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rllmuk
rubberducker

PlayStation VR

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Way I see it VR lives or dies based on Sony's success. No way can it ever become a mainstream, sustainable market with it costing what it does to get up and running on an Oculus, or a Vive and if none of them are financially successful then it'll all just go away for at least another five or ten years.

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You're talking about the more high end of VR anyway, the real war for the public is on mobile, which is where they put John Carmack. No cables, cheapest entry price and Samsung want the marketing edge over their competitors. He gave one of his talks a few years ago where he reckoned non-gaming apps would be the most popular use for VR.

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Yeah, I forgot about that. You're probably right and things like the Gear VR headset might be the big thing over the next year. But high end is what it's all about for me, my interest in Gear VR completely disappeared as soon as sony announced the release date and started taking preorders for PSVR.

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18 hours ago, Fury.HD said:

You need to connect it to UK mains mind. Not that much of a problem, but worth bearing in mind.

 

Does Republic of Irelandia not use the same plug and voltage as the UK?

 

I've just pre-ordered one of those. ~£40 off and free DPD delivery.

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5 minutes ago, SeanR said:

how much is the lowest spec'd samsung to support VR?

 

Galaxy S7 is the current one, would cost ~£650 without contract and with the Gear VR addon. The Americans got given the Gear VR for free if they bought a new Samsung, as it's a phone you use anyway for other tasks, most people probably don't consider the price per se. It's just a way for Samsung to push their handsets over rival ones and is part of the reason I suppose why they supply Oculus with their displays, a mutually beneficial relationship.

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39 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Oculus is bound to be better by virtue of it using significantly more powerful PC hardware. 

 

As for them being priced similarly even including the PS camera it's still £400 or less, so £100 cheaper.

 

£400 + £45 controller + Money On Games.

Suddenly the difference isn't even £100, if you cared to put like for like.

 

Not having to buy a £700-800 PC of course would help. But then "avoiding giving Sony my credit card details" and "not worrying about the strange noises my PS4 has started to make 2 years in" counts quite highly too...

 

tbh the major advantage of PS4 VR is that I don't expect another significantly better PS headset to come out in the next three years, whereas that isn't the case on PC. The main disadvantage is that it's a console perphirial, and the most successful one of those ever was Kinect.

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£45 controller? I assume you mean Move, which isn't a requirement - and the DS4 comes with the console. Don't forget that it comes with demos and a suite of mini game type things too.

 

Obviously there are loads of options depending on what hardware and accessories you already own, and which you want. But it's totally possible to go with just the basic £350 package and have enough to be getting on with.

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Well that's me VR ready.. Totally forgot I had a Move Starter Pack and PS3 Book of Spells hidden up the loft! 

 

923FA7E7-8FF1-4D7A-AA1B-C39CBAFEC042.jpg

 

Roll on October! :D

 

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1 hour ago, footle said:

£400 + £45 controller + Money On Games.

Suddenly the difference isn't even £100, if you cared to put like for like.

Are PC games free, then? You seem to have loaded them up on one side of this equation and left them off the other.

 

1 hour ago, footle said:

Not having to buy a £700-800 PC of course would help.

Yes. No shit it would. Also: can you build a Rift-spec PC for £700? Recommended GPU, which is not going to be a blazingly great experience, is a 970 and that's £275 on its own. Looking at the PC Build Thread suggests it's north of £800 and that stacks up pretty spendy next to a PS4.

 

Stupid rllmuk broken undeleatable quote:

 

1 hour ago, footle said:

 

 

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It comes with a demo disc. On top of the two games packed in, PC enthusiasts are likely to already own a tonne of games that also have had VR compaibility patched in - so I wouldn't need to pay a penny extra to play Elite Dangerous/Euro Truck Simulator/Vanishing of Ethan Carter/Dirty Rally and a tonne of others since I already own them in my library and never bought them specifically for VR. 

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18 minutes ago, DocG said:

Yes. No shit it would. Also: can you build a Rift-spec PC for £700? Recommended GPU, which is not going to be a blazingly great experience, is a 970 and that's £275 on its own. Looking at the PC Build Thread suggests it's north of £800 and that stacks up pretty spendy next to a PS4.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a 970 based PC that cost in total about 800-850 and that included a 512gb SSD and its about 12 months old now it has a cpu slightly worse than oculus rcommendation but my PC passes the SteamVR test (my wallet doesnt pass the vive test tho).

 

just checking and going for Oculus base spec pcpartpicker says I can build one for £670 - that is just a quick knocked up spec and includes windows license. Its not a great mobo but I've never spent much on a mobo. It has recommended cpu and ram and gpu and a 1 tb HDD (you can get a 970 for £250)

 

So yes you can build one for 700.

 

So basically for PCVR it is double the price in terms of hardware pushing the pixels and at least £100 more for the headset.

 

£690 for a PS4 complete setup

£1230 for a Oculus complete setup (assuming 700 quid pc)

 

You need a shit ton of games to make up that price difference. Either way you cut it the PC VR is likely to be a small niche and the PS4 is the more "massmarket" option (but still a niche!).


GearVR is even more massmarket but I'm not convinced it is impressive enough to sway the market.

 

More likely PS5 with VR in a handful of years is likely to hit the sweet spot. Unless it all goes "Kinect" ;)

 

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Well for me a complete VR setup for PS4 has cost £390... compared to just shy of a grand it would have cost for Oculus and the PC upgrades I'd need.

 

Hence a no brain decision which to go for. .. even though PSVR will be a lower tech spec. 

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If you don't already own a high end enthusiast PC (for me the hardware cost is £0 because I would own a high end PC regardless of VR), you're not the type of market for high end PC VR anyway so I'm not sure what the point of the argument is in comparing the set ups - like people are genuinely considering spending £800-£1k on an unknown tech on a platform they previously didn't give a shit about. My last few posts is trying to state despite the bigger price tags, the PC headsets are necessarily much far off value. They offer different hardware and pack in solutions entirely and I don't doubt that even at $600 that Oculus still aren't making money.

 

Here is the VR flowchart if you want to join in non mobile VR this year. 

 

Do you own a high end PC? No? buy a PSVR

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If we're going to start discounting about stuff we already own this tedious conversation is going to get really bad. Like, I own a PS4 but not a PC, so for me PSVR vs Rift is £350 vs £1250. Is this a meaningful thing to say? Doesn't feel like it. 

6 minutes ago, DogEyedBoy said:

 

You can CTRL + Right Click on quotes to delete them.

Not on my phone I can't. 

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what about the benefits of fixed hardware target?

 

I have a PC with a 970 in it. However Oculus test fails my setup (the cpu is 5% too slow), SteamVR passes it relatively comfortably with the test.

 

So I can use Vive but not Oculus even though both are 1200p 90fps as far as I know. How is that sensible? Which one is right?

 

We know that VR needs a solid framerate to match display so 90fps for PC and 60fps (doubled to 120 ) on PS4.

 

With PC specs being notably variable how can I guarantee my PC will hit that for all games?

 

IF Sony are true to their word and only certify games that hit 60fps and hold it rock solid then that gives it an advantage over PCVR for me as no matter what card/setup I had I couldn't guarantee that a game wouldn't perform poorly and ruin the VR experience.

 

I realise this is common in the PC arena but for VR we are constantly told it is CRUCIAL for it to hit and hold its framerate without any dips at all. On normal PC games I play I do get dips and stuff but it doesn't bother me but apparently for PCVR its crucial it doesnt dip.

 

So anyone with a "basic" spec PC system with a 970 is better off probably going for the fixed platform or upgrade their cpu and gpu. And even then no guarantee of smooth performance every time.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Clipper said:

what about the benefits of fixed hardware target?

 

I have a PC with a 970 in it. However Oculus test fails my setup (the cpu is 5% too slow), SteamVR passes it relatively comfortably with the test.

 

So I can use Vive but not Oculus even though both are 1200p 90fps as far as I know. How is that sensible? Which one is right?

 

We know that VR needs a solid framerate to match display so 90fps for PC and 60fps (doubled to 120 ) on PS4.

 

With PC specs being notably variable how can I guarantee my PC will hit that for all games?

 

IF Sony are true to their word and only certify games that hit 60fps and hold it rock solid then that gives it an advantage over PCVR for me as no matter what card/setup I had I couldn't guarantee that a game wouldn't perform poorly and ruin the VR experience.

 

I realise this is common in the PC arena but for VR we are constantly told it is CRUCIAL for it to hit and hold its framerate without any dips at all. On normal PC games I play I do get dips and stuff but it doesn't bother me but apparently for PCVR its crucial it doesnt dip.

 

So anyone with a "basic" spec PC system with a 970 is better off probably going for the fixed platform or upgrade their cpu and gpu. And even then no guarantee of smooth performance every time.

 

 

 

The obvious answer is you drop the detail down in the game to meet the frame rate. How do you think the ps4 is going to manage it?

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6 minutes ago, fasteasyfree said:

 

The obvious answer is you drop the detail down in the game to meet the frame rate. How do you think the ps4 is going to manage it?

 

two things

 

1) That doesnt explain why Oculus says it wont work with my setup at all and SteamVR says it will.

2) And with my current PC setup I don't bother that much apart from some odd tweaks to begin with if performance is tanking to get a decent framerate (actually I havent had to do this yet). But now I'll have to tweak it to ensure I get no dips at all and lock on 90?

 

so for those on a "basic setup" of a 970 and an i5 it seems like a pain in the balls... A bit like running games on "minimum spec" which is why I gave up PC gaming for a while and only came back to it when i had a decent spec that was at least recommended or above.

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25 minutes ago, fasteasyfree said:

 

The obvious answer is you drop the detail down in the game to meet the frame rate. 

So: start game, accept auto tuned settings, play ten minutes, find a janky bit, pause, take headset off, tweak settings, put headset on, play more, jank, take headset off, tweak, Google for tweak tips, tweak, headset on, play, find jank, ...

 

25 minutes ago, fasteasyfree said:

How do you think the ps4 is going to manage it?

Put headset on, play game on auto settings knowing autosettings will be reasonably accurately tuned by the dev over hundreds of hours of play testing.

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6 minutes ago, DocG said:

So: start game, accept auto tuned settings, play ten minutes, find a janky bit, pause, take headset off, tweak settings, put headset on, play more, jank, take headset off, tweak, Google for tweak tips, tweak, headset on, play, find jank, ...

 

Put headset on, play game on auto settings knowing autosettings will be reasonably accurately tuned by the dev over hundreds of hours of play testing.

 

That's a silly example. Hopefully the auto tuned settings will be intelligent enough you won't have to do that. Otherwise someone running 980s in sli will have the same issue.

 

As for the ps4, I meant: how is it going to accomplish maintaining a high frame rate from a development standpoint. The only two ways to go about it are a drop in detail or resolution.

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43 minutes ago, Clipper said:

 

two things

 

1) That doesnt explain why Oculus says it wont work with my setup at all and SteamVR says it will.

2) And with my current PC setup I don't bother that much apart from some odd tweaks to begin with if performance is tanking to get a decent framerate (actually I havent had to do this yet). But now I'll have to tweak it to ensure I get no dips at all and lock on 90?

 

The SteamVR benchmark runs the source engine, which is notoriously easy to drive. So I wouldn't place a load of stock in those benchmarks to be honest, and wait for some games.

 

As for the second point, it goes back to the auto tuning of the initial setup. If it's a game built for vr, you'd hope it would adjust things for you automatically.

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2 hours ago, Uzi Temp said:

It comes with a demo disc. On top of the two games packed in, PC enthusiasts are likely to already own a tonne of games that also have had VR compaibility patched in - so I wouldn't need to pay a penny extra to play Elite Dangerous/Euro Truck Simulator/Vanishing of Ethan Carter/Dirty Rally and a tonne of others since I already own them in my library and never bought them specifically for VR. 

PSVR also comes with Worlds which is a collection of minigames.

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One other thing that the PSVR will differ in from the PC VR equivalents is the whole fixed spec thing again.  Not just of the console but of the VR helmet/goggles themselves.  I suspect they'll stay the same spec for the lifetime of the PS4 so if you are ok with the lower FOV and whatever else then really that's you set for VR for the next few years.  Sony not releasing an upgraded spec year after year fits with the console mindset of fixing the hardware.  

 

I'm not sure what we're expecting in the PC space.  Now that Oculus has gone to final hardware and shipping soon , when do we expect a "better" version?  Next year?  Longer?

 

 

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If our current games comparison thread is anything to go by, then I look forward to the next few years of Digital Foundry VR game side-by-sides on here, where certain PC gamers feign surprise that their Lamborghini can outrace a Ford Focus.

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