Blade Runner 2049

[CS2x]

I just saw this tonight - extremely enjoyable! Pretty mesmerising, actually. It approaches themes I've seen addressed in a few science fiction films recently but somehow - despite its relative restraint - feels fresher and deeper in its exploration of those themes. It is also visually & sonically beyond anything I've seen in a while. It's interesting to read some backlash about the score, because I thought that was also stunning throughout (and very imaginatively integrated with the sound design and texture of the film.) I am a big Vangelis fan and enjoyed the original Blade Runner (and the soundtrack album in its own right) but this takes the music in a powerful new direction. Awesome, widescreen, soaring synth textures at some points, gritty and mangled and desolate at others - and lots hovering in all kinds of beautiful places in between.    

 

I've probably just been watching the wrong films, but this is the first 'big-budget' film I've seen in years and years that didn't make me feel like I was being treated like a 10 year old. It's so nice not to have to sit through the same old bombastic mundanity. It's like someone injected a strange dystopian independent sci-fi art film with a huge budget. Best thing I've seen since  Interstellar I think!

[barkbat]

I really really loved so much about this, but the story was just not coherent enough for me. It felt like beautiful moments and scenes and characters and ideas without a sufficient narrative to tie them all together. Which is exactly how I felt about the original. As it is, a very good film, but not quite the classic I was hoping for (after the stellar reviews).

 

It's so lovely seeing Harrison Ford acting properly again though. He really cared about this one. You can tell.

[DeciderVT]

11 hours ago, Triple A said:

- ana de armas and mackenzie davis both have very smart agents. (de armas playing the most iconic 'sexy leading lady' role since margot robbie in the wolf of wall street, and mackenzie davis amplifying the profile created by that leading role in the also-sci-fi-and-cyberpunky san junipero episode of black mirror)

 

This suggests that you may not have seen Davis in Halt and Catch Fire, which is something you should definitely see her in. If you have Amazon Prime, you will be able to stream every episode, including the last few of the final series as they're being broadcast.

[Stanley]

Finally got to see this last night for my birthday. I know it only came out last week but it felt like I was waiting ages.

 

Any fears I had about the soundtrack were unfounded. The use of sound generally and the way the soundtrack itself is integrated was just awesome. Really dirty and raw at times which just blended in with all the smog and the grime. 

 

Not quite the masterpiece I was expecting, but not far off in places. The story itself was more straightforward that I expected. There were a few twists here and there but overall it's exactly what I thought a new Blade Runner would be. 

 

Ryan Gosling was amazing. I just really felt for his character throughout. And the ending, perfect. 

 

Definitely need to see it again because there's so much to take in. I thought Jared Leto's character was under explored. I didn't really understand his goals. He seemed a bit like a Bond villain and at times just nasty for the sake of it. Quite cliched too. Same with his sidekick replicant who had no real depth to her character.

 

Ford was good but blimey did they make us wait. 

 

Overall 8/10 against the 9/10 original.

[Hoodedclaw]

I went last night as well, came home and couldn't think of anything else. Woke up this morning and still pondering it all. 

Gonna have to go again , imax proper tho next time 

 

[Pob]

43 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I thought Jared Leto's character was under explored. I didn't really understand his goals. He seemed a bit like a Bond villain and at times just nasty for the sake of it. Quite cliched too. Same with his sidekick replicant who had no real depth to her character.

Definitely check out the short that Alan Stock posted up-thread that focuses on his character. It expands on his motivations - about how the human race needs a vast workforce to expand into the stars in order to survive, having fucked up the Earth. Also, remember that it was his corp's farming technology that averted famine. He seemed to me like a CEO with a messiah complex, willing to do what's necessary to ensure humanity's future (and probably also be in charge of it all as well). This is mentioned in the film, but the short adds a bit more detail.

[Triple A]

4 hours ago, DeciderVT said:

This suggests that you may not have seen Davis in Halt and Catch Fire, which is something you should definitely see her in. If you have Amazon Prime, you will be able to stream every episode, including the last few of the final series as they're being broadcast.

No I haven't. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give it a go!

San Junipero/Black Mirror is a later performance with so much more visibility though, so I stand by my point.

[barkbat]

The problem was that Jared Leto never interacted with anyone. It was like Shakespeare soliloquy the whole time, so even though I worked out AFTER the film what he wanted, at the time I felt nothing because he was just saying words and not expressing anything through drama. All we needed was one scene where he marched thru some production line screaming MORE MORE I WANT MORE and then maybe stabbing a manager in the face.

[Stanley]

10 minutes ago, Pob said:

Definitely check out the short that Alan Stock posted up-thread that focuses on his character. It expands on his motivations - about how the human race needs a vast workforce to expand into the stars in order to survive, having fucked up the Earth. Also, remember that it was his corp's farming technology that averted famine. He seemed to me like a CEO with a messiah complex, willing to do what's necessary to ensure humanity's future (and probably also be in charge of it all as well). This is mentioned in the film, but the short adds a bit more detail.

Thank you, such a lot to take in. That's what I liked about the film, that it didn't give you all the answers. This is true of Villeneuve's other films too I think. Enemy took me two or three viewings to understand it better.

[Triple A]

2 hours ago, Pob said:

 

 

It expands on his motivations - about how the human race needs a vast workforce to expand into the stars in order to survive, having fucked up the Earth.

I really wish that the film could have expanded on the moral dilemma behind the antagonist's motivations and those of the forces trying to stop him - especially given that a core pillar of BR is its ambiguity (is he/isn't he a replicant). This aspect got played out far too straight and one-sided IMO, unless I missed something on first viewing.

[Alan Stock]

I love that Wallace is blind but can see via machines, you can read loads of symbolism into that. And then there is the parallels with Tyrell in Bladerunner, who wore those big thick glasses. Both with failed eyesight, but such vision.

 

I wanted to highlight the scenes with

 

Joi the hologram. It was a nice little subplot but visually it was brilliant. Imagine what a nightmare it must have been overlaying or editing all those scenes where you can see through her or she is inside people - especially the awesome sex scene where she overlays the prostitute. It's so effectively done, and such a beautiful concept, the lover he can't touch. The scene in the rain where he's trying not to break her boundary and spoil the illusion is great, and then it's shattered by the incoming message, I felt gutted for them both! And at the end of the film you have to wonder if Joi can actually think, feel and fall in love, or if its just part of her conditioned programming. And if it is, whether that even matters. I really liked the idea a how it was presented, even if it does take up maybe a bit too much of screentime.

[jon_cybernet]

Going to see this next week. I'm definitely going to need the wee somewhere in the middle of this though. When's the best time to take a pee break?

[Mr Cochese]

12 minutes ago, jon_cybernet said:

Going to see this next week. I'm definitely going to need the wee somewhere in the middle of this though. When's the best time to take a pee break?

Go during the scene where Ryan Gosling sits staring blankly into the middle distance for minutes at a time.

[SpagMasterSwift]

1 hour ago, Alan Stock said:

I love that Wallace is blind but can see via machines, you can read loads of symbolism into that. And then there is the parallels with Tyrell in Bladerunner, who wore those big thick glasses. Both with failed eyesight, but such vision.

 

I wanted to highlight the scenes with

  Hide contents

Joi the hologram. It was a nice little subplot but visually it was brilliant. Imagine what a nightmare it must have been overlaying or editing all those scenes where you can see through her or she is inside people - especially the awesome sex scene where she overlays the prostitute. It's so effectively done, and such a beautiful concept, the lover he can't touch. The scene in the rain where he's trying not to break her boundary and spoil the illusion is great, and then it's shattered by the incoming message, I felt gutted for them both! And at the end of the film you have to wonder if Joi can actually think, feel and fall in love, or if its just part of her conditioned programming. And if it is, whether that even matters. I really liked the idea a how it was presented, even if it does take up maybe a bit too much of screentime.

 

Spoiler

When he bought her the upgrade and said 'so where do you wanna go' - I found that to be such a beautiful moment...

 

[ZOK]

I keep seeing comments in here about negativity towards the score...surely it was just brilliant from start to finish?

[DeciderVT]

1 hour ago, Alan Stock said:

I love that Wallace is blind but can see via machines, you can read loads of symbolism into that. And then there is the parallels with Tyrell in Bladerunner, who wore those big thick glasses. Both with failed eyesight, but such vision.

 

I wanted to highlight the scenes with

  Hide contents

Joi the hologram. It was a nice little subplot but visually it was brilliant. Imagine what a nightmare it must have been overlaying or editing all those scenes where you can see through her or she is inside people - especially the awesome sex scene where she overlays the prostitute. It's so effectively done, and such a beautiful concept, the lover he can't touch. The scene in the rain where he's trying not to break her boundary and spoil the illusion is great, and then it's shattered by the incoming message, I felt gutted for them both! And at the end of the film you have to wonder if Joi can actually think, feel and fall in love, or if its just part of her conditioned programming. And if it is, whether that even matters. I really liked the idea a how it was presented, even if it does take up maybe a bit too much of screentime.

 

Spoiler

I don't think Joi is sentient at all- everything is programming to make the user feel better about themselves and maintain the illusion of being special, which is why K so readily believes her when she says that he's special and why she's an effective source of misdirection for the audience. It adds another sad little layer to K's existence- and existing to take orders is all he seems to be doing, with that stark contrast between the crap meal in a shit flat daubed with racist graffiti and the holographic meal Joi brings him.

 

[DeciderVT]

1 minute ago, ZOK said:

I keep seeing comments in here about negativity towards the score...surely it was just brilliant from start to finish?

It felt like standard Zimmer fare- solid but not spectacular. Certainly nowhere near as special or memorable as Vangelis' efforts in the original.

 

Spoiler

There's a very prominent snatch of the original score at one point and it stands out like a sore thumb, particularly because it changes the scene it appears in for the better.

 

[Aloha Snackbar]

Spoiler

I see Joi as a hidden medium of suggestion/manipulation. It’s how Deckard’s daughter controls K.

 

[Darren]

2 hours ago, jon_cybernet said:

Going to see this next week. I'm definitely going to need the wee somewhere in the middle of this though. When's the best time to take a pee break?

 

When K arrives in the outdoor “yellow area” (not the earlier interior with yellow lighting). It’s the start of a visually stunning but very slow walk through the scenery towards his goal. You’ll have time to go for a pee and possibly buy a hot dog before he gets there.

[oli]

I saw this last night and really enjoyed it, I think perhaps on a par with the original film but I think I'm missing something on the overarching plot.

 

Weren't both of the competing sides after the same end goal? The one-eyed woman/Deckard/K all wanted to keep the girl safe because she held the key to the replicants shedding the shackles of slavery as they could reproduce. Jared Leto's character and his sidekick also wanted the girl to understand how to make replicants reproduce so they could have a revolution. 

 

I know one of the sides wanted to save the girl and the other wants to dissect her but aren't their ultimate goals the same, create a new species and start a revolution?

 

Or have I missed something fundamental? I must admit it was late, my son had kept me up a lot of the night before and I'm on some medication that makes me a bit drowsy.

 

[Aloha Snackbar]

Spoiler

One faction see her from a religious point of view, the other scientific.

 

[kerraig UK]

Off to see this again tonight. Was trying to work out who Jared Leto reminded me of in this. It's Max Headroom!

[K]

20 minutes ago, oli said:

I saw this last night and really enjoyed it, I think perhaps on a par with the original film but I think I'm missing something on the overarching plot.

 

 

  Hide contents

Weren't both of the competing sides after the same end goal? The one-eyed woman/Deckard/K all wanted to keep the girl safe because she held the key to the replicants shedding the shackles of slavery as they could reproduce. Jared Leto's character and his sidekick also wanted the girl to understand how to make replicants reproduce so they could have a revolution. 

 

 

I know one of the sides wanted to save the girl and the other wants to dissect her but aren't their ultimate goals the same, create a new species and start a revolution?

 

Or have I missed something fundamental? I must admit it was late, my son had kept me up a lot of the night before and I'm on some medication that makes me a bit drowsy.

 
 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Wallace wanted the secret to repliduction so that he could create cheap slave labour to colonise the galaxy; the replicant freedom movement wanted it so that they could control their own destiny.

 

[Pob]

5 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

Off to see this again tonight. Was trying to work out who Jared Leto reminded me of in this. It's Max Headroom!

What was the scene that Villeneuve showed after the original BR screening that you said was total shit?

[Mr Cochese]

Either way, there are some fine folks on both sides.

[Aloha Snackbar]

Jared Leto was like Gene Hackman in Young Frankenstein.

[kerraig UK]

Just now, Pob said:

What was the scene that Villeneuve showed after the original BR screening that you said was total shit?

It was the whole intro to Vegas. Where Ryan steps over the trip mine wire. Nothing with Ford or dialogue or plot. Just Gosling walking through a building. 

When I was watching the film and it got to that bit I took the opportunity to go for a piss.

[Pob]

1 minute ago, kerraig UK said:

It was the whole intro to Vegas. Where Ryan steps over the trip mine wire. Nothing with Ford or dialogue or plot. Just Gosling walking through a building. 

When I was watching the film and it got to that bit I took the opportunity to go for a piss.

Ha. I must say that was definitely one of the sequences that could've been shortened to get the running time down.

[K]

You could have cut a fair bit out of this film without really damaging it. The whole sequence where K's car gets harpooned could have been excised fairly easily. That said, I'm glad it's in there - it's a bit like the sentry gun segment from Aliens, in that the film works perfectly well without it, but it's still very cool.

[Alan Stock]

You probably could cut that bit but I loved it, it was a needed ramp up in action and the whole drone oversight was really cool. Plus from a worldbuilding point of view, the location is wicked and it shows the motivations of Luv.

 

Re: Wishdoktor

 

Interesting theory about Joi controlled by the daughter, but I don't recall Joi doing much to steer K except giving him general moral support.

 

So noone has any more ending theories to explain these things?:

 

 

What the final scene with the daughter in the snow signifies? Is it her seeing what Joe sees? Is there another connection besides memory we don't know? Is she linked to Joi or holograms with the connection of the twirling hands catching the snowflakes?

 

Are the rebel replicants after Deckard? Is Joe manipulated by them or the daughter to find him or is that just chance? Why do they show up at Deckard's place, is it just because they know that K's discovered Deckard's hideout via the bug and want to stop him?

 

Is Joe actually special or is this deliberately left ambiguous like Deckard being a replicant? There's enough hints that he may actually be special in some way even after they tell him he's not the "one".