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Timmo

No Refunds, You Idiot – The Sony Customer Service Thread

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I don't get the Sony bloke claiming that they get loads of people attempting to scam them? How do they know? And surely they can remove the game license when they issue a refund so there's no way to get a free game unless you disconnect the console from the net forever. Not much of a scam.

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I don't get the Sony bloke claiming that they get loads of people attempting to scam them? How do they know? And surely they can remove the game license when they issue a refund so there's no way to get a free game unless you disconnect the console from the net forever. Not much of a scam.

Yeah, I sort of tried pointing this out but was aware that the guy couldn't do anything and I'd just be giving him a hard time.

It would be interesting to see how other digital services act in similar situations. Do Valve, Microsoft, Nintendo ect do the same thing?

I haven't had the same issue with those companies but Microsoft always seemed okay when I called about anything. I think the general company line is to take the odd hit like this for the sake of customer relations, it was only £40 after all but I suppose they think if they do it for everyone it'll be a lot. My point was that this highlights an issue with their processes if they're that open to abuse and I don't see why I should suffer.

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It's not even REALLY £40 because they're not missing a physical good out of the deal, they're back 100% to where they would be if the transaction which shouldn't have taken place never took place.

Minus a few GB of bandwidth I guess. But it's not like there's say, a car they can only sell on at a massive discount or something.

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Well that's the thing. They say they've blocked the other console (I don't believe them) and that it can't access any stuff bought on it and all that so they haven't even lost a sale. Even if it had been me, refunding the money wouldn't leave me 'up' in any way.

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I don't get the Sony bloke claiming that they get loads of people attempting to scam them? How do they know? And surely they can remove the game license when they issue a refund so there's no way to get a free game unless you disconnect the console from the net forever. Not much of a scam.

They claim they 'know'. It may be true. It may not be true. They may believe it to be true, or they may just say it because they think it's expedient. After all, no-one is likely to take them to court (even small claims), the authorities aren't interested unless there is a big enough fuss at which point Sony can say, "after careful consideration blah blah blah we have decided to refund these customers blah lessons have been learned." You know, the usual guff. They don't need to do anything until there is a big enough fuss.

Whatever; AFAICS, they are presently complicit in the fraud they agree is occurring and they have stolen money from the innocent customer.

They would be compelled to do something if the amount was ten or a hundred times as much.

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Surely if they have blocked the other console they can see what accounts access PSN via that consoles MAC Address? they are just lazy and incompetent.

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If they knew they would know who was guilty and who was innocent and would refund the latter.

I think you would. I'm not so sure about them evil multinational corporations.

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The problem isn't really making a substantial case, that much is easy, they don't really have a leg to stand on due mainly to their own contradictions. The problem is getting anyone who can do something to listen. I can wail on the poor call centre guys all day but there's nothing they can do even if they agree with me.

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To get silly for a minute, how do I know they don't just go around adding consoles to people's accounts themselves to they can snaffle up any unused funds in people's wallets? Ridiculous right? Yet they cannot proved they don't. In the same way that they want me to prove something I didn't do.

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Get Citizen's Advice to take the case to Trading Standards?

Last time I went to my local CAB I waited an hour to talk to a 16 year old. As much as it's about the principle really, there's only so much I'll do over £40.

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And surely they can remove the game license when they issue a refund so there's no way to get a free game unless you disconnect the console from the net forever. Not much of a scam.

I don't think they can cos I've seen a few people on Reddit asking why they can still play a game after getting a refund. This is PSN we're talking about after all.

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Last time I went to my local CAB I waited an hour to talk to a 16 year old. As much as it's about the principle really, there's only so much I'll do over £40.

Well quite, it's hardly worth you spending an hour on the phone, let alone queuing up in CAB or filing with small claims. If it were £400 it would be a different story. And they know that.

Really the bad press angle, which you're trying in cooperation with others, seems the best approach. Also contact Trading Standards. And maybe the police. If they're interested, great. If they're not interested you have more material for the press to run with: "... and what's worse is there is no practical way to hold Sony to account."

[edit]

Maybe contact self-proclaimed consumer justice warriors (CJW), too, like TotalBiscuit (over 300k Twitter followers and over 1m YouTube subscribers).

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They removed FIFA and British Cop skin pack from my download list so it can be done. I know this for sure because I had to rebuy British Cop skin pack.

And they removed all my purchases when my £80 was refunded. Gave me enough money to buy British Cop skin pack myself. Which I was delighted with.

Seriously though Pockets, there's no point talking to the support centre on the phone or via email once the initial report and initial 'no refund' email has been made. They have zero power to do anything no matter how sympathetic (or not as others have experienced) they seem. Once you've shown that you've done everything reasonable to resolve the issue via the support centre, move on to the emailing people within Sony, like my long post suggested in the other thread.

To sum it up;

1. Go through the normal support route. This will take 2-3 weeks from reporting it. It is extremely unlikely that you will receive a refund at this point. They will read you 'Terms of Service' and how 'You' are solely responsible for your account.

2. Appeal this decision. Make formal complaint. Will most likely be denied. Or ignored.

3. Write a letter (post) to Sony HQ in London. Will most likely be ignored.

4. Again, appeal on the phone/email. Message them on Twitter/Playstation forums etc. My Twitter account has 60k+ followers and they responded to my questions, until they know who I really was...then they just ignored me. So, prepare to be ignored again.

Throughout all of this be prepared to be attacked by Sony Fanboys, people calling you an idiot for getting hacked or phished (even if it isn't true!), and be prepared for Sony to treat you like either an idiot or a criminal. This forum here was by far the most friendly and helpful for me in getting my funds returned. I am still grateful for that guys!

The point of all the above is to show that you have gone through the proper channels and you have done everything reasonably possible to try and bring the issue to resolution.

Now you can step it up, my breakthough I feel was for one of two reasons:

1. I emailed a bucketload of Sony employees on www.linkedin.com and one took pity and escalated the issue to someone who could actually do something.

The way you can do this is, search SCEE & customer or consumer and find people who are in that field within SCEE. Then, to obtain their email address use this guide: FistName_LastName@scee.net.

I believe that the guy who did help me was a Mr Nick Caplin as I was once called on behalf of him. But I cannot be sure. If it was him, I remain grateful to him. https://www.linkedin...SRPcmpt:primary

2. I emailed a number of papers/blogs etc. Only the Guardian responded to me, and a kind person there told me she would investigate my case. I didn't hear anything else back from her, but shortly after, I did receive the refund. Her name was Ann Timms of the Guardian's Consumer Affairs section.

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I've been emailing people at sony and messaging on Twitter with no response. I'll give it a little longer before taking it to the police. Someone pointed out a case number alone would help to suggest it wasn't me.

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What was the fraudulent transaction for, Pockets? I think the fact that Timmo's included British Cop Skin Pack is what gave the story traction.


Timmo couldn't go to the police because they wouldn't understand why he'd want a refund for the British Cop Skin Pack.

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They also revoked my Fifa 15 Licence when I called to cancel the pre-order the day before release, it had already downloaded and was launchable according to the PS4 up until they gave the refund and it was no longer playable.

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Well Pockets story has made it to the top of reddits Games subreddit, so hopefully it'll go viral and get sorted.

No consolidation to everyone else who's stuck, mind.

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Yeah that's the thing and why I want it all public. Even if I were to get it sorted it's not right that most others won't unless some big deal is made and they're forcwd to change things somehow. The £40 isn't a huge issue but the way they deal with it is.

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Have you tried contacting any celebs who are into gaming? Charlie Brooker? Dara O'Briain? Jonathan Ross? Etc. one of them may prove sympathetic and give you a retweet or if you can convince them further, to actually speak out against the whole sham.

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I don't get the Sony bloke claiming that they get loads of people attempting to scam them? How do they know? And surely they can remove the game license when they issue a refund so there's no way to get a free game unless you disconnect the console from the net forever. Not much of a scam.

Does the ps4 occasionally dial home to validate you own the game? You may not even be able to stay offline, if that's how it works.

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They must have some way to check if you are licensed to play the game in some way otherwise PS+ wouldn't work. When your sub expires the games don't load any more.

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