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Blade Runner 2049

englishbob

By englishbob,
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Triple A

Triple A

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Alan Stock said:

Re: Wishdoktor

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Interesting theory about Joi controlled by the daughter, but I don't recall Joi doing much to steer K except giving him general moral support.

 

 

 

The daughter's job is to make memories - so, she doesn't make Joi. Someone of a different or higher remit in Wallace's organisation having Joi influence K, now that I can buy.

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Triple A

Triple A

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31 minutes ago, Alan Stock said:

 

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Joe is intended to be a decoy to throw the scent off the daughter. That's why he's implanted with the memories.

 

 

Is this meant to be sarcastic? Sorry if I'm missing something and if I come across snippy - I don't intend to and honestly want to know, as I thought this was the most obvious intention/agenda in any case (and not be any sort of sub/'true'-agenda).

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Alan Stock

Alan Stock

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12 minutes ago, Triple A said:

Is this meant to be sarcastic? Sorry if I'm missing something and if I come across snippy - I don't intend to and honestly want to know, as I thought this was the most obvious intention/agenda in any case (and not be any sort of sub/'true'-agenda).

No sarcasm, I had just never considered that take on it. I was puzzling over the fact that if Joe had been the only one implanted with the memories, what the reason for that was. I thought at first it was a way for the daughter to get someone else to hunt down her father, as she's sealed away (which is still a plausible explanation), but the decoy thing seems to fit better.

 

Re: Wishdokta - true dat. Maybe there is a connection between them after all, if you consider the final scene. There may not be enough evidence to confirm it but the creators might have wanted that to be one possible interpretation.

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DeciderVT

DeciderVT

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1 hour ago, K said:

You could have cut a fair bit out of this film without really damaging it. The whole sequence where K's car gets harpooned could have been excised fairly easily. That said, I'm glad it's in there - it's a bit like the sentry gun segment from Aliens, in that the film works perfectly well without it, but it's still very cool.

 

Spoiler

It was a bit of a laboured setup to show that Luv was tracking K though.

 

I'd love to see a cut of the film that trims the fat. The ponderous pace in places didn't really succeed in establishing the compelling atmosphere Villeneuve seemed to be aiming for.

 

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Alan Stock

Alan Stock

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I love that if you listen to Kermode's review, even though Ridley Scott said that Deckard is a replicant in Bladerunner, Ford argued with him and said "we never actually established that", and they still argue about it even now.

 

I kind of hope they don't make another sequel, I would love to see more of the world but I feel like they've explored the concept enough now.

 

Its certainly a slow paced film but it lets you soak in the atmosphere and visuals, and think about the concepts. When I watched Bladerunner just before this film, I was struck by how fast paced that plot moves, even though it's a long film. This one feels much more sedate but I reckon it would lose something if you started chopping away at it. I could have watched scenes from that world for hours more, it's so gorgeous. Except maybe the casino which did drag on a bit too long.

 

Talking of which, I loved when Joe hits the tripwire when he's hiding from Deckard though, that made me jump!

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Alan Stock

Alan Stock

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Yeah that's a very good point Gmass.

After all why would you let your decoy become a Bladerunner who not only hunts down replicants but might also reveal the child to the authorities if he figured out the real truth? If I was the daughter or the rebels, I'd snuff out K if he was the decoy as soon as I knew he was on the trail. And the rebels leave him be, they just observe him.

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ZOK

ZOK

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, K said:

You could have cut a fair bit out of this film without really damaging it. The whole sequence where K's car gets harpooned could have been excised fairly easily. That said, I'm glad it's in there - it's a bit like the sentry gun segment from Aliens, in that the film works perfectly well without it, but it's still very cool.

 

Cut out one of the best bits?!

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Ferine

Ferine

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Posted
7 hours ago, Alan Stock said:

 

So noone has any more ending theories to explain these things?:

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What the final scene with the daughter in the snow signifies? Is it her seeing what Joe sees? Is there another connection besides memory we don't know? Is she linked to Joi or holograms with the connection of the twirling hands catching the snowflakes?

 

 

Spoiler

I don't think the snow implies any direct connection, the shared reaction to the weather by K, Joi and Ana is just another example of how thin the line between the different forms of life is.

 

The film shows a world that's totally internalised a hierarchy of human > replicant > AI. However, as is shown by K's actions — and reactions — later in the film, that divide is the true artifice: his capacity for humanity was always there, it was the constant reinforcement of a world that saw him as less numbing him to it. I think that is how Wallace's replicants were 'controlled', not through computer chips or short lifespans, but relentless brainwashing in the form of arbitrary baseline tests. This lie is so convincing, so omnipresent, that K feels no need to question that he is less until he glimpses the possibility of being special.

 

In some ways I feel like 2049 is a reaction to the incessant debate about whether Deckard is a replicant or not. The film deliberately doesn't take a position on that argument, and I don't think it's about preserving the original's mystery so much as pointing out how little the label actually matters.

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kerraig UK

kerraig UK

Posted
Posted

Just back from second viewing and I think it is simply staggering. Not quite there with Tarkovsky or Kubrick, but above Nolan and Spielberg. And far superior than the original. It takes what minuscule lore is there in the original and imparts in it the depth of meaning we all imagined was there when we watched it as teenagers. I was never a fan of the original, but I was a huge Dawn of the Dead fan. I think it's a similar phenomenon. Blade Runner is like Dawn of the Dead. In that it is the imagining of a whole world in the mind of the viewer that allows it to live beyond it's limited means.

Anyway, a couple of random thoughts and observations:

 

Quote

It's not a wooden horse, it's a unicorn. Just the kid broke the horn off

Although I am sure it is masterfully shot, i'd love to see the original rushes to see how different they are. Every shot has been processed to oblivion

I don't know how Wallace corp found them in Las Vegas

I don't understand the Japanese element in this. I get it in the original, RS had been to Tokyo and was influenced design wise. But what's the link in this?

I imagine that there are thousands of replicants with the horse/furnace memory, as it is the daughter reaching out for someone to investigate further. 

 

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glb

glb

Posted
Posted

Wouldn’t the Japanese elements just be a continuation of the original’s style?

 

2049 feels like such a smooth progression from its predecessor, adding and expanding on the original in a way that feels very organic.

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kerraig UK

kerraig UK

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, glb said:

Wouldn’t the Japanese elements just be a continuation of the original’s style?

 

2049 feels like such a smooth progression from its predecessor, adding and expanding on the original in a way that feels very organic.

 

yeah aesthetically I get it. But in terms of the world. Why?

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glb

glb

Posted
Posted

I think the original had Japanese elements as, in the BR universe at least, their nation was predicted to surpass the US in terms of economy; so if 2049 is consistent with that, it would retain the same themes and motifs.

 

On a point you noted about Wallace:

 

Wallace Corp knew where they were in Vegas, because Luv got K’s location after she murdered Joshi (who was tracking K)

 

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Trigg

Trigg

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

I don't know how Wallace corp found them in Las Vegas

 

Spoiler

Didn't Luv kill the female police superier (I forget her name) of K to get the location from the tracking on the computer?

 

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Spacehost

Spacehost

Posted
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9 minutes ago, ngchol said:

I went to see a subtitled version last night and,

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slightly disappointingly, Mariette said "it was from a tree", not "it was from a dream".

 

I really hope they've done two sets of subtitles for it just to fuck with people.

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kerraig UK

kerraig UK

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, ngchol said:

I'm not sure if this has been covered already but:

 

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How did K find Luv and Deckard, after being suspended from LAPD? Did he just wait near the Wallace HQ? How did he get another police spinner?

 

Spoiler

K found Deckard from the radiation in the wood of the horse carving. Although there is a very weird edit in that scene with the dude from Captain Phillips.

 

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ngchol

ngchol

Posted
Posted
Just now, kerraig UK said:
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K found Deckard from the radiation in the wood of the horse carving. Although there is a very weird edit in that scene with the dude from Captain Phillips.

 

 

 

Spoiler

No, I mean after he was kidnapped by Luv - how did he find him then? And how did he get a new spinner?

 

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