Xbox One backwards compatibility - sales until the heat death of the universe

[Yoshimax]

19 minutes ago, kensei said:

They could just unblock community emulators from the store. 

You can literally legally emulate the balls off of everything? It’s not even hard to do it’s literally a Google away.

[Lyrical Donut]

1 hour ago, DeciderVT said:

 

They're actually selling for silly money too.

 

 

I've got a teh r@re!!1 copy, too 🤔

 

[Yoshimax]

5 hours ago, gossi the dog said:

Bought this earlier. Classics version in a generic case, but it’s DoA. €2.50 from CEX. Bargain.

 

 

Join us. Get laughed at while an S rank paints the scenery with you. It’s awesome:

[Yoshimax]

1 hour ago, Lyrical Donut said:

 

I've got a teh r@re!!1 copy, too 🤔

 

It is so good. Enjoy.

[dumpster]

4 hours ago, Fry Crayola said:

 

Once you're selling something - and while BC may be free, Microsoft are selling the console that offers the feature - you have to meet a higher expectation of standards and support than a group of dedicated hobbyists who don't actually have to answer to anyone.

 

A generic emulator that kinda works most of the time would be fine with us, who appreciate the technical difficulties and are happier to get something rather than nothing, but it's not going to wash with a more casual player who, on finding their new console plays old games, suddenly can't get a bunch of them working for no apparent reason. The halfway house currently on offer isn't ideal, but from Microsoft's perspective they can stand behind the 695 games currently on offer and guarantee they'll actually work.

Great answer.  So let's find another way... 

 

Say, Outrun 2 works 90% to 100% with the existing 360 emulation Microsoft uses, but they can't go any further with it because of the Ferrari licence issue. 

 

You could insert your disk, try and run it, and the screen says "this game has been found to be incompatible with your Xbox console. It may not work correctly. Would you like to try it anyway?" And if you say yes it runs from the disk in a generic emulator.  

 

MS would then have a 3 tier system.  You have games enhanced for Xbone/series S/X, games for 360 that are enhanced by fps boost etc, and games which are not tested but may work (similar to launch PS3s that had BC but many game didn't work).

 

Wishful thinking, and I'm probably asking for the moon on a stick, it's just they've done such an amazing job with this that it's a shame there are probably loads of other games that would play to a high standard but the licences are the issue.  Playing these games directly from disk is surely completely within the terms of the licences, just like, say, playing Megadrive cartridges on a PolyMega is legal.  

 

 

[Super Craig]

I don't think you appreciate the work that goes into an emulator if you think Microsoft should just start a completely new one for use with disc games that can't be relicensed.

[Hitcher]

I don't think it's as simple as an emulator that runs BC games. I believe each individual game has the emulation tailored for it.

[dumpster]

5 hours ago, Super Craig said:

I don't think you appreciate the work that goes into an emulator if you think Microsoft should just start a completely new one for use with disc games that can't be relicensed.

 

44 minutes ago, Hitcher said:

I don't think it's as simple as an emulator that runs BC games. I believe each individual game has the emulation tailored for it.

I'm aware of the work that goes into an emulator, but surely the lion's share of that work is already done, by Microsoft themselves and the emulation community. I get that Microsoft is tweaking the games to make BC compatible versions but surely there's a base emulator that's doing 90% of the heavy lifting and the BC team tweak the last 10% to improve performance. I'm not suggesting Msoft just whip up a whole 360 emulator from scratch for free, I'm suggesting surely they are already 90% done because of the work they already did?

 

[sir stiff_one]

Wait, how come RR6 has gone up in value so much?

[Mr. Gerbik]

Just now, sir stiff_one said:

Wait, how come RR6 has gone up in value so much?

Xbox BC

[DeciderVT]

20 minutes ago, sir stiff_one said:

Wait, how come RR6 has gone up in value so much?

 

BC coupled with no digital release in lots of countries and a thirst for Ridge Racer that Namco are happy to continue ignoring.

[sir stiff_one]

9 minutes ago, DeciderVT said:

 

BC coupled with no digital release in lots of countries and a thirst for Ridge Racer that Namco are happy to continue ignoring.

Ahhh ok! Goddamn I got rid of my 360 games in a bulk sale a few month ago, was thinking “oh might keep that” but realistically hadn’t played it more than an hour per 5 years. Never mind.

[SeanR]

RR6 price has doubled at CEX

 

Spoiler

now £12!

 

[Super Craig]

1 hour ago, dumpster said:

 

I'm aware of the work that goes into an emulator, but surely the lion's share of that work is already done, by Microsoft themselves and the emulation community. I get that Microsoft is tweaking the games to make BC compatible versions but surely there's a base emulator that's doing 90% of the heavy lifting and the BC team tweak the last 10% to improve performance. I'm not suggesting Msoft just whip up a whole 360 emulator from scratch for free, I'm suggesting surely they are already 90% done because of the work they already did?

 

If the BC system Microsoft uses requires licenses to be in order then they’re going have to opt for a different system to get around that. If they’re using recompilation/translation of some

sort then they’d probably have to switch to actually emulating the hardware. Might not be feasible and there’s going to be a lot of work involved that can’t just be copied across.

 

For games with technical issues then it would be good if there was a way to enable compatibility for people who are happy to play with those issues.

[fat flatulent git]

RR6 was the game I got with my 360 back in 2006.  Glad I kept it.

 

It came with FIFA World Cup 2006 but that was traded years ago.

[deerokus]

Sonic Generations really sings at 4k60.

[Lyrical Donut]

12 hours ago, Yoshimax said:

It is so good. Enjoy.

 

I don't have a Series X, so it's off to a forumite next week for an insane markup.

 

I do still have Ridge 7, though.

[Clipper]

5 hours ago, dumpster said:

 

I'm aware of the work that goes into an emulator, but surely the lion's share of that work is already done, by Microsoft themselves and the emulation community. I get that Microsoft is tweaking the games to make BC compatible versions but surely there's a base emulator that's doing 90% of the heavy lifting and the BC team tweak the last 10% to improve performance. I'm not suggesting Msoft just whip up a whole 360 emulator from scratch for free, I'm suggesting surely they are already 90% done because of the work they already did?

 

The way the 360 is emulated means x86 recompilation of the executable for the game, it isn't an emulator programme that runs original roms. When you insert an original disc it downloads the recompiled executable for that game so it can be run.

 

So there isn't an emulator programme that can just run against any old disc and hope for the best, it needs a new recompiled x86 executable for each game and that would breach the rights as you are re-releasing it.

 

Here is DF explaining it

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-xbox-one-x-back-compat-how-does-it-actually-work

 

[TehStu]

Phil* will figure out the older emulation stuff for us.

 

 

*and the army of lawyers

[sir stiff_one]

8 hours ago, DeciderVT said:

 

BC coupled with no digital release in lots of countries and a thirst for Ridge Racer that Namco are happy to continue ignoring.

Has it happened with any other non digitally available games in the same way?

[Dudley]

3 hours ago, Clipper said:

The way the 360 is emulated means x86 recompilation of the executable for the game, it isn't an emulator programme that runs original roms. When you insert an original disc it downloads the recompiled executable for that game so it can be run.

 

So there isn't an emulator programme that can just run against any old disc and hope for the best, it needs a new recompiled x86 executable for each game and that would breach the rights as you are re-releasing it.

 

Here is DF explaining it

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-xbox-one-x-back-compat-how-does-it-actually-work

 

 

Which is how they dodged the licencing issue with Forza Horizon 1 presumably.  The EXE does not technically contain anything licenced, you're providing that from your disk like with say, a DOOM sourceport.

 

Theoretically you could do that for other games but other publishers are a lot more cautious and/or unwilling to allow free play of something they can't sell.

[TehStu]

*sell again.

[Clipper]

Yes that is the other factor. If they have to recompile an x86 executable they need publisher permission to do that, with MS being publisher then that is easier. There will be many games where publisher doesn't give permission for many reasons.

 

But saying that we don't have PGR and that was MS published so who knows with their own properties.

 

Anyway, fact is it isn't an emulator you can chuck discs at hence why it is down to individual game to be recompiled etc.

[moosegrinder]

PGR will be a mess of licenses.

[deerokus]

Activision probably own part of it.

[DeciderVT]

3 hours ago, sir stiff_one said:

Has it happened with any other non digitally available games in the same way?

 

Don't know, I'm afraid. I've not checked any others.

[Dudley]

12 hours ago, Clipper said:

Yes that is the other factor. If they have to recompile an x86 executable they need publisher permission to do that, with MS being publisher then that is easier. There will be many games where publisher doesn't give permission for many reasons.

 

But saying that we don't have PGR and that was MS published so who knows with their own properties.

 

Anyway, fact is it isn't an emulator you can chuck discs at hence why it is down to individual game to be recompiled etc.

 

Yeah as @derrokus implies the problem with PGR is it was published by MS but not really owned by them (much like Mass Effect 1 is owned by EA even though the original publisher was MGS) so you've got to have the discussion with the owners of the remains of the developer which is Activision.

[Jg15]

On 28/11/2021 at 10:59, SeanR said:

RR6 price has doubled at CEX

 

  Hide contents

now £12!

 

CeX prices bemuse me. Silent Hill Downpour is £30 for Xbox 360 (It is Disc only BC now so I can kind of understand the markup) however the PS3 version is £12 more?

[Mr. Gerbik]

46 minutes ago, Jg15 said:

CeX prices bemuse me. Silent Hill Downpour is £30 for Xbox 360 (It is Disc only BC now so I can kind of understand the markup) however the PS3 version is £12 more?

My immediate assumption is that they realized there's demand for that disc because of some backwards compatible thing, but don't understand the details and figure that PlayStation is more popular so that version should cost more.

 

[gossi the dog]

1 hour ago, Jg15 said:

CeX prices bemuse me. Silent Hill Downpour is £30 for Xbox 360 (It is Disc only BC now so I can kind of understand the markup) however the PS3 version is £12 more?

 

CEX set their prices based on supply and demand. Generally speaking the PS3 is more desirable than the 360 from a collector perspective, so the PS3 versions of most desirable/hard to find games are more expensive than the 360 equivalents.