW/Endgame -> The Suicide Squad -> Thor: Love & Thunder
  • Florence Kasumba: Civil War -> Wonder Woman -> Black Panther

  • Sylvester Stallone/Sean Gunn/Michael Rooker: GOTG2 -> The Suicide Squad -> GOTG3

Now that I write it out, I realise that James Gunn is responsible for a good proportion of that list! :lol:

 

Plus there's a possibility that Michael Keaton might play the Vulture again, after his appearance in The Flash.

 

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On 18/03/2022 at 17:28, Nick R said:

 

 

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Plus there's a possibility that Michael Keaton might play the Vulture again, after his appearance in The Flash.

 

Spoiler

I assumed Michael Keaton will be playing the Vulture again in the upcoming Morbius.  He is certainly in the trailer & it is set in the Spideyverse even if Spidey himself is not allowed to appear, so I am not sure what other character he would be playing????

 

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4 hours ago, Waggo said:

 

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I assumed Michael Keaton will be playing the Vulture again in the upcoming Morbius.  He is certainly in the trailer & it is set in the Spideyverse even if Spidey himself is not allowed to appear, so I am not sure what other character he would be playing????

Spoiler

What I meant was that if Keaton does SM Homecoming -> Morbius -> The Flash, and then stops there, that means that he'll be one of the many actors who've only made the jump from Marvel to DC when their role in the former has finished.

 

But if he does The Flash and then has another MCU appearance as Vulture, we can count him among the short list of people who've alternated between the two companies or have been active in both at the same time.

 

^

(Keeping this spoiler tagged not because it's a spoiler for The Batman, but because there might be some people who are staying super-cautious about casting information for upcoming MCU/DCEU films. Even this one, which has been publicised all over the place!)

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That deleted scene really didn’t work for me, I’m glad they cut it. 
 

Spoiler

It’s 5 mins of Keoghan speaking in riddles and making no sense, and then cackling at the end like a maniac to say “hey look at me I’m the Joker”.

 

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It’s a weird one.  I don’t think the scene would have fit in the movie, and it feels almost directly like a scene from Manhunter (and a great scene from it too, which it doesn’t match up too).  The performance is a bit…well, I’ll spoiler the rest.  But I think it’s interesting too.

 

Spoiler

It’s basically the scene in manhunter where Will Graham goes to see Hannibal Lector for advice on the killer he’s chasing.  Even down to Lector/Joker connecting a similarity between Graham/Batman that they’re uncomfortable being made aware of.  Pattisons delivery could have been straight from Manhunter for some of the lines, if feels like for like pretty much.
 

Keoughs performance is interesting, but too subdued here to really give a good feel for how he’d play the character.  The look is very different too…..it’s almost like they want to make him look repulsive.  Messy, scarred, purposely distorted by the glass, rarely giving us a clear look at him….it’s creepy, but for lack of a better way of putting it, it’s very low energy for the Joker.  It was almost like he was supposed to be drugged up for that.   Maybe he was, he’s in Arkham after all, but they didn’t give anything to indicate that if so.  I do think he could do well in a sequel in this universe and think the people involved could do a good story involving him though.

 

that said, cutting was the right decision.   A major Batman character being put in like this for one scene midway through would have felt off.  He also felt a bit more “joker”ish in his scene at the end.  Plus it didn’t add anything that they didn’t show anywhere else, the main thing was about how similar the riddler is to him and in some ways that their goals align, I think they dealt with those bits fine without this

 

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On 12/03/2022 at 21:25, Garwoofoo said:

 

Exactly. We've had twenty years now of dark and gritty Batman films and the only entertainment is who can do the most ridiculous voice. They're boring. Do a camp one you cowards.


Adam West always like to point out Batman was the caped crusader long before he was the dark knight 

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Yeah not really a fan of that deleted scene either.

Spoiler

Always preferred Joker without the scars. I'm not a fan of him being actively repulsive to look at. I think this Joker would look odd in a nicely tailored purple suit. 

 

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