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Street Fighter V Champion Edition


joffocakes
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Shoryuken is extremely fast and completely invincible when it starts up, so I'd expected it to beat that flying grab. The benefit of the EX version of that move is that it goes further, is faster and you can adjust the distance it travels. It doesn't give it any invincibility and won't make it beat attacks. Doing it from full screen against an opponent who was stood still was a very risky move!

 

EDIT: Ah I see, the grab animation had actually started, then yes, that is rollback silliness. Apologies, was hard to see that at full speed and llooked like he'd just got it out in time. His reaction and response to what you did were pretty on point though, really wouldn't recommend throwing that move out at full screen.

 

GGs Dood! I have lots of stuff I can tell you about the match up and just some general Chun pointers, might wait until the match footage is available as it'll be good to have examples.

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Heh. Mate! Fuck me that was so intense.  I felt like I was starting to wise up a bit towards the end but not sure if my nerves can take another set tonight! This old body is letting me down these days. 

 

Will make your episode of Rivals(tm) though and I'd welcome pointers.  It's so hard to know when it's my turn! 

 

Lots of my well practiced stuff went completely out the window once you were up in my face! 

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Look at this dick. Super silver my arse.  Where do I report this? I'm posting it on a random blog post at Capcom Unity, but is that going to achieve anything?

 

 

Edit - well I would post it there if I could even log in.. WTF.  Nice work, capcom. 

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Rollback netcode seems like it works a bit on prediction then rollsback to the last common sync point if things happen differently. Because it's mostly player inputs the game is sending it tends to suffer most when folk are mashing. It happens sometimes when the connection is weak and an opponent is trying to wriggle out of stun and I'd wager, in that Ryu video, that after their smart VTrigger activation they were mashing hard on Shoryuken, causing the confused rollback.

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Ventured into ranked as I was hungry for more games. It's nice on PC to be able to Alt F4 immediately at the start of a match if someone's teleporting about. I have that as a non-negotiable rule now. No "play it out and see what happens". If it looks really bad right from the start then I'm out. I had one fight where it was fine for the first ten seconds then turned into a hot mess. I lost the first round and felt obligated to win the second round through the lag storm before quitting in case it looked like I was mad. I have never once rage quit a game of Streetfighter and I intend to keep it that way, and I don't want quitting due to unplayable lag to be mistaken for a rage quit either, so these are the lengths I have to go to.

 

Absolutely loving the rematch option. In amongst the rollback and quite a few rage quitters I ended up having some excellent 2/3 sets with good players who were nice enough to grant me the runback after beating me/stick around for a couple more after I beat them. I beat a 6500LP Necalli player and took a ridiculous number of points off him, he beat me in the rematch and then *still* stuck around for the third game and lost even MORE points to me. Games over points, much respect to that man. Even if he stuck around because he was angry I beat him and wanted to prove a point by beating me twice, I'd rather that than people running off into the night to save their precious LP. Games over points people, it's the only way to get better! Amonra, Swiss Necalli, good egg.

 

Also fought a pretty solid Rashid player who had two new gimmicks I will be stealing immediately for my own Rashid. He played me 2/3 as well. Lovely stuff, restores my faith in ranked when you find the good folks out there.

 

Won 20, lost 5, got to 4,000LP and delicious GOLD rank. Heh. I don't play much ranked (just checked my battle log and my last ranked adventure was 18/03/16, this session was about ten times more fun, so things have improved!)  as I am blessed with lots of regular offline sessions and tournaments to attend, but this evening was the best time I've had in the wilds of SFV-live so far.

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I swear I'm opposite man, where I play like utter shite online and do alright off. 

 

Bored of ranked a bit already, going to stick it as far as gold if I can, then it's lobbies as far as the eye can see. 

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On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 11:24 PM, Jonster said:

Turns out I may have set up the discord link with an expiry time. Oops. 

 

This one: https://discord.gg/0viBAEH3zEqRYlb0 should never run out. 

 

Wished more than once that I'd noted this down before the forum disappeared. Ended up playing ranked matches when I eventually got online last night, about which I felt quite grumpy but actually enjoyed in the end. I think the FT2 option just gives me enough time (if I'm paying attention) to identify the particular holes in my Swiss cheese game which are leading me to lose a given match, so it feels like a good way to get quick experience against a lot of different players at the moment.

 

The biggest hole currently is that I press buttons all the time - on wakeup, after an air-to-air that has me landing last, after my opponent's advantageous buttons, you name it. It's like I've forgotten all the hard-won understanding I eventually got in SF4 and have to learn it all again through another few hundred hours of daft losses. Jumping, too. I love jumping. In fact I suspect my problem isn't actually that specific thing about buttons, but rather that I've fallen back into my old worst habit: deciding what to do based on what would be good if it worked, as opposed to thinking about what my opponent is actually likely to do and then selecting my best option accordingly. Which creates my other issue in that I play passively because what would be best would be if my opponent would just do something dumb for me to punish. Why do I think a 3000LP Chun is going to give me something big to punish? She's not, so sitting there like a lemon just gives her all the control she could want.

 

Anyway, instead of just beating myself up all night while other people were quite happily doing that for me, I made quick notes after games about what had most hurt me each game, then hit training mode for the little things and thought about those bigger things above. So I feel like I learned something even though it might not yet be reflected in my play. Or my points...

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, dood said:

 

@JLM TEACH ME TINGS

 

I'm not JLM, and hopefully he writes some stuff about Chun Laura so I can use it too, but here are my tings:

 

Don't jump. Pick one of the games from that set and count how many times you jump or v-skill in neutral play, then count how many times your opponent does. It might not seem like you're taking much damage from all those standing jabs beating your crossups, but look at the situation they leave you in: standing right next to Laura with her having frame advantage and therefore momentum to go with having exactly the positioning she wants when fighting Chun Li. Which brings me to the next point...

 

Stand at the right range. I play this fight, if possible, standing anywhere between the tip of f+MP and the tip of st.HP range. Laura is trying to get in on you so she can grab/kick you, and at this range you can move between several great pokes and counterpokes: f+MP at close range, st.MK a little further out, st.HP the furthest, cr.HK as a whiff punish if she tries anything silly, and importantly cr.MP which brings me to the next point...

 

React to Laura's fireball. If you are standing at the right range (yes, I know you can't just have your preferred range all match in a two player game, not least against Jason!) you should never have to block Laura's fireball, and the moment you see her start it you should cr.MP to hit her legs. Meterless that's not massive damage but it's so important in stopping her getting her pressure going. Once it's on screen she can just walk up to you and your precious optimal range is gone. With meter you get more, which, yes, brings me to the next point...

 

Use your meter! So many rounds ending with two full bars, and 90% of what you did spend going on EX SBK on wakeup, isn't helping you win (not to say you shouldn't EX SBK because you seemed pretty good at choosing when to do it, just that it's not all you should be doing). When you're near stun, use a v-reversal (you did this once or twice). When you land a j.MK, go to crouching jabs instead of cr.MK so you can confirm into EX legs (for extra credit you'd go to light SBK here but that's a separate conversation). When you want pressure, go to v-trigger off a blocked normal. When you.block her wheel kick then she is very unsafe so burn something on punishing that. Until you're consistent with the "real" BnB, make cr.LP, cr.LP xx EX legs your BnB. It should give you time to confirm it (try it in training mode with random block). And most importantly, when you haven't jumped, and you're standing at that optimal range, and as your reward you've succeeded in making Laura throw a bad fireball as a gamble to try and get in, and you've punished it on reaction by hitting her toes with cr.MP, cancel that ting into v-trigger and follow up with all the other tings. Plain EX legs is fine; a combo into light SBK is an option for godlike players who can eyeball the distance and pick the right starting button; super works too. Burn your bar, as the feminist street fighters say. In SFV you get so much of it that it's a real waste to sit on it until the end of a round.

 

I've kind of zeroed in on the biggest bits of advice I wanted to give you there because I wasn't sure how long I had to write it, so sorry if it sounds overly critical! A lot of this stuff I abandon when I'm playing anyway so it's definitely easier said than done, but hopefully it's helpful. And I've played Jason's Laura a lot so I know how rude he is once he gets in your face.

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Heh, cheers man, those are good advices! The majority of which I'm conscious of when theory fighting outside of the game, but -  as well you know -  ohmygod when I'm fighting someone I know is good it all goes out the window and I just revert to sloppy muscle memory that works against a lot of mediocre  online opponents! <_<

 

I do find the 2x cr. LP combos quite tricky, for some reason the cancel is really difficult for me to nail reliably in real matches.  Need to drill some more methinks! I'm getting better at the cr. LP, st. MP, cr. MK  BnB these days too, you just gotta be so close for it to land!  And I've started to try and use my v trigger cancels a lot more often,  though my follow ups need some work!  It does give plenty of time to confirm into even just a raw super on hit, so I should be using those chances!! 

 

Good points re burning meter for more damage when I get chances.  Need to work on my execution to make sure I can nail cr. LP x2 > ex legs whenever I get a chance. And using v reversal when I'm nearly dazed! Man.  I *never* watch the stun meter, whoops.  I feel a bit stumped for follow ups on a v reversal though, isn't the advantage tiny? 

 

And thanks for stating the obvious re Laura's fireball! (really, I hadn't even thought about it lol :()  I need to play against her more so I can learn the animation / sounds & program my reaction to it.  I think Jellum's is the first really good Laura I've played against, so it's like learning a new game, playing vs her! (see also any decent Mika / Fang / Birdie / Rashid, hehe) 

 

And I'll try to stop jumping. I promise. 

 

I keep meaning to drill instant air legs but fuck me it's an awkward move. 

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Yeah you don't really get much after v-reversal with Chun but it resets the distance and drops a bit off your stun bar immediately while also giving you the chance to regroup. At high level you want to also consider whereabouts in the round you are and if you need a full gauge for anything else but right now I think getting in the habit of using the bar is more important than stressing about using it optimally (for both you and myself!).

 

Of course I too am a good player in theory but a bad player in practice so I rarely use it myself.

 

With you on matchups. Early Friday night I lost to a Vega constantly rolling at me so I went and learned how to punish it and then never fought another Vega and probably lost the punish timing again by now. Like you say, practice and experience are as important as knowing the theory.

 

What you said about "fighting someone I know is good" really resonates too. I remember watching Luffy play a match where his opponent let him win round one with no special move other than fireball, and round two with no special move other than drill. He got away with it because his opponent wasn't thinking "this Rose is just throwing fireballs", he was thinking "this Luffy is going to beat me". I've talked to a bunch of people at tournaments about that feeling where you have a 60% life lead on someone who always beats you and you realise after you throw it away that pretty much all you were thinking was "I wonder how he's going to make this comeback this time". I try and focus on the character and the situation and if I do lose go away and make sure there's at least one little tactic I can work on for next time. Hence the anti-fireball advice - it won't stop a good Laura ever getting in but it makes her work for it and also helps you stand at a better range generally.

 

Man I wish I was sleeping and not writing rubbish about street fighter.

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7 hours ago, alistarr said:

 I've talked to a bunch of people at tournaments about that feeling where you have a 60% life lead on someone who always beats you and you realise after you throw it away that pretty much all you were thinking was "I wonder how he's going to make this comeback this time".

 

Oh god, this is so true, and its the worst feeling.

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I've stayed away from ranked for a long time now but I think I'll go back to it as I'd like to make a run for 4000LP which I think is within my capabilities. I do wish I wasn't sitting on a 14 game win streak because I'm sure anyone I play will assume I'm a rage quitter in waiting, when the truth is that I won most of those matches by exploiting Vega stuff people weren't privvy to at the time. :D :blush: One habit that I must get rid of is using Vega's cr.hk as an easy way in and waking up with st.lk. The latter works a lot but I'm sure it's not a good habit. I also never V-reversal, as in I have literally never once used Vega's in a match. I'm not even sure exactly how the timing on it works. 

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Joffo you're definitely harder to play against when you're being disrespectful. 100% true. You have a good eye for surprising and frustrating uppercut timings and your offense is harder to deal with when you go a bit more nutty. I think one of my biggest faults as a player is that I'm too cautious and respectful most of the time, which is why it's been tough picking up Laura early on. I still don't do nearly enough command grabs because I'm too obsessed with the risk/reward and sometimes even worried about looking scrubby if I do it too much. Having the audacity to do things like that is a strength as long as you're able to turn it off at the right moments as well.

 

Yeah we've definitely had the same conversation about expecting a good player to turn the match around on you instead of just thinking "this is pretty much done, just need to close it out" as you would against one of your peers/a weaker player. It's horrible.

 

So yeah, Laura/Chun.

 

Alistarr's advice is really good. Aplogies for repeating some of it but some of his bigger points are the same ones I have.


- Don't let Laura fireball in the neutral. Cr. MP slide under it and also be ready with super. Almost every character has something they can do to stop Laura throwing out a fireball in the neutral and it's something I'll only do if A)The opponent isn't stopping me or B) I just brainfart and forget.Most of the time it shouldn't be an option unless the opponent is also fireballing/building meter/standing at absolutely full screen. With Chun her movement on the ground is so fast that I should never feel comfortable doing it, and if you have super stocked it should be completely off the table.

 

- As Alistarr says, try not to jump and use raw V-skill so much, because if I hit you out of V-skill and you land next to me then you've done the job of getting in for me. I wouldn't use down-towards roundhouse so often either. I think it should mostly be reserved for corner escapes and even then you'll find that V-skill does as good a job or better. I think they've made that move somewhat redundant in SFV and I'm not entirely sure why she still has it. It's quite easyto see and resets the positioning in a way that isn't often in your favour. You ideally want to be pushing me back towards a corner. Constantly switching sides but still staying inside my effective ranges is absolutely fine by me as it works in Laura's favour most of the time.

 

 

- Try to keep in mind that the ground game is yours to win. Chun's walk speed and grounded normals outclass Laura's and I should find myself getting cornered and having to make bigger commitments than you do to stop this happening. My aim is to counter poke and use V-skill to try and sneakily create the spacing I want, but I should be doing that against the tide of your fireballs, buttons and walk speed. It should be Chun controlling the neutral game by default andLaura trying to work around that. My Cr. MK has really good range but is slower than yours, then I have standing MK (knee of doom) and standing roundhouse (amazing counter poke button which nets me all those delicious crush counters). You can operate outside of these or just inside them where your pokes are faster than mine. Standing roundhouse is good for me but it's a bigger commitment to throw out than your buttons. I have to use it and the pay off is igreat if it hits, but if you block it I'm -4, punishable if you've closed the distance quickly and made me throw it out at a closer range than I had intended, but even if it's not I'm negative enough that I probably won't press another button right away and you can take more space.

 

Keep in mind that the knee (standing MK) is fast (6f) and has an amazing hitbox, so I can sneak that in there and it's hard to avoid. If you're pressing too hard you will almost always get hit by it. However, if I don't have V-Trigger there's not much to be done with it. It's negative on block so it's your turn afterwards, cancelling into forwards V-skill is really negative and cancelling into backwards v-skill gives up more space. Worry about it when I'm fullystocked (ideally you want to block it and make me use the v-trigger cancel on block, or apply enough pressure that you make me use a V-reversal and take the option away. Blocked knee into v-trigger still gives me a good situation but

it's not nearly as bad for you as getting hit.

 

 

- LP bolt charge (elbow) is -2 on block and +2 on hit. The general rule is to respect it if it hits but take your turn back if you block. Don't do this 100% of the time as there's always the possibility of the opponent trying to "steal a turn" on -2 if they know you always respond to it in the same way, and by the same token the opponent might try something really audacious with the +2 if they're confidentyou always take the pressure. ut yeah, the majority of the time your response should be Chun's turn if it's blocked, Laura's turn if it hits. The important thing when taking control in a -2 situation like that is to realise that you're not on the back foot any more. A lot of people will mash a couple of jabs and just be happy that they've got out of the pressure, but try to think of it as if you've just made me block a +2 normal. It's me in the mix up now. Again, there isn't a default thing you should do every time, but as an example you could press standing medium punch. This will counter hit me if I try to steal the turn and press jab as we're even on frames but mediums beat jabs, and it leaves you +3 on block, so it really allows you to take the situation by the scruff of the neck and establish pressure.

 

- Laura's up close game, the need to know things are:

- Standing MP +3 on block
- Standling LK +3 on block
- Standing LP +2 on block
- Crouching LP +2 on block
- Crouching MP +2 on block
- EX thunder clap (fireball) +3 on block


So the pressure there is real. She has lots of frame traps and she can create long and scary pressure strings. The key is to keep an eye on her meter and you resources. Also try not to panic, but that's pretty redundant as a piece of written advice.

 

The reason to watch her meter is that, if a frame trap/sequence of normals is blocked, to remain positive and continue pressure she has to cancel into EX thunder clap. If she doesn't do this the pressure will end because whatever string of normals she uses she will ultimately push her out of range, firstly out of range of her command grab so you can tick that off the list of things to worry about, then ultimately out of range for anything else to connect without her taking a risk to close the gap. She'll have to do dash, cancel a normal into forwards V-skill, cancel into backwards v-skill, cancel into LP bolt charge or use one of her normals that has better range to try and catch you running away.

 

All of these options can lead to the end of her pressure:

Normalk cancelled into LP bolt charge: -2 on block
Any thunderclap that isn't EX: -5 on block
Standing MK: -1 on block
Cr. MK: -1 on block
Standing HK: -4 on block
Crouching HK: -12 on block
Normal cancelled into V-skill: Punishable on block
Normal cancelled into backwards V-skill: Gives you a little bit of room to breathe.

 

The first couple of things you block will be real pressure though. There's no easy answer to this. Try to read the opponent's tendencies, check to see if they have EX thunderclap stocked as this will let you know how long they can keep it up for, don't be shy about V-reversalling, also an occasional EX SBK to interrupt pressure if worth it. Keep an eye on your stun, your health, how much I need to go in, how much you can afford to take.

 

With EX SBK, obviously it's always a big risk, but make sure you don't reserve it exclusively for your wake up. Use the block stun from my pressure to make sure you have your charge and watch for patterns in my attack. Look for situations where the opponent has gone for a mix up every time and let them know that you're occasionally willing to make a big read to make them piss off. For instance, as Laura it's really really hard to resist doing something else after the opponent has blocked one of my +3 normals, so occasionally blowing this up and making me slightly less comfortable pressuring you at those times I'd normally have free rein. Similarly, after I see LP bolt charge hit I'm usually just thinking about how I want to mixyou up with my delicious +2 situation, especially when I almost always have to give up my turn when it doesn't hit. A reversal here can really blow up my momentum and is immensely frustrating, especially if it's the first time I've got in for a while or if I have a life deficit to make up. Instead of me thinking "is he going to take the grab or is he going to get hit" I also have to consider "maybe he won't take either of them". Introducing that variable is crucial, despite the risk involved on your end. Try and make it so I have to think about your resources, the life situation etc. and second guess myself when pressuring you. The up close game is where Laura excels and there are times where youhave to just take it and make guesses to survive, but there are things you can do to make life more difficult for her, so try and defend yourself with these in mind.

 

EX SBK generally can be used to nip things in the bud as well. Working on the basis that Chun is controlling that match up, look for situations where you can use it to frustrate me when I'm eager to get my offense started. For instance. If I've taken a load of pressure, haven't had a turn for a while and then you do EX legs on block, I am very likely indeed to press a button here to try and get my stuff started. Reversalling out of a negative situation (lame trapping,as we have dubbed it) is risky and seems very scrubby and gimmicky if it doesn't work, but there are special occasions where it's the right thing to do or at least an acceptable risk. Obviously don't go to it very often. What I'm saying

though, is that you can make an educated guess and find times where it's actually a smarter option than you'd think and is likely to work. Make me aware that you *might* do it, especially in a long set where we've had time for patterns to become established and you might need to throw in something like that to keep me on my toes.

 

A good example of this is a recent FT10 I had against SFO Savant's Chun Li (we do this all the time, which is why I have a lot of Chun/Laura theory fighter for you here :)). Over many many games against him I have picked up on the points during his V-trigger pressure where he likes to use Hazanshu. Chun's trigger pressure is scary, so I'm looking out for this as it's -2 and is often the best opportunity to get out of it. After about seven games of me blocking almost every one of them and jabbing/taking control each time, he did V-trigger Hazanshu (blocked) - > EX SBK. It was damn near guaranteed to hit, it allowed him to steal the turn and it also meant that I couldn't be quite as autopilot about taking the turn back in that situation if he had meter, particularly if I was at a health/stun point where I can't afford to take the SBK. It doesn't shut me down completely, but again, giving the opponent pause for thought when you see that they have a set response to something is important.

 

- Slide into V-trigger is really good. It's so good that a majority of Chun players will get fixated on fishing for it as soon as they have V-trigger stocked. Don't do this, but definitely keep it in mind as it lets you get into V-trigger with a combo on hit, so you get better value out of the cancel than doing it from a blocked standing fierce, for instance. You can do a full combo into SBK if you're close enough, but even at max range you can do raw EX legs or even super.

 

- Agreed with Alistarr about using meter. It is there to be used in this game. It only takes three bars to get your super and EX legs is so useful. Extra damage on the end of your combos, safe on block, reliably connects from ranges other things won't for easy jab confirms, scores a knockdown. Very strong move and you'll build a bar back in no time at all. She has really nice damaging combo extensions with EX fireball as well that are usually worth a bar. Also worth doing EX fireballs inside my EX shoulder range from time to time to put me off elbowing through your fireballs whenever I have a bar. I will always be looking for this as it gets my game started for nothing, but your EX fireball will beat the armour clean.

 

- Do longer strings into fireball on block if you're not sure how to end a pressure string or are struggling with instant air legs. You never want to do regular legs on block. The'yre all punishable and even if I miss the punish you're in a bad situation. Stuff like Cr. HP - > EX fireball - > cr. jab - > cr. MK - > regular fireball. This pushes you back to the spacing where you can standing LK anti-air and put up pokes if people try to walk in on you. Cr.MK xx fireball isn't a true block string, but the spacing/low recovery on the fireball means you can still anti-air if they jump out of it. It's interruptable but you can test the opponent to see if they're doing that.

 

- All of that said, it really does pay to practise instant air legs to get the most out of Chun. Easier said than done and it seems like an obvious point, but it is such a powerful option and really isn't too bad if you spend some time on it. You will miss it (Sako misses it, therefore regular humans will also miss it) but I think it needs to be in your tool set at least occasionally to do work with Chun.

 

- You still have good frame traps without it though. A really important thing to practise is cr. jab/stand jab/standing MP (blocked) and then frame trap with back + HP. Causes a juggle state on counter hit and you can cancel into V-trigger to do nasty juggle combos. The back + HP is +2 on block anyway, so there's very little downside to it.


- A very specific bit of anti-Laura tech for this match up in particular is that Chun's crouching hurtbox is a nightmare for Laura. My standing MP will frequently whiff on crouching Chun after a cross up, and standing MP (blocked) into crouching MP frame trap doesn't work on crouching Chun in the right hand corner as the crouching MP won't connect. I've been messing around with that in training mode and just found out about a problem this causes. If I do standing MP (blocked) then crouching MP into EX fireball (also blocked), the crouching MP into fireball isn't a blockstring. This is only the case against crouching Chun. She can press crouching light kick and hit Laura to make the fireball go away, or she can slide clean under it with cr. MP and do a V-trigger combo. That's one of Laura's best pressure strings and it doesn't work on chun. That's going in my match up notes. It's all quite situational and specific but if you play the match quite a lot you'll notice things whiffing and little gaps here and there. Something to watch for generally whilst playing as Chun as she makes herself so small when she crouches.

 

That's some stuffs for now. Hope that's helpful. :)  

 

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Oh, and when attacking Laura, remember she doesn't have anything on wake up that beats grabs outside of wake up super. Her armoured wake up loses to meaty attacks as well, and when you're in v-trigger all of your two hitting buttons will beat the armour too. Mix up throws, counter hits, but if in doubt if you go for grab on my wake up I can't really do anything about it but tech or make a big read. Guessing between grab/back + HP/instant air legs when under Chun pressure is horrible in this match up.

 

Lastly, one other little thing that a lot of Chuns don't use is that Back + HP in V-trigger negates fireballs. If I do a fully charged fireball or EX fireball, you can do Back + HP cancelled into EX fireball to negate all three hits and still send one hit of your fireball back at me. Very situational, but EX fireballs are really powerful for Laura, so getting rid of one is a big win. If I haven't had the time to charge up all three hits of a regular fireball then V-trigger back +HP will just snuff them out for free as well, so you can get rid of them without charging your own fireball.

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@JLM Thanks for the mini essay! :D Much appreciated, will digest and take on board.  My SFign is gonna take a back seat for a short while thanks to Dark Souls 3, but I'm intending on keeping on top of my training!  Will work on the instant air legs. 

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GGs WIllei, I think my internet has just given out as that first round of the last game there was a teleporty nightmare. Was trying to come up with punishes for Birdie's towards fierce on the fly as it's -7 but nothing seemed to work. Checking the old Vframes I can actually sweep or crouching MK punish it, it just feels like you'd need to use something faster when it's happening. Also months of playing against Birdie and playing against arguably the best Birdie in the UK has still not made me any less free to Bull Revenger. I don't think I'll ever get used to it. The sequence of tick bull revenger, tick bull revenger, up chain was lovely. Felt like a right chump.

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