Xbox One backwards compatibility - sales until the heat death of the universe

[Yoshimax]

On 24/11/2021 at 06:08, crocked said:

I assume the issue is due to licensing.

It’s tricky!

[Fargo]

This has probably been asked but can you get RR6 from digitally from any of the Xbox marketplaces ?

[gossi the dog]

1 hour ago, Fargo said:

This has probably been asked but can you get RR6 from digitally from any of the Xbox marketplaces ?

 

Canada, the US and Mexico. You’ll also need to leave the console store region set to one of the above for the game to work.

[Superunknown]

On 24/11/2021 at 06:08, crocked said:

I'm still hoping for SSX Tricky some day. I guess I will have to wait for the 30th anniversary. SSX3 is very good but SSX Tricky is my nostalgia sweet spot. I assume the issue is due to licensing. As long as my old xbox still works I will keep it out just for this.

 

As much as I agree with you, and would love it to happen, I can't see it. Same with Jet Set Radio Future. Too much licenced music, and, in the case of Tricky, they may need to agree royalties for the voice artists (Rahzel, Lucy Liu, Billy Zane, David Arquette, Macy Gray, Oliver Platt, Bif Naked, Jim Rose, Patricia Velasquez), which seems like a *really* tall order.

[carlospie]

9 hours ago, Sarlaccfood said:

Yeah he is right? I just can’t remember which ones as they all have such similar names and I know there is some stink in there.

Lord of Shadows is the cutscene heavy ones with epic bosses.

[Mr. Gerbik]

Wasn't the second Lord of Shadows a bit shit compared to the first one? 

[moosegrinder]

Apparently. Still bought it.

[Mr. Gerbik]

Yeah, me too.

[Hitcher]

They were Games With Gold a few years ago.

[moosegrinder]

I think it was more recent than that, but I bought them before that anyway. Naturally, I haven't played it.

[carlospie]

Could someone buy me them please. It is Christmas after all

[fat flatulent git]

On 20/11/2021 at 23:27, Yoshimax said:

DOA4 is such a technical marvel it’s bonkers to think it was a launch title. I’d forgotten how seamless and slick and feature rich it was/is right off the bat. Where did they hide the loading? It just doesn’t happen - compare it to Tekken7 and it’s bonkers.

 

This is real-time it’s not CGI absolutely nuts.

 

 

 

 

My local had this.  I snapped it up today.

[Yoshimax]

8 hours ago, Death Adder said:

 

My local had this.  I snapped it up today.

We literally have a meet-up once a week to play gamer tag??

[fat flatulent git]

Thanks, but I'm just a single-playet gamer.

[Yoshimax]

Apart from being able to revisit oldie but goldie games the best thing about BC is it’s basically like having multiple arcade machines in yer house without the cabinet bulk and on tap. I’ve dined on DOA, Ridge Racer, Daytona and Crazy Taxi in amongst Halo sessions today. Fucking amazing.

[Yoshimax]

Also how the actual fuck did we get DOA4 and Ridge6 in 2005? I get they’re upscaled to 4K and auto-HDR but Jesus Christ They look and play like they’re fresh out the oven.

[Fry Crayola]

If you're talking graphically, then it's not too surprising - 2005 was the year of Resident Evil 4, after all, and later than the likes of Metroid Prime 1 & 2, or MGS 2 & 3, all of which remain good looking games.

[Nick R]

On 26/11/2021 at 08:01, Superunknown said:

As much as I agree with you, and would love it to happen, I can't see it. Same with Jet Set Radio Future. Too much licenced music, and, in the case of Tricky, they may need to agree royalties for the voice artists (Rahzel, Lucy Liu, Billy Zane, David Arquette, Macy Gray, Oliver Platt, Bif Naked, Jim Rose, Patricia Velasquez), which seems like a *really* tall order.

 

I understand why issues with royalties and other aspects of licensing contracts mean that games with music/brands/likenesses etc can't be sold now.

 

But I don't get why MS would be prevented from distributing backwards compatibility patches for existing owners of that software?

 

Essentially what I'm wondering is: if MS were to release BC patches to let people use an Xbox Series X to play their disc copy of Outrun 2006, or their account's digital copy of 360 Outrun Online Arcade, could they do so regardless of what Ferrari says?

 

Two potential reasons I can think of why they can't do that:

 

1. Those licensing contracts had the foresight to explicitly state that they only applied to playing the game on specific hardware platforms, and nothing outside of the pre-agreed list. So when Outrun 2006 was made, Ferrari said "this agreement applies to arcade, PS2, Xbox, and PC *only*" and then when Online Arcade came out, they said "this agreement applies to Xbox 360 and PS3 *only*." So getting it running on anything else would require a brand new contract.

 

2. The way BC works is that, as mentioned recently in this thread, it's a recompilation of the game, and all assets are distributed online rather than being read from the disc. It's not like the fan projects like Sonic 3 AIR or that x86 port of Mario 64, where to avoid accusations of piracy they only distribute a new executable, and leave it up to you to supply a ROM containing the assets. Therefore, even though MS wouldn't be selling the game, only distributing it to people who own an existing copy of it... they *would* still be distributing it, licensed music/logos/brands and all.

[Mr. Gerbik]

 

 

 

 

[Fry Crayola]

26 minutes ago, Nick R said:

Essentially what I'm wondering is: if MS were to release BC patches to let people use an Xbox Series X to play their disc copy of Outrun 2006, or their account's digital copy of 360 Outrun Online Arcade, could they do so regardless of what Ferrari says?

 

Two potential reasons I can think of why they can't do that:

 

1. Those licensing contracts had the foresight to explicitly state that they only applied to playing the game on specific hardware platforms, and nothing outside of the pre-agreed list. So when Outrun 2006 was made, Ferrari said "this agreement applies to arcade, PS2, Xbox, and PC *only*" and then when Online Arcade came out, they said "this agreement applies to Xbox 360 and PS3 *only*." So getting it running on anything else would require a brand new contract.

 

2. The way BC works is that, as mentioned recently in this thread, it's a recompilation of the game, and all assets are distributed online rather than being read from the disc. It's not like the fan projects like Sonic 3 AIR or that x86 port of Mario 64, where to avoid accusations of piracy they only distribute a new executable, and leave it up to you to supply a ROM containing the assets. Therefore, even though MS wouldn't be selling the game, only distributing it to people who own an existing copy of it... they *would* still be distributing it, licensed music/logos/brands and all.

 

I believe it's a case of your second point - because the BC version is a new build that needs to be downloaded, assets and all, it would be in violation of their terms of use to do so. 

 

This is different to, say, PS1 compatibility on later PS models, where the console reads everything from the disc you already own. 

[gossi the dog]

Bought this earlier. Classics version in a generic case, but it’s DoA. €2.50 from CEX. Bargain.

 

 

[dumpster]

2 hours ago, Yoshimax said:

Also how the actual fuck did we get DOA4 and Ridge6 in 2005? I get they’re upscaled to 4K and auto-HDR but Jesus Christ They look and play like they’re fresh out the oven.

It blows my mind but Ridge Racers for the PSP, upscaled automatically on Xbox using the PPSSPP emulator looks better that RR6 in many ways. Quite extraordinary.  I'm sure some of the games you buy as remasters are just the original game and an emulator doing the hard work.

[dumpster]

I get the rules regarding licences etc...  But I don't see any reason why MS couldn't release an OG Xbox / 360 emulator that's generic. It would only contain code that belongs to Microsoft and if the emulator plays JSRF and Outrun2 then so be it.  The way they have done BC up to this point has been outstanding, but if this is truly the end of that programme than why not create a stand alone emulator to take care of the rest of your collection? Some games will work better than others but the PC homebrew community is doing amazing stuff with 360 emulation, Microsoft could surely do it too.

[moosegrinder]

 

[gossi the dog]

14 minutes ago, dumpster said:

It blows my mind but Ridge Racers for the PSP, upscaled automatically on Xbox using the PPSSPP emulator looks better that RR6 in many ways. Quite extraordinary.  I'm sure some of the games you buy as remasters are just the original game and an emulator doing the hard work.

 

The Xbox One version of the Devil May Cry HD collection is the Xbox 360 version running in BC mode. 

[dumpster]

1 minute ago, gossi the dog said:

 

The Xbox One version of the Devil May Cry HD collection is the Xbox 360 version running in BC mode. 

Some of the releases for PS3 (Ico, Shadow of the Collosus spring to mind) were reverse engineered and turned out to be a straight ISO file if I remember.  Like Sony removed BC from the PS3 early in its life cycle, then started charging for PS2 games for your PS3. There's simply no reason that PS2 disk you own wouldn't work on a PS3, but Sony chose to charge you again to download the emulator and ISO in a package.

[Mr. Gerbik]

3 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

 

 

 

 

This is a must-see video by the way. The retro enthusiast of DF explains and shows why Xbox BC is transformative. The games don't just look better, they *play* better, they're more responsive, less laggy - BC improves the actual gameplay. It's incredible stuff. Microsoft is light years ahead of the competition with this.

[DeciderVT]

2 hours ago, moosegrinder said:

 

 

They're actually selling for silly money too.

 

[Fry Crayola]

2 hours ago, dumpster said:

I get the rules regarding licences etc...  But I don't see any reason why MS couldn't release an OG Xbox / 360 emulator that's generic. It would only contain code that belongs to Microsoft and if the emulator plays JSRF and Outrun2 then so be it.  The way they have done BC up to this point has been outstanding, but if this is truly the end of that programme than why not create a stand alone emulator to take care of the rest of your collection? Some games will work better than others but the PC homebrew community is doing amazing stuff with 360 emulation, Microsoft could surely do it too.

 

Once you're selling something - and while BC may be free, Microsoft are selling the console that offers the feature - you have to meet a higher expectation of standards and support than a group of dedicated hobbyists who don't actually have to answer to anyone.

 

A generic emulator that kinda works most of the time would be fine with us, who appreciate the technical difficulties and are happier to get something rather than nothing, but it's not going to wash with a more casual player who, on finding their new console plays old games, suddenly can't get a bunch of them working for no apparent reason. The halfway house currently on offer isn't ideal, but from Microsoft's perspective they can stand behind the 695 games currently on offer and guarantee they'll actually work.

[kensei]

They could just unblock community emulators from the store.