Blade Runner 2049

[Jammy]

What the bloody hell happened to Jared Leto ? I thought he was being positioned for a big finale and he just disappeared. Same as the Resistance.

[Calashnikov]

21 minutes ago, Alan Stock said:

 

 

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We've discussed this idea of there being some connection with daughter and AI a little. Someone else put forward your idea about the daughter being a fake to mobilise the replicants. I think its a cool theory but there's a plenty of evidence the baby did exist. Mind you in the world of Bladerunner almost anything can be fabricated. If she was a fake, then a lot of the replicant rebels and Deckard would have to be in on it, in an even more convoluted coverup than the one we uncover during the film. 

 

 

Re: the globe, I didn't cotton onto the snowglobe comparisons until you said it. Plenty of symbolism there and maybe that was the intention with that final scene.
 

 

 

 

Cheers. It did since occur to me that Deckard would surely have been around Rachel whenever she was showing. He knew she was pregnant, right? So there definitely 100% was a child born of replicant, and snowglobe girl was no A.I. fabrication.

[kerraig UK]

Interestingly I think the new movie has more of a Vangelis blueprint that the original movie does. That probably sounds nuts but I reckon I could prove it with youtube vids easy enough. The new film is all electronic reverberation on a melodic scale. It's almost impossible to differentiate score from soundscape. The original film has very very little Vangelis atmos. Surprisingly little in fact. I know i'm not the best advocate being that I think the original is overrated tosh, but I watched it last month on Imax with a genuine fan and even he stated that the score was noticeably absent.

[Alan Stock]

Yeah having watched the original only a few days ago, the score mostly only kicks in when there are cityscape shots. It's pretty minimal compared to the ever-present drones of 2049, which I thought was a great soundtrack overall.

[MrSpiggott]

1 hour ago, CS2x said:

What do people here make of the accusations of sexism and misogyny being directed towards the film? When looking it up today (not in relation to that question at all) I noticed that was a rising tide of negative articles and responses pointing out that the patriarchy was 'alive and well' in Blade Runner's future. 

 

As I shared earlier I was so positively mesmerised by the film (as was my wife, incidentally) that I didn't notice there were any issues here. The portrayal of virtual women made sense in light of the kind of dystopia the film was painting. Still, I'm not well versed in the more involved feminist critiques that can come against a film like this and would be interested in any alternative perspectives on this 'problem'! (As there doesn't seem to be any responses in defence of it so far - unless I've missed them.)

Of course it's sexist.

This is a broken, dieing world perfectly comfortable with concept of slavery. There's unbelievable amounts of poverty and abuse so for there to be no sexism would be at odds with the world. 

[Pob]

6 minutes ago, MrSpiggott said:

Of course it's sexist.

This is a broken, dieing world perfectly comfortable with concept of slavery. There's unbelievable amounts of poverty and abuse so for there to be no sexism would be at odds with the world. 

The film being sexist and the world it's portraying being sexist are two very different things though. I don't think the feminist readings are arguing that LA in 2049 is a sexist place.

[kerraig UK]

It's more racist than sexist. Not 'in world'. In it's casting and painting of a west coast dystopia.

[Pob]

It's just not very diverse, especially compared to the original, seems to be the thrust of the articles I've read/seen. Can't argue with that. There are plenty of female characters but none of them have much agency. Lt Joshi is probably the strongest but she's not it in much.

[kerraig UK]

1 minute ago, Pob said:

It's just not very diverse, especially compared to the original, seems to be the thrust of the articles I've read/seen. Can't argue with that. There are plenty of female characters but none of them have much agency. Lt Joshi is probably the strongest but she's not it in much.

Nah I think it's worse than that. Same as the original. There's a bunch of foreign language all over stuff. Print, holo, projections, but without any reasoning for it. Like, Japanese is everywhere, but there are no Japanese people. I believe this is called cultural appropriation. We don't care in the original because thats just what happened in the 80's. But in this one it jumps out a mile.

And I LOVE this movie. But it's not getting a pass.

[womblingfree]

Saw this yesterday and loved it. The Godfather 2 of sci-fi sequels really.

 

What's worrying is the unresolved...

 

Spoiler

disappearance of Jared Leto and the Resistance.

 

...which makes me terrified we're due a Matrix style third instalment. Still, if it's the same team that made this then we're in pretty good hands.

 

As for box-office. So what? Blade Runner didn't set the World on fire on release either but has made bijillons over the years.

 

Oh yeah, and saw it in iMax 3d, which was actually worth doing for a change.

 

[ngchol]

Although the sound design/soundtrack/score of 2049 is wonderful, I don't think it's comparable to the emotional impact of the sound design/soundtrack/score from the original film. Perhaps that will change in time. I strongly recommend listening to the Esper "Retirement Edition" version of the original (it's on youtube) - it's more or less the entire film with the dialogue removed, along with the unused pieces which feature on the official version of the soundtrack, and for me it's one of the greatest pieces of ambient music ever conceived.

[womblingfree]

As pointed out by Red Letter Media, this movie actually nicks wholesale a plot-point from Star Trek Voyager.

[kerraig UK]

7 minutes ago, ngchol said:

Although the sound design/soundtrack/score of 2049 is wonderful, I don't think it's comparable to the emotional impact of the sound design/soundtrack/score from the original film. Perhaps that will change in time. I strongly recommend listening to the Esper "Retirement Edition" version of the original (it's on youtube) - it's more or less the entire film with the dialogue removed, along with the unused pieces which feature on the official version of the soundtrack, and for me it's one of the greatest pieces of ambient music ever conceived.

 

Noone is arguing that the score outside the film is amazing. But watch the original film (any version) and the score is actually a bit disappointing. 

Hit me with a scene if you disagree.

[Calashnikov]

10 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

 

Noone is arguing that the score outside the film is amazing. But watch the original film (any version) and the score is actually a bit disappointing. 

Hit me with a scene if you disagree.

 

 

1:02, when at the moment of realisation, the despondent Rachel finishes off Deckard's description of her spider "memory" and that off-kilter, spooky little piano comes in, not quite organic, yet utterly fragile and beautiful.

[kerraig UK]

God yeah, stunning. But I bet you this little Tom Waits cast off is not what people are discussing when they talk about the original score. And it is not a tenth of the brilliance of the new score.

[K]

I didn't think BR2049 was particularly sexist as a film, but then again, it's not really my call. There seemed to be a number of rounded female characters whose roles weren't defined by their gender, like Luv and Lieutenant Joshi. The idea of the "strong female character" is a cliche and a bit of a red herring, but they were shown as competent and as having agency. Luv having her nails done while ordering an orbital strike could be perceived as being a little bit stereotyped, but that's a stretch I think. The leader of the resistance wasn't really in the film enough to flesh out her character, but she was a prominent woman who had a direct effect on the plot.

 

Some of the other characters were arguably a bit sexist. Joi's a stereotyped subservient female partner who flicks between housewife, party girl, manic pixie dream hologram, and wildcat. There's hints of her subverting that role but not very many. Her role makes total sense in the context of the film and the story - she's an intangible companion for a fake person, in a society that oppressively fetishises womens bodies - but I guess the problem is that the male director and the male scriptwriters created that story and that world. It makes perfect sense that Joi is this demure, idealised idea of a woman, but the filmmakers could easily have changed her character to make her drive the plot more, or for her to subvert her role as K's wifey more overtly. They didn't - and also chose to portray a systemically sexist environment by having giant holographic naked women's boobs and bottoms all over the place. I can see why women would find that sexist - "You don't understand - I'm criticising the patriarchy by having naked women feature prominently in my film" is not an argument that cuts much ice, even if it's made sincerely.

 

The same goes for having one of the film's female characters be a prostitute. Like, you can argue that this is an realistic portrayal of a society that dehumanises certain segments of the population, but there are probably other ways of putting this idea across than using really hot prostitutes to drive the plot. The male characters in the film are subject to humiliating, dehumanising ordeals, but not in the same way as either Joi or the prostitute character. The fact that I can't remember her name is probably relevant as well. I don't think  the film is sexist in itself, but the choices the filmmakers made reflect certain systemic biases and privileges.

[Calashnikov]

15 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

God yeah, stunning. But I bet you this little Tom Waits cast off is not what people are discussing when they talk about the original score. And it is not a tenth of the brilliance of the new score.

 

Whit? Personally speaking, that little piano is actually the single most significant motif, be it image, sound or concept, that instantly pops into my head whenever I hear the words "Blade Runner". It gets across with sound what the whole idea behind the story is. Something that appears to be so human, yet simultaneously being utterly unusual and different. The new score is some droning Hans Zimmer perfunctoriness. It does a fine job, but it's no 'Memories of Green'. Come on tae fuck.

[kerraig UK]

1 minute ago, Calashnikov said:

 

Whit? Personally speaking, that little piano is actually the single most significant motif, be it image, sound or concept, that instantly pops into my head whenever I hear the words "Blade Runner". It's gets across with sound what the whole idea behind the story is. Something that appears so human, yet is somehow so unusual. The new score is some droning Hans Zimmer perfunctoriness. It does a fine job, but it's no 'Memories of Green'. Come on tae fuck.

So for me that says it all. Because most public memories of the original score and the wider opinion of vangelis is that it is an electronic synthesised tonal musical impression. And even on release Memories of Green stood out as one of the 'studio tracks' amongst an otherwise electronic epoch. 

I do not with to malign the Vangelis score in any way by the by. I love the score. I'm just pointing out that when you watch the film there's only snippets in there, and some of the best parts are not at all what we remember as being what we love. And your favourite cut was singles out even at the time as not being indicative of the overall score.

[Calashnikov]

But the moment that it comes in on that dialogue in that scene packs a real emotional chokeslam to the dick. That's what a musical score is all about. 'Memories of Green' sounds beautiful when you listen to the track in its entirety, separated from the imagery on the OST, sure, but it's doubly more so powerful within the context of the film.

[ngchol]

36 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

 

Noone is arguing that the score outside the film is amazing. But watch the original film (any version) and the score is actually a bit disappointing. 

Hit me with a scene if you disagree.

 

If you've got the final cut to hand, the music/sound design in the scene in Deckard's apartment after Leon's death, from where Rachael says "I'm not in the business. I am the business" (about 1:04 through to 1:08, at which point the love theme begins) is, I think, exceptionally beautiful.

[Calashnikov]

I love the scenes in Deckard's apartment, btw. He's tanning cheap whisky and he's got TWO Charles Rennie Mackintosh chairs in his furniture collection, while music sampled by Theo Parrish plays in the background. Takes me back to my Glasgow School of Art days.

[kerraig UK]

6 minutes ago, ngchol said:

 

If you've got the final cut to hand, the music/sound design in the scene in Deckard's apartment after Leon's death, from where Rachael says "I'm not in the business. I am the business" (about 1:04 through to 1:08, at which point the love theme begins) is, I think, exceptionally beautiful.

That is my favourite cue in the entire film. It's beautiful.

 

I am not fighting the 'I am right' corner. I just feel that the sequel does about 75% of everything better, Including soundscape. There is some stiff in there that is genuinely nightmarish and breath stealing. I think history will be kind to this score.

Fuck man though I can't wait to hear the shit they binned. I wonder if that was just a Blade Runner thing.

[Calashnikov]

Looking forward to hopefully one day seeing the inevitable fan re-edit that includes El-P's rejected soundtrack:

 

 

[Down by Law]

Its on nearly 100mil now worldwide after a week with some major markets to go. I think China will lap this up. It probably won't make much money in the grand scheme of things but it's certainly not a flop. This is a flop:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=kingarthur2016.htm

[JPickford]

Does anyone know the story behind the appearance the Jawa's in the original film.  Presumably it's a deliberate reference to Star Wars.

[ZOK]

3 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

 

The OST to the original is mint. But so little is used in the actual film that it's another one o dem sacred cows

I'll giyan example. Listen to how straight up shit this cut is

 

 

 

It’s interesting you posted this scene. I just rewatched it, and I am happy to confirm there isn’t a single second of 2049 as well written, performed, or simply evocative as that little bit.

 

It’s just not as good a film, unless you choose view it solely from the perspective of visual spectacle, where it is superior.

[SpagMasterSwift]

I liked the bit when K’s boss started macking on him and he got all uncomfortable - not sure where that scene sits in the view of the film being sexist.

[Death's Head]

The parts in Vegas with those huge statues and the holograms of Marilyn and Elvis gave me massive J G Ballard vibes - particularly from Hello America. Ditto for the giant holograms in LA which recall the giant holographic cowboys from that novel. There was something about that landscape, as well, that felt very Ballardian.

[gone fishin]

4 hours ago, JPickford said:

Does anyone know the story behind the appearance the Jawa's in the original film.  Presumably it's a deliberate reference to Star Wars.

It’s all part of the  same Sci-Fi/ Stout Cinematic Universe, like one big 40 year long joke that messes up nerds and rugby players

 

Let me explain...

 

Soldier(linked to Blade Runner - they also mention tenhauser gate in it)

 

”Soldier was written by David Peoples, who co-wrote the script for Blade Runner. Peoples considers Soldier to be a "spin-off sidequel"-spiritual successor to Blade Runner, seeing both films as existing in a shared fictional universe.[4] The film obliquely refers to various elements of stories written by Philip K. Dick(who wrote the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, on which Blade Runner is based), or film adaptations thereof. A Spinnerfrom Blade Runner can be seen in the wreckage on a junk planet in the film.[“

 

Blade Runner linked to Prometheus/Alien

 

 

Predator linked to Alien through Weyland Yutani in Alien v Predator: Requiem

 

”In the finale of Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Colonel Stevens meets with a woman named Ms. Yutani, offering her a Predator Plasma Cannon ..”

 

Blade Runner linked to Star Wars through the Jawas (as you mentioned) 

 

ET linked to Star Wars with them appearing in the senate

 

 

 

Roy Batty appearing in the Guinness adverts

 

 

 

Totally crazy, but yeah - George Lucas has been secretly influencing all of the sci-fi and stout output for the last 40 years...

 

(you could also link Blade Runner to James Bond, blink and you’ll miss Roy Batty in this one)

 

. But that’s for the real conspiracy nut jobs.

 

 

 

 

 

[Down by Law]

I did like that the giant off world scrap machines were the same ones or very similar to the ones in Soldier.