Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

[Let us measure]

5 hours ago, Vulgar Monkey said:

 

Interesting you mention the original. 

I've been considering going back to that for a while to see how it holds up, and ended up coming across some videos of the Revision mod, where they've updated the maps a fair bit and collated a bunch of gameplay adaption from other mods, one of which streamlines the augs a bit to be the best of both worlds (same nuanced mechanics, but mostly automated contextually so they're more like passives). Also a 'trenchcoat mode' with half the inventory space.

 

I have to say though, the game seems to have aged really well. The most striking thing for me is how big it feels, and how many approaches you can take to any objective. Even by todays standards it's way way up there in terms of level design, layout etc. The only thing the new games have on it is the modern environmental design, the amount of incidental clutter that makes places feel lived-in. Atmosphere.

 

Given the stuff that's going on with the system shock revival, it'd be nice to think a DX remake would happen, but it'd probably mess with the ongoing Jensen franchise in terms of narrative, maybe. NIce to think about though. But the underlying stuff is solid as ever and I'd well recommend anyone thinking about trying it gives it a go.

 

 

 

 

In order to get myself hyped for MD, I started playing the original with the Revision mod. I got so into it that by the time MD arrived in the post I couldn't really be arsed to open it and would rather have spent my time messing about in the VersaLife building in Wan Chai. It really holds up ridiculously well for a 16 year old game, and the Revision mod does well to add some much needed new texture work. Just don't listen to Revision's soundtrack, the OST beats it in every regard.

 

But yeah, it's definitely in my top five games. The freedom really feels more organic - there are at least six different ways of getting rid of Maggie Chow for example, one of them being shooting her as soon as you first meet her. This doesn't mess up the story at all, it just moves things around, fast forwards a few bits, but then of course you miss out on the epic dragon blade duel at the base of the UC. I had totally forgotten that there's an unforgiving martial law segment in in the original DX too.

 

MD's Prague recalls the best bits of exploring Hell's Kitchen in DX, which is why I love it so.

[Vulgar Monkey]

I remember chucking her out of her penthouse window personally, partly to see if anyone on the street below would respond. They, er, did.

Scale and life of the game in action, right there.

 

But yeah, agreed on prague. It's interesting in that it's almost certainly the first bit of daylight we've had in any deus ex game. I know perma-night + rain + neon is the classic cyberpunk trope, and MD does that brilliantly too, but it's good to push the envelope and see how well the design holds up under the cold light of day, so to speak. They set themselves a challenge in mixing the fancy new shit with one of the oldest most architecturally distinct cities around too, which is great (honorable mention to dishonored and half-life 2 for trying the same trick).

 

You mention hells kitchen....in particular the one thing about that which does show the games age a bit, and which irked me even on release, is that the game is set in 2053-ish iirc, but hells kitchen could be hells kitchen in 1999, ed209s robots aside. Same for every other environment in DX1. I know back then they were pretty limited by the engine in how arty and creative they could be, but moreso I think it's an issue bought up by the rapid advance of tech in the real world making fictional settings look outdated, but also the settings in the newer games being much more advanced than what chronologically came after in the series. An issue common with prequels, I guess.

 

Given what they achieved with new detroit and prague, I'd love to see a full remake one day just to see how they approach that problem - taking hells kitchen/paris/etc, bringing them up to the level of technology we see in the jensen-era renaissance, then having that same environment go to shit in the following global collapse. A kind of futuristic obsolecence, like all the interesting stuff we see in certain sci-fi films. 

[Down by Law]

I thought they might wrap up the Jensen trilogy with the next game and then do a full blown remake of the first. Of course with sales on the poor side for MD we might not even get another DE game at all

 

Human Revolution would have been a perfect game for a PS4/XB1 upgrade a couple of years ago as it ran like shit on the old consoles. Then they could've chucked it in as a preorder bonus for MD, like Bethesda has put in digital copies of Dishonored: DE in Dishonored 2. But instead SE ported Sleeping Dogs,a game that ran great on the last gen and a game they have no plans to make a sequel for.

 

They are a baffling company.

 

Anyway, second playthough continues....

 

This time round I am absolutely loving Prague 3rd visit! First time I just tried to avoid and run away, this time I'm actively hunting the cops- non-lethally, of course, restricting myself with takedowns, tesla and emp grenades. Hitting 4 cops with one blast of tesla, runnning out and beating the shit out of the mech-heavies, still stunned from the current, is so satisfying. Using the remote hacking to set off car alarms to lure cops over is great fun, as is turning invisible and jumping up and down on the vans to set the alarm off, before jumping behind them and smashing face. Of course, it's all wrapped up in a stunning neon and rain soaked prague and the atmosphere is just incredible. Wish I'd have taken a more direct approach the first time round....

 

 

Next up - slaughter every last Dvali in the theatre with copious amounts of Shotgun and Focus Aug combo. GARM was glorious for this, gold helmets and armour exploding everywhere in super slow motion was just fantastic fun  

 

[pulsemyne]

Completed this earlier today. Good game but the ending is wanky. The game just seems to stop. Oh and the wonderful unskippable credits. Fuck you for that one.

[Cosmic_Guru]

I've completed my second play through and gotten the non lethal achievement (pretty certain now the first run was spoiled by destroying the drone which lingers around the fake police checkpoint, I don't think concussed enemies die accidentally from flopping off high levels like they do in Dishonored for example).  The definition of "alarms" must include all red statuses, but I'm not motivated to try again or do the iron man run although that should be pretty simple with a stealth approach.

 

I thought the atmosphere and story premise were above average.  The bank and theatre missions were the best designed ones, with their nifty exit routes, but the Golem ghetto was also memorable.

 

I was particularly impressed with the side missions though, the different ways in which they can be completed, and the further ramifications which can arise (for example, I didn't work at all for Otar this time around and as a consequence one route through to the theatre via the Divali flats was no longer readily available because the hydraulic lifter you use was absent this time (it still may have been possible to heap up a load of bins to reach the windows which were still interactable), and there are different consequences for Koller too, sad ones.  Helping the Samizdat leads to a copy of their newspaper and a bottle of Absinthe being left on your doorstep.  Going to the bomb maker this time meant less assistance from Alex re door codes in the final level.

 

Done now, but a good effort and look forward to part 3.

[gospvg]

Playing on the PS4, is there a quick button press for opening up the map?

 

Love the little Easter eggs in the game. Found this lady playing a deus ex psp/vita console.

 

 

[smac]

On 07/09/2016 at 19:42, Cosmic_Guru said:

Remote hacking is another brilliant way to move guards around - just simple stuff like opening and shutting window blinds does the trick.

 

And remote hacked shop awnings make great platforms for navigation above street level.

 

Edit: and this is my first post after finishing up; it's fascinating to see how different other people's games were. I did almost nothing in the bank, despite picking up several access cards before going there. Knocking out the account manager early on while snooping around probably didn't help.

 

I apparently managed to knock out every last cop in Prague, so the curfew just wasn't a problem.

 

I got terribly lost in the very last section of the game, which meant

 

I actually killed every mercenary goon between me and the VIP room first, so when I took out the big boss first I had nothing in the way and got back in time to save everyone from Champagne poisoning too! Huzzah!

 

On starting the replay, simply taking out the goons in the bookshop in NG+ was fun, instead of sneaking through the vents.

[Monkeyspill]

I'm stuck and worried something's fucked up. I've been on the Rucker extraction for ages. I'm supposed to

access the elevator - but the waypoint on the map just leads to an empty elevator shaft. I've been wandering around the area for hours now and haven't found anything. I've even gone all the way back to the start. I'm not sure what I've missed.[\spoiler]

[DjSatansfur3h]

1 hour ago, clumpyjamie said:

I'm stuck and worried something's fucked up. I've been on the Rucker extraction for ages. I'm supposed to

  Hide contents

access the elevator - but the waypoint on the map just leads to an empty elevator shaft. I've been wandering around the area for hours now and haven't found anything. I've even gone all the way back to the start. I'm not sure what I've missed.[\spoiler]

 

Spoiler

Map marker is wrong. Go down the shaft and onto level 2. Beyond the lasers and shit there's a lift, you need to be in there. Puzzled me for ages as well.

 

[Monkeyspill]

26 minutes ago, DjSatansfur3h said:

 

  Hide contents

Map marker is wrong. Go down the shaft and onto level 2. Beyond the lasers and shit there's a lift, you need to be in there. Puzzled me for ages as well.

 

On the plus side I found a new weapon and

 

dragged a penguin miles through the level to get a free Praxis point.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

I'm really struggling to get into this properly.

 

I enjoy it when I play it, and can sink hours into it, but... I have absolutely no urge to play it when I'm not on, and can happily end up jumping onto Elite or Destiny instead for hours on end. It's just not hooked me in at all

 

I want to play it... but only really because I spent money on it, and I don't like giving up on games.

[smac]

 

14 hours ago, DjSatansfur3h said:

[Solution to clumpyjamie's problem]

 

I had the same in the last mission, where the damned destination marker sent me around in circles instead of taking me to the only elevator I could use to reach the target. But I ended up with a better final outcome as a result.

[Monkeyspill]

17 hours ago, DjSatansfur3h said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Map marker is wrong. Go down the shaft and onto level 2. Beyond the lasers and shit there's a lift, you need to be in there. Puzzled me for ages as well.

 

I finally got to the lift but I was unable to do it without setting off an alarm because, comically, an NPC is stuck in the lift walls. He can't get to me but he set the others off.

[Mr. Gerbik]

had the same npc stuck in the wall in that same lift. Had to toss a gas grenade inside to be able to use the lift without alerting him!

[smac]

Luckily, my NPCs embedded in walls limited themselves to the entrances to the tube stations, when walking down the stairs.

 

Must have made them out of *really* cheap breezeblock. Or they were all augs who didn't know their own strength.

 

Edit: I did find one guy lying on an old sofa in the sewers. Well, his head was on the sofa; the rest of his body was stretched out horizontally over thin air in front of it, legs crossed. That was an impressive feat of neck strength. That, or someone had just nailed his head to the seat.

[Down by Law]

This bin has seen some shit:

 

 

10/10 for Aliens Reference

 

 

Reminded me of the original Deus Ex colour scheme: also excellent art direction

 

[smac]

Man, I've only just started the second playthrough and it seems that I have a complete side mission in train that I missed out on, before.

 

Because I never got the secret pass to the door I found near the railway...

[vamecum]

https://goo.gl/photos/C3TDNeEhBL1bBZXF8

 

A true dumpster jump! 

[smac]

And in Golem City, I somehow managed to find a completely new route through ARC territory that avoided everyone. I think I recognized just two rooms in the new route I took. Same after finishing the meeting with Rucker - new route out through the greenhouses without being seen by anyone.

 

Plus before that I could not find the trader who had the ladder up to ARC anywhere. Could not remember how I stumbled upon him last time.

 

Place is more complex than you think...

[Karzee]

That trader you mentioned, he was the target the mob boss wanted taken out.

[Pob]

I adjusted my controls on this after unlocking the dash/blink ability, which seems to be optimised for being pressed in conjunction with a direction. I switched back to Mankind Divided controls so free up the L1 as an aug button, then used the PS4's button remapping function to swap L3 and Triangle. This puts sprint in its logical place on L3, and cover on Triangle. Dunno why it's not that way by default.

[smac]

50 minutes ago, Karzee said:

That trader you mentioned, he was the target the mob boss wanted taken out.

 

Nah, I ghosted the mob boss bit, to get the McGuffin. Nobody saw me, nobody talked to me, four people took a nap.

 

He'll still let you through, if you do him a favour.

[Majora]

This has sold really poorly in the US (120k in its first week across all platforms) and didn't fare much better in Europe. There's a very good chance, given its reputed budget, that we may never see another sequel to this. Even that crap Thi4f game sold better than this in the US and that killed that franchise again.

 

I did post in this thread a few weeks before release that it seemed like there was a giant wave of apathy towards the title amongst the general gaming community, and this seems to have been borne out in its commercial performance. Even here, the Human Revolution thread reached 155 pages. Several weeks after release, this has scraped 26.

 

So what went wrong? Did the continued delays kill the hype? Was 5 years too long to release a sequel to a not especially big brand even though HR was very positively received? Have other games released in the meantime made Deus Ex seem less unique in its approach? Or did the game just look a bit last-gen and not much of a jump over the first game (which I suppose is true in both cases even though I still liked it)?

 

We don't get loads of games like this even though it's no longer so unique so it'd be a real shame if the franchise is dead now.

[Pob]

I don't really get it - maybe it was down to marketing, or lack of? There was very little hype in the weeks before release. I'd even forgotten it was being released when I got my dispatch notification, which never happens. It's not like it was released amidst loads of competition, either. The only big release in the immediate vicinity was No Man's Sky I think.

 

It's sad because it's an intelligent, deep and well-crafted game, something that is borne out in the review scores. It's certainly on par with Human Revolution (so far, anyway). There's not much else like it around.

[footle]

18 minutes ago, Majora said:

Or did the game just look a bit last-gen

 

That's hardly the case. The first game had about ten years of anticipation going for it though.

[Down by Law]

Square Enix shit management:

 

Awful - 'augment your pre-order' initiative that was scrapped

Delay from a quiet February for six whole months without any particular reason

Radio and PR silence for months, no previews, diddly squat

Promo materials still circulating showing the February date

Sod all marketing of the game close to release

Released just after No Man's Sky, a super hyped title

Negative coverage of Microtransactions that have zero effect on the game but no response from Square to assure players they are completely optional

Breach mode pretty much a big waste of time 'do the same map 4 times' as opposed to good large, sprawling levels

Poor overpriced collectors edition (£110!)

Jensen's Stories blatantly pulled from the main game

Overprice season pass that contains praxis kits and credits, further giving the impression you need them for the campaign - you dont

No PS4/XB1 port of Human Revolution : Directors Cut to keep interest in the franchise but choose to release Sleeping Dogs a game they do not intend to make a sequel for instead

 

The sales are criminal but steamspy has around 320,000 users on PC, so with the physical console sales it must have hit 1/2 million surely

Either way it's way short of the projected 3million target for the game

 

Game needs a re-print or pack in with PS4 Pro now to have any legs. Criminal. Absolutely criminal.

 

 

 

[Pob]

Square Enix do seem to screw up the publishing of quality titles. This, Hitman, Tomb Raider. all failing to hit targets (actually, I'm not sure how Hitman is performing) but all excellent games. And, in the case of Hitman and Deus Ex, games that have reverence for their franchise's respective histories and a focus on gameplay rather than chasing whatever the current big thing is.

[deerokus]

I think Hitman is doing very well, not for want of trying by SE though with the constant changes to the release model before it came out.

 

There was a good amount of hype for this a year or so ago, it seemed to have completely evaporated by release, as if they forgot to market it after the delays. I didn't even know it was out.

 

 

Shame, because it's a good game.

[Majora]

1 hour ago, footle said:

 

That's hardly the case. The first game had about ten years of anticipation going for it though.

 

Well I think it depends which parts of the game you're in to be honest. Some parts looks great, some parts look a bit dodgy. Certainly, someone watching the character models and animations in cutscenes could be forgiven for thinking it's still 2011 (and the character animations looked bad even then).

[Talk Show Host]

Frankly, I do not think that this is a good game. It shows no ambition for a Deus Ex title, the AI is still not much better than Human Revolution, the gameplay is nothing we haven't seen before -it is actually quite stale by now- and the story/characters/writing is simply not good and far from modern standards. The fact that it literally feels half finished is an embarrassment and I would be happy with SE suffering low sales if it didn't mean fear of cancelling any sequels altogether.

 

It took them five years to generate the hype about the "mechanical apartheid" and they never went anywhere with it. I didn't feel -except from the first hours- any kind of exploration on the apartheid themes or terrorism for that matter, except the hyperbole of "grey ethics" and "everyone is right" which is, to be frank, quite directionless when it is not backed up by deep exposition of the involved parties.

 

I know that "being able to kill someone or infiltrate some place in a million ways" is considered amazing gameplay not to be questioned by anyone (mainly I believe because we are still hanging on that Deus Ex), but I find it pretty boring because the game world has not advanced as equally as the opportunities that offers to the player to "crack" it. It is just there, waiting to be cracked open at the player's whim. What was revolution back in the day and felt good to have it back in Human Revolution, here it made me feel like "been there, done that" for most of the times.

 

I can't say that I didn't enjoy the openness of approach, as I always do, the dark secrets in emails and trying to piece together the story puzzle. But it all fell flat by the end and I caught myself thinking that I never felt clever or excited about cracking a mission (with some exceptions of course). And that is not necessarily a failure of the mechanics. I believe it is the failure of the design that does not provide enough opportunities for them to shine in new ways. For example, as amazing as the remote hacking was, I kinda felt like it was cheating a bit and was just a fancy way of doing the same thing as before - probably a less exciting way.

 

Now, I know people love it in here, so I just shared my opinion and do not wish to start a debate about it. I am probably getting too old or something. I enjoy the fact that people enjoyed it and I really like the world, the setting and the gameplay possibilities. But Mankind Divided felt shallow in all the important bits for me. The SE development and marketing shenanigans, which are probably responsible for the game's low sales, cannot be denied. But maybe -just maybe- people didn't feel excited enough with what they saw leading up to release and simply didn't go for it.