Neil Gaiman's Sandman - Now Netflix/WB co-production

[kensei]

12 hours ago, Festoon said:

Um, in 24/7 when Dream is holding

 

  Reveal hidden contents

John Dee in his palm, he's just wearing a shitty T-shirt, not looking fancy at all.

 

 

I am aware, which is why I didn't say "like the comic". He's a lot more generic CW show here than in the comic and if I was adapting it would have been a good chance to throw in the star eyes etc.

 

Think it looks pretty naff regardless. Just slightly comical.

[Festoon]

1 hour ago, kensei said:

 

I am aware, which is why I didn't say "like the comic". He's a lot more generic CW show here than in the comic and if I was adapting it would have been a good chance to throw in the star eyes etc.

 

Think it looks pretty naff regardless. Just slightly comical.

 

Fair enough, the star eye thing is pretty rare, even in the comic though. Except for in the Kindly Ones, where it's extreme.

[Benny]

There is almost certainly a very good reason why they didn't give Dream starry eyes for the series: if you don't show an actor's eyes you can miss subtle expressions or aspects of their performance in terms of how they interact with the other actors.

 

I never saw it as a problem at all, and in many respects makes sense for that change given the different storytelling medium.

[LeighCb]

Although I would the probably say the strongest performance is the entire series (aside from David Thewils) is Boyd Holbrook as the Corinthian and they wear sunglasses throughout the whole thing and have teeth for eyes.

[Benny]

I'm not saying they couldn't have done it, or even if it was the best decision, but I would be very surprised if it wasn't the reason why.

 

Additionally to that, when compared to 

 

Spoiler

The Corinthian in the same shot it will "humanise" Morpheus in comparison. The Corinthian would never need to look any less than menacing, but Morpheus needs to have a much wider range presented to the audience at different points.

 

[kensei]

I wondered if there were subtle way of having it, like it sometimes being there that isn't overt. 

 

I understand the reasons why they didn't do it. But I think then they should be taking opportunities when they can - there's a fair number of close up panels in the comics that do it. Just seemed like a good time to do it

 

Spoiler

When he got all his power back

 

4 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Fair enough, the star eye thing is pretty rare, even in the comic though. Except for in the Kindly Ones, where it's extreme.

 

The stars are rare, but Dream's eyes are almost always in shadow or pure black in the comic. 

[Bingox]

18 hours ago, kensei said:

I wondered if there were subtle way of having it, like it sometimes being there that isn't overt. 

Possibly I'm misremembering, but wasn't there a scene where you saw his reflection in some water - and the eyes looked like stars?

[deKay]

Has this been confirmed to have a second series?

[Festoon]

32 minutes ago, deKay said:

Has this been confirmed to have a second series?

 

No, no word.

[deKay]

Well bum.

[footle]

Episode Nine spoilers, but also “whole story cycle meta” spoilers.

 

Spoiler

And this isn’t the entirely straight adaptation I was expecting - clearly Lyra and Hector’s roles needed to change, but it’s a bit weird to have Gauke? be more sympathetic by not also terrorising Jeb’s foster parents (and, conversely, them much less sympathetic).

 

Also, the Corinthian being actively involved in the fairly tame murder of the “fan” (who I thought was more of an obvious journalist in the book) feels like it weakens the awfulness of the human collectors.

And fiddlers green notifying dream rather than Matthew?!

 

On the broader meta narrative, they’re layering on the theme of Dream changing far more than the comics ever did and earlier. It doesn’t feel like we’ve really had him properly set up as a vengeful arsehole, and so beats like the forgiveness of Nada will be trickier to land. The worst behaviour we’ve really had is sending someone to sleep and being a tad snippy at lucienne. I’m not sure turning hector to dust counts, though it might have been meant to.

Perhaps that’s Gaiman rewriting with hindsight at this point - the script published in Dream Country does mention that halfway through The Dolls House he had no idea how the various threads and convention was going to work or come to any sort of conclusion.

 

Perhaps it’s just that a fully alien, uncaring (but vengeful) anthropomorphic personification of nightmares might be a difficult protagonist.
 

I suspect there’s enough comic spoilers in there, @deKay.

[Peter St John]

Further season thoughts:

 

Spoiler

Season 2: Season of Mists / Emperor Norton / A Game of You / Midsummer's Night Dream

 

(I don't think you can make a full season out of Mists even if you throw in a backdoor pilot for The Dead Boy Detectives in it. (besides apparently they're already in Doom Patrol…which is a choice)

 

Season 3: Calliope / Orpheus / Thermidor / Brief Lives / World's End (maybe)

 

Weave in the back story on Orpheus as Dream and Delirium spend the series on their quest. You could throw in a final episode that does a truncated version of the World's End arc to have another appearance by Hob and the tale of Litharge.

 

Season 4: The Kindly Ones / The Wake / The Tempest

 

Let's burn all the things! I guess you're also going to need more Lyta in Season 2 and 3 to make this work…

 

[footle]

Spoiler for Peter.

 

Spoiler

They've already shot Calliope and Dream of Cats.

 

I suspect it's Calliope, Dream of Cats as a Christmas Special.

 

then Season Two - open with Tales in the Sand (you need this before Seasons of Mists, and you should reintroduce Nada who's currently had about a minute of screentime), Season of Mists, A Midsummer Night's Dream, A Game of You

 

I suspect Facade just gets ignored.

[Peter St John]

Aha, I was wondering if they'd skip Cats due to expense…but I imagine it'll do wonders for their profile on the Internet

 

Yeah, given its DC ties, I wasn't expecting Facade to get filmed. I think large chunks of Fables & Reflections won't make it either, but I feel Norton has a decent stab due to being one of the most popular issues and ties in with Desire's plans.

[Festoon]

I'm presuming A Game of You would be interspersed as a B-plot maybe?

[Bucky]

It's a brilliant adaptation.  It's strange, the comic meanders all over the place and that suits the comic well, but I generally expect TV to be more propulsive, more directional, so I struggle with this a bit.

 

The performances are excellent.  Absurd mixing with serious to great effect.  

 

The Lucien performance is particularly good; precise but not cold.  Voice tone and body language just nailed.

 

It's thoughtful and a miles better adaptation than we thought we'd get.  The best thing WB have done with DC (I thought The Batman was pretty cool as well).

[Festoon]

 

[Darren]

We’ve just watched 24/7 and The Sound of Her Wings and they might just be the best two consecutive episodes of anything ever.

[Garibaldi]

Enjoying it so far, but the casting of Patton Oswalt as the raven felt vestigial. Like at one point they’d intended for that character to be more comical before course correcting, only they’d already hired Oswalt etc etc. It’s such a jarring choice when everything else feels carefully considered. I hope he’s not in it much past episode 4. 

[kensei]

I have only one thing to say

Spoiler

MARTIN TENBONES 

 

 

[kensei]

Actually no, I've more. It remains painfully uneven

 

Spoiler

Of the last batch, Playing House was a really good episode but the rest just didn't really click for me. Occasionally bored. I think the problem is the convention was always a rather daft gimmick and that sort of absurdity is easier to get away with in comics.

 

I didn't like the lack of subtlety either. Lucienne's Basil Exposition eased a bit but the change in relationship was a package of things designed to go MORPHEUS IS CHANGING. Comic Morpheus is just not letting that nightmare out to be nice to it, at least at that point. Morpheus is not a particularly likeable character, at least in the traditional sense.

 

It's a much slower burn in the comic and I don't think it really even starts to take shape until Season of Mists and Nada. Plus it has such features as Morpheus being more forgiving by er, torturing someone who abused an ex lover for all eternity. The benefit of the slow burn is I think that helps Brief Lives and The Kindly Ones land better.

 

Speaking of Mists, I didn't like the whole setup but at the end either. The whole thread is the only change I really actively dislike and this "God will hate it ahaha" just seems like hamming it up. I'm just concerned the entirety of Mists will annoy the shit out of me, despite it being one of the stronger comic arcs.

 

It's not all bad - Rose was good, Desire was good, it became a bit more confident in itself and the effects work definitely improved. Some of the changes streamlined things in a sensible way too - having Jed be the Sandman was a better fit. 

 

Probably nudges up to 3.5/5 overall for me. I'd still like to see a Season 2.

[footle]

On 15/08/2022 at 16:43, Peter St John said:

Aha, I was wondering if they'd skip Cats due to expense…but I imagine it'll do wonders for their profile on the Internet

And it’s out for the weekend, before everything disappears in a hail of house of the dragon discourse on Sunday night/Monday.

[Boozy The Clown]

 

 

Now Streaming.....

[Benny]

Dropping random episodes of stuff is one desperate way to claw subscribers back after they binge your stuff I guess.

[Festoon]

This is a bizarre strategy.

 

Presumably gets the old Netflix stats up, or something?

[gospvg]

So is this worth watching? I always worry about new shows getting canned after the first season so don't bother starting. I've caught up with Stranger Things/Better Call Saul & have Witcher Season 2 to start this evening.

[Festoon]

3 hours ago, footle said:

And it’s out for the weekend, before everything disappears in a hail of house of the dragon discourse on Sunday night/Monday.

 

Is Dragon House expected to be a success? It just look like more GoT. Which I suppose is what people want.

[Peter St John]

3 hours ago, footle said:

And it’s out for the weekend, before everything disappears in a hail of house of the dragon discourse on Sunday night/Monday.

meow, that’s bizarre. (Leaving autocorrect that somehow changed wow to meow because maybe Siri has been infected by the cats). I guess it makes the breakdown of Season 2 easier, but what an odd choice!

[footle]

7 hours ago, gospvg said:

So is this worth watching? I always worry about new shows getting canned after the first season so don't bother starting. I've caught up with Stranger Things/Better Call Saul & have Witcher Season 2 to start this evening.

 

Yes, and if it does get cancelled you'll have got the less good volumes of the comic out of the way...

[Kodamarama]

Got a couple of eps left. Generally good, albeit some uneven quality and sometimes sails perilously close to smug. Casting’s on point.