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No Refunds, You Idiot – The Sony Customer Service Thread

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It's very boring though NEG. When I were a lad it was about who had the best games. Now it's who has the best customer service.

yeah but if we talked about that all we'd hear from Sony diehards is Bloodborne repeated over and over and over

ps3/4 haz no gamez!!!

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So MS gives you 4 games, Sony gives you 6, yet MS is the better deal. Something doesn't add up there to me.

Keeping the 360 games forever is cool, but I don't think you get to keep the Xbox One games.

How can you get Gold for £20 btw, have they cut the price?

It's across 3 hardware platforms as opposed to MS's 2. So it's not far off per platform really. Either way, they're both pretty good value for money

I think it's pretty much beyond doubt that Sony has the flakier online now. I'd be amazed if someone still claimed that the experience on Sony (with the maintenance and outages) is exactly the same or better than Live.

Also this is moot anyway. People have invested lots in their software libraries and have chosen the platform their mates are on so moving isn't easy at all.

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I thought they had the capability what with repairs and stuff. Now you mention it though, I remember them also getting you to set up a new silver account and crediting it with points to buy your content again on that one so it was tied to the machine. I'm sure I had it both ways but I could be wrong, obv

If it was repaired (by them), they could do it. If you bought a new machine and wanted to move it over, you couldn't.

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Remember when MS were as bad as Sony are now? Like before you could even transfer games from one 360 to another? Lying twunts back then, they were:

http://lofi-gaming.org.uk/blog/2008/03/27/my-360-rip-part-v/

http://lofi-gaming.org.uk/blog/2008/03/29/fume/

This has been bothering me as I was sure I got a new 360 in 2008 and did a transfer.. turns out we are both right and you were 3 months too early.

http://kotaku.com/5020018/xbox-360-license-transfer-tool-now-available

The license transfer tool came out in June 2008. Before that you had to slum it and ensure you had online connection to play on the new machine. At least it had a sensible account system that at least let you play on more than 1 console from day one ;)

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This has been bothering me as I was sure I got a new 360 in 2008 and did a transfer.. turns out we are both right and you were 3 months too early.

I did say that.

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So MS gives you 4 games, Sony gives you 6, yet MS is the better deal. Something doesn't add up there to me.

Keeping the 360 games forever is cool, but I don't think you get to keep the Xbox One games.

How can you get Gold for £20 btw, have they cut the price?

The better deal because Xbox Live is much cheaper, and if you don't have a Vita those 2 extra games mean nothing.

And then there's the fact that PSN has a terrible reliability record.

My last renewal was £19 in fact.

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The better deal because Xbox Live is much cheaper, and if you don't have a Vita those 2 extra games mean nothing.

Apart from that they're often cross buy so you are in fact more often than not getting more than two a month for your PS4.

For me it's a no brainer because I have all three consoles and Vita is probably my favourite. There's no Microsoft alternative either.

Getting away from the point though. Most people choose their console based on the games they want, not which has better customer service. Xbox was never my first choice in that regard, and it still wouldn't be.

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When my 360 died, MS sent me £60 of GAME vouchers.

If my PS4 died, I expect SONY to send me a turd in a box, with a punch from the delivery dude for good measure.

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It's stories like that which is making our household consider switching to the Bone later this year.

Yeah, us too. I haven't got either yet, and I vowed after my live account was hacked never to give MS another penny which wasn't from buying credit elsewhere, but right now I simply feel safer with an Xbox that if something does happen, MS will at least try to sort it out.

My kids' friends have mostly got PS4 this time round though, so there is some residual pressure there.

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I think it's safe to say a £19 12 month PS+ renewal is so rare it's not even worth thinking about, if it was on CDKeys then HotUKDeals would've caused universe to collapse into the internet. Does a year of Live really go for £20 that often though? I almost bought one when there was that bargain thread post the other week despite not even needing one it seemed like such a good deal that wouldn't be seen often.

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I think it's safe to say a £19 12 month PS+ renewal is so rare it's not even worth thinking about, if it was on CDKeys then HotUKDeals would've caused universe to collapse into the internet. Does a year of Live really go for £20 that often though? I almost bought one when there was that bargain thread post the other week despite not even needing one it seemed like such a good deal that wouldn't be seen often.

I've seen it for £20 twice in the last 6 months from cdkeys.

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Xbox Live, yeah? If that one does come up reasonably often that's one thing that'd tempt me to that side. Despite having a fair few games to play on PS4 via PS+ I don't feel anywhere near as likely to get one largely for that like I did with PS3/Vita.

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Xbox Live, yeah? If that one does come up reasonably often that's one thing that'd tempt me to that side. Despite having a fair few games to play on PS4 via PS+ I don't feel anywhere near as likely to get one largely for that like I did with PS3/Vita.

Yup, sorry. Xbox Live. Someone usually posts something in the bargains forum.

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Purely comparing Xbox One games released on Gold vs PS4 games on PS plus

Game Date added Date removed Notes Ref. 1 Halo: Spartan Assault June 3, 2014 July 31, 2014 [22][23] 2 Max: The Curse of Brotherhood June 3, 2014 July 31, 2014 [22][23] 3 Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition July 2, 2014 July 31, 2014 [41] 4 Crimson Dragon August 1, 2014 October 31, 2014 [42] 5 Strike Suit Zero August 1, 2014 August 31, 2014 [26] 6 Super Time Force September 1, 2014 September 30, 2014 [28] 7 Chariot October 1, 2014 November 30, 2014 [30] 8 Völgarr the Viking November 1, 2014 December 31, 2014 Replaced with the full version of Powerstar Golf in Germany, Russia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand and Brazil. Can be downloaded to Australian Xbox LIVE accounts via Xbox.com marketplace. [32] 9 Worms Battlegrounds December 1, 2014 February 28, 2015 Replaced with Max: The Curse of Brotherhood in Japan and Russia. [33] 10 D4: Dark Dreams Don't Die January 1, 2015 January 30, 2015 [34] 11 #IDARB (It Draws a Red Box) February 1, 2015 March 31, 2015 [35] 12 Rayman Legends March 1, 2015 April 30, 2015 Replaced with Max: The Curse of Brotherhood in Japan. [36] 13 Pool Nation:FX April 1, 2015 June 30, 2015 Unavailable in Japan. [37] 14 Child of Light April 1, 2015 April 30, 2015 [37] 15 CastleStorm: Definitive Edition May 1, 2015 May 31, 2015 Replaced with Max: The Curse of Brotherhood in Japan. [38] 16 Massive Chalice June 1, 2015 June 30, 2015 [39] 17 Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag July 1, 2015 July 31, 2015 Replaced with Halo: Spartan Assault in Japan. [40][43] 18 So Many Me July 16, 2015 August 15, 2015 [40

PlayStation 4[edit]

Game Date added Date removed Ref. 1 Contrast 29 November 2013 8 January 2014 [49] 2 Resogun 5 February 2014 3 Don't Starve 8 January 2014 [50] 4 Outlast 5 February 2014 5 March 2014 [51]Sound Shapes (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, India and Turkey) 5 Dead Nation: Apocalypse Edition 5 March 2014 2 April 2014 [52] 6 Mercenary Kings 2 April 2014 30 April 2014 [53] 7 Stick It to the Man! 30 April 2014 4 June 2014 [54] 8 PixelJunk Shooter: Ultimate (cross-buy) 4 June 2014 2 July 2014 [55] 9 Trine 2: Complete Story 10 Doki-Doki Universe (cross-buy) 2 July 2014 6 August 2014 [56] 11 Strider 12 TowerFall: Ascension 13 Fez (cross-buy) 6 August 2014 3 September 2014 [57] 14 Road Not Taken 15 Sportsfriends (cross-buy) 3 September 2014 8 October 2014 [58] 16 Velocity 2X (cross-buy) 17 Dust: An Elysian Tail 8 October 2014 5 November 2014 [59] 18 Pix the Cat (cross-buy) 19 Spelunky (cross-buy) 20 Escape Plan (cross-buy) 5 November 2014 3 December 2014 [60] 21 SteamWorld Dig (cross-buy) 22 The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth (cross-buy) 23 Injustice: Gods Among Us – Ultimate Edition 3 December 2014 7 January 2015 [61] 24 Secret Ponchos 25 Titan Attacks (cross-buy) 26 InFamous: First Light 7 January 2015 4 February 2015 [62] 27 The Swapper (cross-buy) 28 Apotheon 4 February 2015 4 March 2015 [63] 29 Rogue Legacy (cross-buy) 30 Transistor 31 CounterSpy (cross-buy) 4 March 2015 8 April 2015 [64] 32 Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty! 33 OlliOlli2: Welcome to Olliwood (cross-buy) 34 Valiant Hearts: The Great War 35 Aaru's Awakening (cross-buy) 8 April 2015 6 May 2015 [65] 36 Never Alone 37 Tower of Guns (cross-buy) 38 Ether One 6 May 2015 3 June 2015 [66] 39 Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition 40 The Unfinished Swan (cross-buy) 41 Race the Sun (cross-buy) 42 Hohokum (cross-buy) 43 Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes 3 June 2015 7 July 2015 [67] 44 Skulls of the Shogun: Bone-A-Fide Edition 45 Super Exploding Zoo (cross-buy) 46 Futuridium EP Deluxe (cross-buy) 47 Mousecraft (cross-buy) 7 July 2015 4 August 2015 [68] 48 Entwined (cross-buy) 49 Rocket League 50 Styx: Master of Shadows

That's before you even take into account the Vita stuff and high quality PS3 releases

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Games_with_Gold_games

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collection_games_(PAL_region)

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I suppose the advantage is with the Xbox One (In the future). Soon, many of those that were released for the 360 will be playable on the Xbox One. With Sonys offering you will still need all 3 consoles.

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I think it's safe to say a £19 12 month PS+ renewal is so rare it's not even worth thinking about, if it was on CDKeys then HotUKDeals would've caused universe to collapse into the internet. Does a year of Live really go for £20 that often though? I almost bought one when there was that bargain thread post the other week despite not even needing one it seemed like such a good deal that wouldn't be seen often.

Yeah, it's fairly regularly £20 for a year of Xbox Live. £19 comes up every now and then.

The PS4 is just sleeker and nicer to look at, too.

and touch.

Well yeah, that is a priority.

If you're fucking your console.

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I think it's safe to say a £19 12 month PS+ renewal is so rare it's not even worth thinking about, if it was on CDKeys then HotUKDeals would've caused universe to collapse into the internet. Does a year of Live really go for £20 that often though? I almost bought one when there was that bargain thread post the other week despite not even needing one it seemed like such a good deal that wouldn't be seen often.

Well I renewed last year it was £25 (for 13 months)

the year before I paid 22

this year 20

so either I am lucky and all the best deals are in June or its always discounted to 20-25 quid

By comparison I had PS+ for 4 years I think and I never paid less than 30 (at the mo 35 is cheapest I can find) it just isnt as widely or routinely discounted as xbox live.

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The thing is, gaming's not a customer service led industry. Comparing it to banking or your electric company isn't really relevant. The reason they're not doing anything to improve is because they don't need to, from their point of view. When you buy a car or choose a bank you might well consider what the service down the line will be like, people don't do that with games consoles. Maybe in the future, as things become more service led, they will do, but it's still a fairly new concept at the moment. Games, or the networks that they rely on these days, are heading that way more and more but most people aren't really thinking about it yet.

When people say they can't understand why they insist on losing customers over, in my case, £40 it's partly because they can afford to and partly because to change their whole set-up would cost a huge amount more. They don't really need to do that because the people with issues represent a small part of the user base. Having worked in banks and electric companies, I know they'd consider 95% customer satisfaction as pretty bloody good. In the world of gaming, from Sony's point of view, silence means approval. If as many as 5% (it's probably far fewer) of their customers are kicking up a stink then that means 95% are happy.

If I owned the PS part of Sony I'm not sure I'd change anything from a business point of view. Ethically maybe, but ethics rarely has any place in business when you're making money.

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Valve customer service is pretty good in my experience and that is purely digital and purely games industry. I asked for a refund on a game that I had already played for about 30 mins because it came up cheaper in a sale three weeks later. Nothing else was wrong with it. They approved the refund in minutes. I avoid buying digital on any console altogether if I have retail alternatives but PC is no problem. Steam has good 2 factor authentication as well.

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The thing with banks et al is that bank accounts are all basically the same. If Lloyds fuck you over you'd just go to HSBC and wouldn't even notice the difference. If you want to jump from Sony to Microsoft though, you have to consider all the games you'd never be able to play, all the friends you wouldn't be able to play with anymore on the one day a month that PSN is working.

It's just not comparable.

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Valve customer service is pretty good in my experience and that is purely digital and purely games industry. I asked for a refund on a game that I had already played for about 30 mins because it came up cheaper in a sale three weeks later. Nothing else was wrong with it. They approved the refund in minutes. I avoid buying digital on any console altogether if I have retail alternatives but PC is no problem. Steam has good 2 factor authentication as well.

In standing up Steam, they've pretty much always hand to approach CS from the perspective of intangible goods. For consoles prior to all this heavily integrated services stuff, you could just go yell at someone in Game or CEX or whatever. I mean, sure, Stanley made a quip about games vs customer service, but the more of what you own being governed by ambiguous walls of legal text, the more the latter should influence what you're doing. Many years ago, my cousin was stripped of everything he owned on Steam because the AI cheat system reckoned he was cheating on CounterStrike. That made me wary of Steam purchases for a long time.

I don't know what MS were like to deal with previously, but we've clearly reached a point where them being nice to you is seen as necessary. Sony are, evidently, a long way from that.

Plus 2FA, ffs.

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