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Neil Gaiman's Sandman - Now Netflix/WB co-production


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1 hour ago, Harsin said:

Probably a rights thing.

Doesn't DC own him too? Or do you think Mr Morrison has a stake? Seems unlikely knowing how they usually treat creators in the industry. 

 

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1 hour ago, cassidy said:

Doesn't DC own him too? Or do you think Mr Morrison has a stake? Seems unlikely knowing how they usually treat creators in the industry. 

 


There's an HBO Max Constantine series on the way I think, probably want to keep him for that. This is the company that had a caharacter who looked like the Joker, talked like the Joker and acted like the Joker, but corporate wouldn't actually let them ever use the word Joker on Gotham after all.

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It seems like most of the DC trappings are being removed from the TV version. It'll be interesting to see how it differs from the comics; I notice that Lyta Hall has been described in a Netflix Twitter thread as Rose Walker's best friend, which is a new twist.

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9 hours ago, Harsin said:


There's an HBO Max Constantine series on the way I think, probably want to keep him for that. This is the company that had a caharacter who looked like the Joker, talked like the Joker and acted like the Joker, but corporate wouldn't actually let them ever use the word Joker on Gotham after all.

 

The Jester.

The Japester.

The Josher.

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It seems like they are padding the story out a fair bit, which I guess is necessary (looking at how other half decent comic adaptions like Preacher and The Boys have been done). What with what Mr G-Man is saying about Ethel Cripps having more backstory. 

Actually really looking forward to it. The comics will always be the definitive Sandman story, I'm sure. 

Actually more excited to see how they handle fitting later storylines and incidents, like the Dream of A Thousand Cats, and the guy who makes a deal with Dream to never die. Some amazing storytelling in Sandman outside of the main story arc and I hope they keep it all in. 

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5 hours ago, Anne Summers said:

It seems like they are padding the story out a fair bit, which I guess is necessary

If they're doing 11 episodes and both Preludes, The Dolls House, and the Sound of Her Wings - there's probably enough material over the fourteen or so comics.

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1 hour ago, footle said:

If they're doing 11 episodes and both Preludes, The Dolls House, and the Sound of Her Wings - there's probably enough material over the fourteen or so comics.

Yeah. Pretty amazing thinking about how epic this could get if it can cram everything in.

Do we know they are doing those storylines though? I've read Gaiman's recent blog post but I haven't been keeping that up to date with everything about it. We know they have Rose and Death. Does Death appear before Sound of her Wings? I can't remember. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

Yeah. Pretty amazing thinking about how epic this could get if it can cram everything in.

Do we know they are doing those storylines though? I've read Gaiman's recent blog post but I haven't been keeping that up to date with everything about it. We know they have Rose and Death. Does Death appear before Sound of her Wings? I can't remember. 

 

Gaimans stated they’re filming the dolls house, and Burgess was cast previously along with the Corinthian. Pretty sure they’ll just run through: it’s not the kind of thing where you can chop and change, bar some of the single issues. So much builds from / is built upon preludes without you realising it until a reread.

 

(of course, we’ve probably only got another month or so before the spoiler police get upset about tiny references to foreshadowing of consequences in a thirty year old comic book)

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39 minutes ago, Professor Puzzles said:

That's her first appearance in the comics. I really hope they manage to do the whole story, The Kindly Ones is a magnificent climax.

 

I was a weird Sandman reader. I always wanted ongoing plot, but quickly tired of those issues (like the Brief Lives stuff), whereas the one off story collections I much prefer, like World's End, which is magnificent (Prez! in particular) and The Wake. Essentially I prefer when Dream or the Endless aren't the drivers of the narrative.

 

Except for The Kindly Ones. Love that. The art is just perfect and adds a distance to the vague silliness that I feel from, say, Brief Lives or even, gasp, Season of Mists.

 

I've always assumed SoM was a fan favourite but I don't know why, actually. 

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1 hour ago, Festoon said:

 

 

 

 

I've always assumed SoM was a fan favourite but I don't know why, actually. 

 

It's always spoken as the arc where Gaiman feels it all comes together and is often suggested as the first book for new readers instead of Preludes. Plus everybody loves Lucifer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I thought this was interesting. Legal blogger and lawyer David Allan Green was curious as to why DC hadn’t exploited the living shit out of Sandman the way they have with Watchmen - they must be tempted to publish Death vs Rorschach, or have the Joker become the new Desire or something, surely. So he asked Neil Gaiman, and he explained:

 

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/06/how-neil-gaiman-kept-control-of-the-sandman-characters/

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On 08/06/2021 at 05:31, K said:

I thought this was interesting. Legal blogger and lawyer David Allan Green was curious as to why DC hadn’t exploited the living shit out of Sandman the way they have with Watchmen - they must be tempted to publish Death vs Rorschach, or have the Joker become the new Desire or something, surely. So he asked Neil Gaiman, and he explained:

 

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/06/how-neil-gaiman-kept-control-of-the-sandman-characters/

 

Sadly, it'll probably end up like Moore in the end - Watchmen was 'protected' until Paul Levitz left, and I imagine when Marie Javins retires, the edict that protects the Endless will likely be lifted as soon as it becomes economically expedient.

 

(Although it's not like it hasn't happened - Death was in TMK LSH v38 and Daniel appeared during Morrison's JLA run, and a few others through the years already, but those were done with Gaiman's approval)

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I be honest and I take some slack for this, but I'm sad that we're not going to see the version from Death in the comics. It shouldn't matter as they're come in different forms to people, but its the version I grew up with and loved.

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11 minutes ago, yakumo said:

I be honest and I take some slack for this, but I'm sad that we're not going to see the version from Death in the comics. It shouldn't matter as they're come in different forms to people, but its the version I grew up with and loved.

 

I think that's understandable. I know Dream appeared in different forms a bit but I don't remember Death doing so. I think it's fair enough that she probably should have or that it doesn't matter that much, since she was basically drawn as manic pixie goth dream girl, in any case.

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6 hours ago, yakumo said:

I be honest and I take some slack for this, but I'm sad that we're not going to see the version from Death in the comics. It shouldn't matter as they're come in different forms to people, but its the version I grew up with and loved.

I love Death to bits, and she will always be there in the comics. I'm fine with the TV version being different. I get where you're coming from - it would be lovely if someone could do the comic version and nail it - I would like nothing more. But then it would be rubbish if someone did it and fucked it. Or just got it a little bit wrong. I think doing something other is probably wise. It gives us a chance of something new to adore alongside the existing one. Or just ignore if you don't like it. The original will always be there.

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9 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

I think that's understandable. I know Dream appeared in different forms a bit but I don't remember Death doing so. I think it's fair enough that she probably should have or that it doesn't matter that much, since she was basically drawn as manic pixie goth dream girl, in any case.

 

The thing they need to nail with Death is the kindness, wisdom and empathy, *thats* what I loved about the character, the rest is superficial. With some characters, their look is an important element of the character - the discworld's Death being a skeleton is an important factor, rather than just aesthetics it informs on his closeness, yet distance from humans, but I don't think that is as important for Sandman's Death- though, I think being youthful is an important factor in terms of look but anything beyond that doesn't seem that important to me.

 

Though, maybe contradictory, if Dream didn't look like a goth Bowie I'd be disappointed. 

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On 09/06/2021 at 21:46, Peter St John said:

 

Sadly, it'll probably end up like Moore in the end - Watchmen was 'protected' until Paul Levitz left, and I imagine when Marie Javins retires, the edict that protects the Endless will likely be lifted as soon as it becomes economically expedient.

 

(Although it's not like it hasn't happened - Death was in TMK LSH v38 and Daniel appeared during Morrison's JLA run, and a few others through the years already, but those were done with Gaiman's approval)

 

I guess the difference is that Moore's relationship with DC had collapsed years before they started making Before Watchmen and Watchmen II: Joker's Wild, with no chance of any kind of reconciliation. So from a financial perspective, there were no drawbacks to exploiting the comic further, as Alan Moore was never going to come back anyway. So long as Neil Gaiman is alive and willing to work for DC (or at least to give his blessing to projects), it makes sense to avoid making Doomsday Egg-Timer: The Sands of Death or Deadshot Kills The Endless. Gaiman wanting to come back and do another Sandman story is presumably going to garner more money and more kudos than they'd get from letting anyone else use the Sandman characters.

 

Obviously, when Gaiman dies, the risk is that it'll be open season.

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That’s all true - but Moore’s relationship with DC had died twice (Watchmen & ABC) and it still took ten years after and Levitz leaving before DC went and got the ball rolling with Before Watchmen. 
 

My concern is that the deal is totally a gentleman’s agreement and as soon as it becomes financially attractive to whoever owns DC, they'll do what they want with it. 
 

(where’s Miracleman, Neil? Where’s Miracleman?)

 

EDIT: And if the rumours about the scuttling of Vertigo were true (that it was partly due to Time Warner rubbing their hands together at all the IP…right up until they saw the creator contracts), then I think we'll see this sooner rather than later. After all, if people were willing to sign up to work on Before Watchmen, they'd jump at the chance of doing Sandman stuff.

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18 hours ago, Delargey said:

 

The thing they need to nail with Death is the kindness, wisdom and empathy, *thats* what I loved about the character, the rest is superficial. With some characters, their look is an important element of the character - the discworld's Death being a skeleton is an important factor, rather than just aesthetics it informs on his closeness, yet distance from humans, but I don't think that is as important for Sandman's Death- though, I think being youthful is an important factor in terms of look but anything beyond that doesn't seem that important to me.

 

Though, maybe contradictory, if Dream didn't look like a goth Bowie I'd be disappointed. 

 

Comics are a visual medium do I don't think you can ignore the visual aspect as part of what's appealing. 

 

I think I posted the Kindly Ones "Dream, give me your hand" sequence which has always stayed with me. It's both the inevitable conclusion of everything that's went before in a single moment AND a really striking visual. There's no way the show can recreate quite the same image now. 

 

Thing is, nothing outside the medium is going to quite recreate that image. The Kindly Ones art got flack at the time as I recall, and it's utterly amazing and my favourite. And still images like comics hit differently anyway. This maybe just makes it easier and earlier to accept they aren't gonna do my favourite scene exactly like the comic. 

 

I do think 90% of all controversy on switching up characters is really just a "it's not what I grew up with" though. 

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