Another ZX Spectrum device indiegogo fundraiser

[JPickford]

Just now, Camel said:

Wasn't the C64 Mini meant to be a C64 Maxi though, which is apparently still WIP?

 

Yeah.  Not sure what the problem with that is though.   He gave everyone a free mini which I think shows he's on the up.

[Camel]

Fair point.  I guess I'm just pointing out that the thing people were backing hasn't actually been delivered yet, but there's nothing to suggest it won't be.

[jackfrost71]

I think pretty much everyone in the Democracy group, now sees the light

[SeanR]

even Thomas Eberle is turning on RCL

 

 

you might remember Thomas from that time he posted this photo of Lee and reframed the context for comedy purposes

 

 

and I'm too scared to look at the indiegogo campaign page.

 

[MajorRob]

16 minutes ago, JPickford said:

 

Yeah.  Not sure what the problem with that is though.   He gave everyone a free mini which I think shows he's on the up.

Unlike RCL, they didn't reach their original funding target on Indiegogo so the plan is for the retail sales of the mini to provide the additional capital needed to make the full size 64.

[SeanR]

also:

 

https://clivehelpus.website/refund

Quote

119 backers have requested refunds totalling £14655

 

isn't that more than Lee earned in the year of shilling for RCL, as show on the verified bank statements?

[Lorfarius]

BBC article!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44381247

 

Sky does own some of the intellectual property rights involved, since it owns Amstrad, which acquired Sinclair's marketing and merchandising rights in 1986.

However, a spokeswoman for the firm denied it had held up deliveries.

[jackfrost71]

The C64 campaign went a million times better than the Vega+ campaign, no doubt.  But outside that comparison, it's hard to rate the C64 campaign other than bad.

It was a campaign with flexible funding, that means you have the funding/investors so that if the campaign only raised 1 cent, you still have the funding to deliver.
Of course that did not happen and over a year late they finally got an investor which allowed them to provide backers a mini C64 with the promise that those who backed a full sized C64 will get that also in the future when it's developed

Those who ordered a portable C64, they get a mini and I think a full size C64 when they get to developing it

 

It's no where near as bad as RCL, but in of itself, the campaign would still be rated as bad

[SeanR]

30 minutes ago, jackfrost71 said:

I think pretty much everyone in th emocracy group now sees the light

 

 

Quote

You hear that RCL?…That is the sound of inevitability…It is the sound of your death…Goodbye, RCL…

 

(no doubt that'll be uses as an example of the death threads made against RCL and it's agents, rather that a misappropiated quote from the Matrix to point to the demise of the company and the zx vega plus campaign)

[JPickford]

I think it's more about the integrity of the people behind the campaigns.   These things can and will fail - we all know that.  Vega+ didn't fail financially - they raised enough money to make the product and a profit.   Levy got greedy and forced out the only directors with relevant skills and wasted the money by paying himself and persuing pointless lawsuits.

Andrews made the best of the situation with the C64 and is seemingly still going to make the full size machine whilst compensating the backers with free mini.

 

For some reason he's trying to get control of RCL back which makes me thing he has a plan to sort out the mess.

[jackfrost71]

A new statement by David Levy

 

Statement by Dr David Levy, Chairman of Retro Computers Ltd 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

6th June 2018

Indiegogo have today released a statement. Contrary to what they claim in this we suggested that we demonstrate a unit to their London based representative in order to expedite one of the points they have requested us to address. Their response, without further contact or clarification, was to issue the statement from which we quote below, which is a distortion of our response. Indiegogo state:

"This week, we will be working with a collections agency to attempt to recoup funds disbursed, in an effort to be able to refund backers. Please note that, while we are pursuing collections, this process can take considerable time and the Vega+ team still has the opportunity to fulfill on their obligation of shipping the consoles to backers. "

Our current position is that we are still determined to deliver to backers and have this morning received a number of messages from backers asking us not to give up. It is clear, and has been clear to us for some time, that the vast majority of backers are very alive to the true problem, which is not the current board of Retro Computers Ltd, but the carnage that was left behind and the subsequent actions of the two ex-directors, Paul Andrews and Chris Smith, who created a rival company with an almost identical name - Retro Games Ltd - and who have themselves created a rival project ( a retro version of the Commodore 64). Their own Indiegogo campaign followed ours by only 6 weeks, but has yet to show any evidence at all of creating any of the products for which their campaign attracted some $100,000 in backing. They continued to sell those products from their corporate web site even though they knew that they woud not be producing it. Instead they have produced an alternative lower cost product, one which comes with a joystick that many backers have said breaks easily.

As we repeatedly point out, the vast majority of our backers for the Vega+ are supportive of us and want us to deliver their Vega+. Paul Andrews & Co have launched a petition for backers who wish to have a refund instead of waiting for their Vega+, and according to the web site for that petition there are only 111 backers, out of more than 4,700, who are requesting a refund, and some of those 111 had already been refunded before submitting their names to the petition. (We shall be naming them in dure course.)

Statements such as today's one from Indiegogo are, of course, highly destabilizing for our company and the Vega+ project. Indiegogo have admitted to us that they have been in frequent communication with Paul Andrews, our company's former Managing Director who has been attempting for the past two years to bring about the demise of our company and the Vega+ project, while at the same time publicly professing to wish the company and the project well. Sadly, as a result of Mr Andrews' actions, Indiegogo have seen fit to make this and earlier statements which have poured oil on the flames and made it more difficult for us to deliver the Vega+ project. Far from helping their backers to receive the Vega+, Indiegogo's statements have had the opposite effect, by worrying some of our suppliers

What has happened in the past few days is that Indiegogo asked for proof that we are ready to ship the product and requested that we send them a unit to their San Francisco office. We responded yesterday saying that we would sooner give a demonstration of a unit to their UK representative, and asking Indiegogo to request that he contact us to fix an appointment. Their reaction was this latest statement.

As Indiegogo say, the process they are trying to put in place will take considerable time, and clearly we can forestall it by starting to ship the Vega+ to backers. They point out, in this statement, that the Vega+ team still has the opportunity to fulfill on their obligations of shipping the console to backers, which is exactly what we are striving to do.

We have no doubt that Paul Andrews will continue, with the help of his cohorts, to do whatever he can to cause Retro Computers Ltd and the Vega+ project to crash. He is under investigation for various of the actions he has taken against our company and against the Vega+ team individually. A few days ago we received the first evidence obtained by a team of forensic accountants who are investigating Mr Andrews' longtime friend and business associate Nicholas Cooper, who Mr Andrews recommended be appointed our company's first sales agent, but who subsequently misappropriated a substantial amount in sales revenues which were due to our company from sales of the original Vega product. . That evidence shows that Mr Cooper had a substantial gambling habit, which we believe could have provided at least part of his motivation for misappropriating our company's funds. During the period when Retro Computers Ltd was pursuing Mr Cooper and his company Cornerstone Media International Ltd through the courts, Mr Andrews (and Mr Smith, our company's former Technical Director) attempted unsuccessfully to assist in Mr Cooper's defence, by writing letters he could use in court to show that Mr Andrews and Mr Smith did not want Retro Computers Ltd to pursue Cooper/Cornerstone for the misappropriated money. Why they should not want Retro Computers Ltd, in which they each own 25% of the equity, to recover the misappropriated money, is something which is still under investigation.

For the avoidance of doubt I wish to make it clear that the Retro Computers Ltd team is doing everything we can to start shipping the Vega+ to backers, and we expect to succeed unless we are prevented by the damage done by Paul Andrews and the latest Indiegogo statement.

London, June 6th 2018

[Goose]

Nothing appears to be their fault, does it? Everything is Andrews' fault. Blame blame blame.

 

And still no pictures, no boxes, no consoles. None of the issues have any bearing on them being able to produce the console. 

[jackfrost71]

Of course the crunch is this.  They have used the excuse of game licences being held back for a long time now.  And in all that time most backers have asked that they send the console without games.  Indeed their own poll shows the vast majority of backers would be happy with  just the console - at least it's something

Yet nothing.  They could start shipping tommorow to satisfy the bulk of backers - but they don't.  They could show pictures like everyone asks  - yet they don't.

They continue to use the game licensing excuse when even there own polls show it's no longer a valid excuse not to ship.  

Just sad

[Vimster]

They have to just post a pic, one picture, that would ease most of the grief they're getting. They can't do that. They're done.

[jackfrost71]

Let's not forget that the excuse they used ie Sky holding them up, has now been refuted by Sky , who said it wasn't true. 

 

So much BS, it's incredible

[Spacehost]

Did that Levy guy just say he thinks Nicholas Cooper has a gambling problem and is embezzling money to fund it? Isn’t that extremely libellous?

[maryliddon]

4 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

Did that Levy guy just say he thinks Nicholas Cooper has a gambling problem and is embezzling money to fund it? Isn’t that extremely libellous?

 

Pretty much though small beans compared to saying he's a thief who stole money from RCL

[maryliddon]

I like this new statement though; RCL confirm they're reading the REFUND ME PLEASE list on https://clivehelpus.website/refunds-list and know which of the backers they haven't refunded.

 

Nice to see an endorsement from RCL that this is the place to ask for a refund

[Dudley]

46 minutes ago, Vimster said:

They have to just post a pic, one picture, that would ease most of the grief they're getting. They can't do that. They're done.

 

Yep, at this point the only reason not to have shown one of the new units is that they don't exist.

[ulala]

This is an excellent exercise of what happens when you believe your own lies

[jackfrost71]

Jan must have woken up, as he has now deleted all of the posts by people who simply asked Suzanne for a pic of the Vega+ to stay their concerns over the IGG announcement.  Also most new posts have been locked.  Plus he has kicked a few people out of the group.  Down to 194 including himself and Suzanne

 

Soon he will be talking to himself and Suzanne who will be the only members he didn't boot.

[SeanR]

another 20 refund requests since the new RCL statement...

 

STREISAND!

[SeanR]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/06/indiegogo_ponders_retro_computers_debt_collectors/

 

Quote

The Register has seen a copy of RCL's bank account statements that were filed as evidence in the successful refund court case mentioned above. Its published accounts, as held by Companies House, state the firm had capital and reserves of £433,008 on 30 March 2017, with total assets stated as being worth £760,945. The company bank account for that date had a stated balance of £1,210.31.

 

[deKay]

[Lorfarius]

 

[JPickford]

Cracked me up.

[AceGrace]

Especially the Dalek bit 

[InUpDown]

 backers asking IGG about their refund are still saying they're being told to "contact the campaign owner". great...

[jackfrost71]

If people haven't already, I suppose it's worth asking for a refund so at least it's on record.  That said, I think this will eventually end up in court with RCL trying to bring in Andrews/Smith  as defendants, as they said they would try to do.

[SeanR]

28 minutes ago, jackfrost71 said:

If people haven't already, I suppose it's worth asking for a refund so at least it's on record.  That said, I think this will eventually end up in court with RCL trying to bring in Andrews/Smith  as defendants, as they said they would try to do.

 

indeed, but

 

Quote

... if there is any legal action against the company and/or its current directors, then Paul Andrews will be brought in as a co-defendant, since he was the owner of the Indiegogo campaign, and both he and Smith were the root cause of RCL's problems.

 

is the rambling of a demented fool. They resigned as directors, of a LIMITED company, prior to the receipt of funds from the IGG campaign.