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Xbox One backwards compatibility - sales until the heat death of the universe


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2 hours ago, mdn2 said:

There's a fairly decent BC sale this week. Stuff like Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, MGS Collection, Red Dead and XCom: Enemy Within (first time it's been on sale, I think). 

 

https://www.trueachievements.com/n44636/xbox-360-sale-roundup-february-9th-2021

 

Why is MGS Peace Walker never on sale? I got my hopes up for a second there. 

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13 minutes ago, deerokus said:

Japanese games have always been strange about camera controls. Forced inverted used to be quite common, and I was playing something the other day which has 'normal' and 'reverse'... Reversed. 

Yep, I was just going to say that even around the release of Blue Dragon inverted was regarded as inverted - the disagreement/confusion was more a thing of the PS2 era. 360 onwards it's only the occasional Japanese dev that does it differently or even insists on inverted or bust. Just a few days ago I fired up the brand new demo of Ys IX - a brand new 2021 game - and had to set the vertical camera to 'inverted' in the options to set it what's actually normal.

 

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8 hours ago, mdn2 said:

There's a fairly decent BC sale this week. Stuff like Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, MGS Collection, Red Dead and XCom: Enemy Within (first time it's been on sale, I think). 

 

https://www.trueachievements.com/n44636/xbox-360-sale-roundup-february-9th-2021

 

Curses. More money spent on sale items. 

 

MGS 2&3

Blue Dragon

Lost Odyssey

Bully

Spec Ops The Line

 

All now in the library destined to be never played! (I also bought Alan Wake American Nightmare as I am about to finish the main game for the first time so really pleased it was on there) 

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35 minutes ago, Super Craig said:

I think it's more that every 360 game was supported, even if it meant that they had to run as is.

 

yeah

 

"run any 360 game in a 'default' mode without enhancement so I could finally get rid of the console."

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18 hours ago, gossi the dog said:

 

Blue Dragon has camera controls that you can't change. The x axis is set to what nowadays is regarded as inverted. Did my head in when I tried to play it a year or so ago.

 

I'm replaying Conker's BFD on Rare Replay and this is doing my head in. It's like learning how to walk again. But someone's switched your arms and legs. 

 

Not only is the X axis inverted, but first person aiming is on the left stick and also inverted compared to what I'm used to. And they didn't change this back in 2016 when RR was released, or patch it in like they did with Jet Force Gemini. 

 

I quite liked Blue Dragon back in 2008 or whenever, when I picked it up for a tenner during my uni days. Never did get anywhere near finishing it though. I might pick it up for £3 and again, never get anywhere near finishing it. 

 

I quite liked the art style as it was fairly unique for the 360 and, I think, was the first real JRPG on the console. There were only ever about three of them released during the console's lifespan, mind. 

 

I have Dragon Quest 11 on Gamepass so I really *shouldn't* purchase this... But it could be a bit of a nostalgia fest (well nostalgic for the first ten hours that I actually played). 

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6 hours ago, Hitcher said:

Why don't you want the enhancements?

 

6 hours ago, Super Craig said:

I think it's more that every 360 game was supported, even if it meant that they had to run as is.

 

6 hours ago, SeanR said:

 

yeah

 

"run any 360 game in a 'default' mode without enhancement so I could finally get rid of the console."

this, I'd be perfectly fine with that as a compromise while they continue the BC programme.

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@Parksey Did you miss my post a few posts above? You can use the accessories app to set up various profiles and set inverted/normal axis and button layout to your hearts content :) 

  

 Like you I just can't get used to controls when I can't set inverted etc. The remake of Fable would have been unplayable for me if I hadn't been able to use the accessories app.

 

 The only fiddly bit for me, is that I forget I have set a profile and then after using one for a few hours, I forget and then wonder why the controls are screwed up when I start another game :) 

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15 hours ago, SMD said:

I really wish the Xbox Series X had a mode where you could run any 360 game in a 'default' mode without enhancement so I could finally get rid of the console.

 

Thing is, that's pretty much what it does - runs 360 games in a default mode. Sure, a few games like Red Dead have specific enhancements that mean they run at 4K or whatever, but most of the 360 library just runs "as is". Then any enhancements you get are just a result of the newer console adding stuff like Auto HDR or improved load speeds, which it does across the board to everything.

 

The 360 is totally different to the Xbox One/XSX architecture so there isn't a switch they can flip that just says "run this Xbox 360 game". Every one has to be specifically emulated. It's a miracle of software engineering that it works as well as it does, for as many titles as it does.

 

Apparently they are going to restart the backward compatibility programme later this year so we should get some more games. The OG Xbox library in particular could do with some attention.

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4 hours ago, SMD said:

 

 

this, I'd be perfectly fine with that as a compromise while they continue the BC programme.

 

25 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

 

Thing is, that's pretty much what it does - runs 360 games in a default mode. Sure, a few games like Red Dead have specific enhancements that mean they run at 4K or whatever, but most of the 360 library just runs "as is". Then any enhancements you get are just a result of the newer console adding stuff like Auto HDR or improved load speeds, which it does across the board to everything.

 

The 360 is totally different to the Xbox One/XSX architecture so there isn't a switch they can flip that just says "run this Xbox 360 game". Every one has to be specifically emulated. It's a miracle of software engineering that it works as well as it does, for as many titles as it does.

 

Apparently they are going to restart the backward compatibility programme later this year so we should get some more games. The OG Xbox library in particular could do with some attention.

To add to this: licensing issues is what prevents a bunch of 360 games from appearing. Apart from that, it's like @Garwoofoo says - the 360 library runs using a virtual machine environment. Something Microsoft is apparently very good at and the emulation/BC on XB1 and Series is nothing short of miraculous in this regard. This also means, afaik, that they need to test every game - it's not "it just works", from what I understood they need to check every game and tweak as needed. On top of that, they "enhance' selected games making them look like proper remasters,but that's not what's preventing games from appearing in Xbox BC.

 

It's also a lot of work and takes a lot of dark magic dev skill to get it to the level of quality it currently is, and that's why so far Sony can't be bothered to be brutally honest. I would love for them to do the same with their PS3 library (and earlier) and the existence of PS3 emulators on PC proves it's totally possible, but I don't expect they will do it anytime soon if ever. Or if they do, come anywhere close to the high bar set by the Xbox BC team.

 

Good news btw about them returning to the BC programme! I was hoping they'd do that :D

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Parksey said:

@SteveH

 

So you download this accessories app and remap controls there? And it'll stick the controls in Conker's BFD on Rare Replay to be the "right" way round? Might not need to go play the OG Xbox version (which I  just bought in protest) now...

 

 Yeah you just get the accessories app and it has a test section for checking all your buttons etc and a "new profile" option. You can then remap buttons and choose inverted axis etc and just name the profile for whatever game you want to use it with. Then when you want to change back, just go back into the app and choose default again :) 

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On the subject of backward compatibility, I downloaded the 360 version of XCOM: Enemy Within as it's on sale at the moment. It's bloody marvellous on the Series X. It's the XCOM I remember, but with a completely locked framerate, no texture pop-in, HDR and near instantaneous load times. It still looks great too for a game that's a decade and two console generations old.

 

I've been trying to play XCOM 2 on Switch lately but (while it's a miracle it's even on there) it runs like an absolute dog and it's not a pleasant experience at all. At this rate I can see myself double-dipping on the Xbox version of that too, I really should stop buying games on other consoles as they're always a disappointment!

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24 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

On the subject of backward compatibility, I downloaded the 360 version of XCOM: Enemy Within as it's on sale at the moment. It's bloody marvellous on the Series X. It's the XCOM I remember, but with a completely locked framerate, no texture pop-in, HDR and near instantaneous load times. It still looks great too for a game that's a decade and two console generations old.

 

I've been trying to play XCOM 2 on Switch lately but (while it's a miracle it's even on there) it runs like an absolute dog and it's not a pleasant experience at all. At this rate I can see myself double-dipping on the Xbox version of that too, I really should stop buying games on other consoles as they're always a disappointment!

 

Xcom 2 is currently a fiver in the sale on Xbox.

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3 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Xcom 2 is currently a fiver in the sale on Xbox.

 

I know - and the full collection with War of the Chosen and all the other DLC is only £15. Anyone got any hands-on experience of how this runs these days? I know at launch it was supposed to have all sorts of performance problems but I'm hoping the One X enhancements it got and the horsepower of the Series X will have ironed out most of its issues.

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1 hour ago, SteveH said:

 Yeah you just get the accessories app and it has a test section for checking all your buttons etc and a "new profile" option. You can then remap buttons and choose inverted axis etc and just name the profile for whatever game you want to use it with. Then when you want to change back, just go back into the app and choose default again :) 

 

Unfortunately, a quick dabble on the app before I left the house seemed to suggest it's only the Y-axis you can change? My main problem with Conker is that the camera isn't inverted on the z-axis like every modern game. 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

 

 

It's also a lot of work and takes a lot of dark magic dev skill to get it to the level of quality it currently is, and that's why so far Sony can't be bothered to be brutally honest. I would love for them to do the same with their PS3 library (and earlier) and the existence of PS3 emulators on PC proves it's totally possible, but I don't expect they will do it anytime soon if ever. Or if they do, come anywhere close to the high bar set by the Xbox BC team.

 

I think it's unfair to say they can't be bothered. There have been rumours flying around for a while that they've tried or are trying, with reports of them putting job adverts up asking for people who do emulation. 

 

I just think the PS3 is such an odd duck it'll defy emulation for a long while. Certainly on consoles. There have been some amateur efforts with some progress on PC in a handful of games. But I think the only thing you can do is force it by brute force and hope there is enough power in the PC. So good luck getting that to play nice. 

 

You can play PS3 on PS Now? They've had to go really sideways to do it. 

 

 

I just bought Blue Dragon and know full well I'll never get around to it. But I was voting with my wallet. Can I had more BC please, Microsoft? 

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53 minutes ago, Parksey said:

 

Unfortunately, a quick dabble on the app before I left the house seemed to suggest it's only the Y-axis you can change? My main problem with Conker is that the camera isn't inverted on the z-axis like every modern game. 

Ah that's a shame. Never needed to change that axis myself. I did look online and it seems it has been suggested to Microsoft as an option as far back as 2015 but I guess they ignored the requests :/ 

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