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Shenmue III - PS4/PC | Out Now!

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5 hours ago, dumpster said:

 

I totally get how this sounds.  How can you complain that a Shenmue game has bad dialogue, cutscenes etc? How can you complain about the slow pace? It's SHENMUE for crying out loud!  But videogame development has changed beyond recognition since the Dreamcast and where the originals cost millions to make and nearly bankrupted Sega, the current generation has the advantages of the established 3D engines such as Unreal, and the significantly more powerful hardware that can do much more than the Dreamcast could have ever achieved. This game had the Kickstarter backing, the Sony backing, the goodwill of the fans and most importantly it was on sale at release for £50 in stores.  I know this will upset the hardcore Shenmue fans (of which I consider myself one), but this game is pretty mediocre for 2019 and if they changed the characters and gave it a different name no-one would be giving it the time of day.  Shenmue was a product of its time, a series of two wonderful games which left a story unfinished.  I think, having played this for a few evenings I would have preferred them to leave it alone.  They've made another instalment but it doesn't have the magic.  If they ask full price, they need to up their game.   

 

 

I agree and I also think that people defending Shenmue 3 against every criticism ("it's always been like that") contribute to the series' lack of development. Somehow Yu must have been convinced that Shenmue is a about mini games and that it's okay to have lines instead of dialogue (fully agree with you on that one. Personally, this is a huge letdown.) and to send Ryo from A to B to C to find out that he needs to talk to D, because for diehard fans this is what Shenmue is about. That's one big fallacy. 

As I said above, many of the design choices are so ridiculous that I can't even begin to wonder what the devs were thinking. I would have expected Yu to have learned some sort of budget discipline and not waste money e.g. on the food system. After all, he must have learned something from the big budget lessons that were Shenmue 1 and 2 on DC. Or so I thought. 

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Even as a huge fan, I can concede that Day 1 is messy. Lots of oddly stitched together cutscenes, walled off aread, serious stamina depletion, among others. However once you are let off the leash to do as you please, I was never bored.

Stamina bothering you? go train. Want to learn to fight? go train. Want to earn money? go fishing, pick "erbs" (why do americans say this), go gambling, chop some wood.

You can't really rush a game like this. The more you play, the more the 'strangeness' i.e cut scene transitions, dialogue issues, become less frequent to the point they aren't there at all. I'd guess that the introduction was chopped and changed around due to budgets changing etc and that's why the opening couple of days have 'stitching' issues. Remember at one point it was just going to be a series of QTEs and cut scenes and there wouldn't have been any traditional Shenmue gameplay at all.

 

The beauty of the mini games is the simplicity and hidden depth. it's all about timing. Try and beat my wood chop score on the previous page. Not to brag but you'll see how difficult it actually is to nail those excellents and very good - and when you do and the afterburner theme kicks in you'll feel like a wood choppin bad ass. Same with the one inch punch. The timing's quite strict to get maximum gains from training, as it should be. You get it right, the impact sound and dummy struggling to stay upright sell the impact of the punch. Later on, Ryo's stance and technique become more solid, so you can actually see the improvement. The games in the arcade at panda market are more complex if that's your thing, the whackamole game, QTE boxing are great fun. There's a purpose to all this too, whether it's improving your stats, earning money, tickets for the prize exchange -  all the systems tie into each other nicely.

 

On New Game + all of your training carries over and I can run from one end of the village to the other and lose less than 2 health points. It's all about training to improve yourself, a real martial arts experience. :D Ryo is like the Japanese Rocky. That's probably why I love it so much.

 

Shenmue III is a story set in the 1980's about a guy who wears a jacket with a tiger on the back

 

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He is on a quest for vengeance after someone he loves is killed by a superior fighter

 

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He seeks the help of an old grandmaster who forces him to catch chickens

 

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During his quest he will chop wood

 

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and meet up with a quiet timid woman who wears interesting hats who will shape his destiny

 

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LAN DI.....MY DOJO'S OUTSIDE :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, Down by Law said:

Even as a huge fan, I can conceed that Day 1 is messy. Lots of oddly stitched together cutscenes, walled off aread, serious stamina depletion, among others.

Your post is very reassuring, i will stick this out and keep going.

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It's a big game - real big. My first run through was about 40 hours , my NG+ i'm about 15 hours in and still in the village.


There's a whole second city. Bailu is more like Shenmue and Niawou Shenmue II. I really like both locations. They open up as you play, you'll be quite surprised at how big the Village is.

 

That said I will say that Horse Stance never gets more exciting - but all training has it's high's and lows, right? :)

----

Also here's some combat tips I previously posted that may help :

 

Quote

 

For anyone struggling with combat, remember triangle starts strings, so triangle x 4 is an all punch combo, triangle then squares leads to kicks, circle to different punches and the like. 

Triangle x3 then square ends with a head kick for example, triangle then square, square, square is a jab followed by a knee, side kick then head kick.

Holding block (lt) then usually a combo of face buttons are power moves eg double blow, sword kick, etc. 

When blocking you'll notice a block meter in the bottom left decreases with each hit so you have to move or parry with a well timed block to stop taking damage 

In a fight (non sparring) if your health is on the yellow portion and you sidestep at just the right time, you go into a bullet time counter phase that leads to big damage. Try ground sweep (you can buy the book from Tao Get, - the woodchopping bloke, X,X is the command) into elbow assault (x,o,o or bind to R2) and that will destroy low level enemies.

During sparring whichever trainable moves you have cycled to with R1 will occasionally pop up as a QTE. Nailing that will boost the level of that move regardless of if it hits or not. 

It's worth spending a day sparring at Martial Hall to learn this stuff. Doing 1 inch punch and horse stance increase stamina and endurance too so you don't need to eat as often. By the time Stamina is Level 9, you can run around for ages without having to eat.

And remember sparring is exactly that you aren't trying to kill the guy, use it to practise moves, timing and spacing

 

 

 

 

There's' also a slow-mo dodge mechanic , I've put a video up on the previous page. There's a good amount of depth to the fighting provided you're willing to put the time in.

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16 hours ago, alex3d said:

Oh you lucky PC players. You can use mods to get rid of the energy drain while running. https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/index.php?threads/release-shenmue-iii-misc-mods-classic-camera-npc-fixes-and-more.2518/

 

Absolutely unbelievable that they spent time and money on developing such a ridiculous game element. 


Or you can just up your stamina and it effectively goes away anyway.

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Otherwise you fundamentally break one of the integral aspects of the game about making your Kung Fu better through dedication and eating well in the process.

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Having a little time to reflect, I'm barely anywhere into the game really and the other post above is very positive about what is to follow.  I think my disappointment boils down to one point.  So far, this is what I would have expected from a Kickstarter fan game.  This has Sony etc behind it as well and was released at £50 so my expectations were raised.  For example, the voice acting seems a deliberate design choice to make it fit with the previous instalments but the weird sentences, dodgy editing, fades in and out etc are all things I'd tolerate from a fan product made from love and enthusiasm, but a commercial release at £50 should have these issues fixed.   I will plod on however as it sounds like maybe these complaints are specific to the introduction village.

 

Also, i like typing.

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Hey @Down by Law perhaps you can help! 
 



I’m at the stage where - despite completely kicking his arse twice - I’m asking Weapon shop owners about the Boss guy’s animal derived martial arts style. 
 

How far from the end am I? I can’t really tell.

  

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42 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Having a little time to reflect, I'm barely anywhere into the game really and the other post above is very positive about what is to follow.  I think my disappointment boils down to one point.  So far, this is what I would have expected from a Kickstarter fan game.  This has Sony etc behind it as well and was released at £50 so my expectations were raised.  For example, the voice acting seems a deliberate design choice to make it fit with the previous instalments but the weird sentences, dodgy editing, fades in and out etc are all things I'd tolerate from a fan product made from love and enthusiasm, but a commercial release at £50 should have these issues fixed.   I will plod on however as it sounds like maybe these complaints are specific to the introduction village.

 

Also, i like typing.

 

No I think that's fair enough. I don't think Sony have offered any assistance financially or done any promotion of it, especially since Deep Silver came on board. They announced the support at the original kickstarter, as it was meant to be a digital only release that they would host on PSN. Of course, with Deep Silver coming on as publisher all of that changed.

 

This is why I think the start , in regards to cutscene / dialogue direction, it feels quite slapdash. On release day Yu put out a kickstarter update stating the scope of the project changed multiple times during development due to funding streams etc.

 

I think it's a phenomenal achievement what they have achieved with the budget, hopefully with all these systems now in place and working Shenmue IV won't be too far behind and will be a big leap in scope, storytelling and mechanics like Shenmue II was to the original game.

 

When you think Bloodstained earned 5.5 million and Shenmue III 7 million....look at the difference in size scope and ambition and what's been delivered. Not taking anything away from Bloodstained but an authentic Shenmue experience on this budget...from scratch....mind boggling IMO

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I hope it continues, and I hope they improve the production values as they go.  There's no real need to make it resemble the original games quite so closely (see how if you watch Star Wars movies in sequence the last films are CGI epics that don't look like the originals at all).  My worry overall is that it's not been selling too well, it doesn't look much like a current gen game (imagine hearing all the wonderful stories of Shenmue from your parents and buying Shenmue 3 as your first entry into the games, you'd be like, what the hell is this?), and if sales of Shenmue are poor then maybe they won't get to make a Shenmue 4, leaving the originals as the groundbreaking games they always were, and Shenmue 3 a weird anomaly that happened 20 years later for reasons.  

   

I'm really surprised to see Bloodstained, my game of the year, only earned 5.5 million - it's a fantastic bit of work that. Deserved much more.

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Just to add as well, in case there's anyone in the world who doesn't know this, but if you like Shenmue you really should try Deadly Premonition.  It has awful graphics and dodgy voice acting, and there's an opening section thatis 30 minutes of bloody awful shooting and exploring.  But behind that there's a game that out-Shenmue's Shenmue, with a story and characters that show you how it should be done.  The fact that Deadly Premonition exists at all is amazing, but as an example of how to create a stunning adventure on a very low budget, Deadly Premonition really delivers.

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Some of us here just love Shenmue. You probably really don't Dumpster. That is absolutely fine. But I'm not going to play Deadly Premonition, and it will absolutely not out-Shenmue Shenmue. Because nothing can. Neither can Yakuza. Or Sleeping Dogs. Sorry. They're not Shenmue.

 

My take on this game is yeah, some of the criticism is valid. I'm not blind. There are rough edges here and there and things that could have been looked at like the stamina etc. But it's still Shenmue, and when I sit back and look at it, it's exactly what I would have wanted for the third in the series. I've only just left the village and I already miss it. That's how Shenmue it is, which is a sign to me that it's the real deal. We're spending whole evenings with it, which hasn't happened in our house since what, The Wind Waker? A long time ago.

 

And what we have here is a brilliant springboard for a potential 4th game. I would imagine if there is a 4th that this will likely take a more modern approach to the game and less of a foot in the DC past. This could be a brilliant bridge between the old games and a possible new one. Maybe that won't happen, who knows. But for getting the series back to us, as a Kickstarter game, and as a love letter to the fans, this is doing an amazing job imho. I'm not worried about how it's selling, it's up to them to figure out if it was worth it. If nothing else comes after this, well I'll be sad but at least we have three brilliant games against all odds.

 

/rant over

 

I'm off to cheer myself up in Niaowu.

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Guys, seriously. You need to stop that infantile behaviour of branding people "no Shenmue lovers" whenever there is criticism. Wake up. It scored 69 on Metacritic, it's 2019, budget is limited, design choices are weird. There IS a lot to criticse and Yu is well advised to accept that criticism in order to improve Shenmue 4 and maybe achieve more financial success. If you want Shenmue to forever stay in that "no progress"-bubble, that nostalgia is absolutely okay. It's just not sustainable.

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Push Square's GOTY

 

Quote

1. Shenmue III

I’ve waited over half my adult life for the continuation of Ryo Hazuki’s tale of revenge, but dare I say it was worth the wait? Shenmue III feels like it’s stepped out of a time capsule, which is testament to the strength of director Yu Suzuki’s original vision. Objectively, I know this is not the best game of 2019, but its background alone elevates it far above its peers for me. This is a title that should have released in 2002; that it exists in 2019 on the PS4 is nothing short of remarkable.

 

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@Alex3d

 

At this point in the discussion I'm not really sure what you are so angry about. Telling folks to "wake up" and accusing them of being "infantile" is unfair just because a bunch of people like this game. No one has said the game is above criticism or otherwise intimated that it is perfect. If you've read all my post above (bit long sorry) you'll see that I am not blind to its faults but accept it for what it is, and am having a lot of fun with it. Being a massive "Shenmue lover" from the DC days is indeed a big reason why. I personally didn't want this to make too many concessions to modernity at this stage. It might have broken the fans' relationship with the series and changed the form of it too much. As it happens there have been subtle changes to the gameplay that are ripe for polishing, and hopefully we'll get those with the next game if it happens. Ultimately I think you aren't reading what people are saying and you're jumping to conclusions about their experiences with the game, and I have no idea why you're so angry that people like it.

 

 I read Retrogamer's review this morning and pretty much agreed with all of it. They gave it a 72% score at the end, which I would add another 15% to for me personally. But the review was very balanced imho.

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It's not about being angry, I think. Telling people there is "no way on earth you've played a Shenmue game before" or "Some of us here just love Shenmue. You probably really don't Dumpster" just isn't the way to go - in ANY discussion. People not entirely caught up in nostalgia might love the series as well but rightly expect some development in the series. I'm not sure if anything would have broken fans' relationship with it as there is no such homogenous thing as "the fans". When you read comments on reddit, kickstarter, over here than it's a pretty heterogenous picture with many people claiming they'd like to see closure and the story's ending. I think I count myself among them.

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14 hours ago, alex3d said:

Guys, seriously. You need to stop that infantile behaviour of branding people "no Shenmue lovers" whenever there is criticism. Wake up. It scored 69 on Metacritic, it's 2019, budget is limited, design choices are weird. There IS a lot to criticse and Yu is well advised to accept that criticism in order to improve Shenmue 4 and maybe achieve more financial success. If you want Shenmue to forever stay in that "no progress"-bubble, that nostalgia is absolutely okay. It's just not sustainable.

 

I don't think anyone is doing that, I had a cheeky pop with my banana comment but you've moaned about the stamina system on three separate occasions, and people have given you advice at how to make it more manageable which you've ignored. You also criticized that you have to make money to move the plot along, but when this was pointed out to you that you do the exact same thing in the first two games, you responded by saying nothing. People in here who love the game myself included have agreed the dialog is questionable and you can see the seems/stitching of the product but for some of us that really doesn't matter and doesn't make the game any less enjoyable. 

 

You speak about infantile behavior and post things like '30 minutes in....that dialogue" and "I would have expected Yu to have learned some sort of budget discipline and not waste money e.g. on the food system. After all, he must have learned something from the big budget lessons that were Shenmue 1 and 2 on DC. Or so I thought. " " I'd rather Yu skipped some of the "play the mini game and I tell you" crap. "

 

That's not only low effort posting but a bit insulting really. He's making a crowdfunded game vs the most expensive production of it's time so if that doesn't show an excellent use of budget I don't know what does. You may not like the Stamina system, but on one hand you complained that it's 2019 and things need to move on, so he's tried something new with this game and you said you hate it and it's a waste of time and budget.... and again, if you train your stamina up to level 9, which would take all of half an hour of training, it's really not a problem at all. Though I don't recommend you do, you seem to have made your mind up about this and the fact you posted the metacritic score as some kind of validation says it all really.

 

I'm glad he made the game he wanted to make. I don't want a load of focus tested guff. I can get that anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

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Precisely so. @alex3d, you seem to want Shenmue to get with the times and develop like modern games and it's 2019, etc. etc. but you don't really elaborate on how you'd want the game to 'get with the times'.

 

Is it just a case of the shoddy editing and stiff animations? Then we're absolutely in agreement that there's work to be done there, and hopefully things can be improved on a technical level for Shenmue 4. But even AAA graphics and animations wouldn't have changed what Shenmue 3 is, I don't think. 

 

Is it just the lack of closure to the story you're disappointed about? That's fair enough, but isn't really about 'getting with the times' or being more 2019. It's been pointed out again and again that the pace of plot development is in line with the first two games, and is also in line with Suzuki's long-term vision for the series. 

 

Is it the money-making and gate-keeping? But this is part and parcel of Shenmue's dna, and besides that there are more ways of making money in Shenmue 3 than ever before. I did the wood-chopping game precisely twice, mainly because it was boring and I'm crap at it, but also because I much preferred gambling on frogs and reeling in fish. 

 

Your argument for modernising Shenmue seems to boil down to 'make it less like Shenmue', which is the bit that a lot of us are struggling with. What would your perfect Shenmue 3 have looked like? 

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16 hours ago, Lumpy said:

Some of us here just love Shenmue. You probably really don't Dumpster.

 

2 hours ago, alex3d said:

Telling people there is "no way on earth you've played a Shenmue game before" or "Some of us here just love Shenmue. You probably really don't Dumpster" just isn't the way to go 

 

2 hours ago, Down by Law said:

I don't think anyone is doing that

 

Mate he literally quote the post on this very page.

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1 hour ago, Let us measure said:

Precisely so. @alex3d, you seem to want Shenmue to get with the times and develop like modern games and it's 2019, etc. etc. but you don't really elaborate on how you'd want the game to 'get with the times'.

 

Is it just a case of the shoddy editing and stiff animations? Then we're absolutely in agreement that there's work to be done there, and hopefully things can be improved on a technical level for Shenmue 4. But even AAA graphics and animations wouldn't have changed what Shenmue 3 is, I don't think. 

 

Is it just the lack of closure to the story you're disappointed about? That's fair enough, but isn't really about 'getting with the times' or being more 2019. It's been pointed out again and again that the pace of plot development is in line with the first two games, and is also in line with Suzuki's long-term vision for the series. 

 

Is it the money-making and gate-keeping? But this is part and parcel of Shenmue's dna, and besides that there are more ways of making money in Shenmue 3 than ever before. I did the wood-chopping game precisely twice, mainly because it was boring and I'm crap at it, but also because I much preferred gambling on frogs and reeling in fish. 

 

 

IF(!) there will be a Shenmue 4 and if it ends the story, I'll salute to Yu. Before then, it's way too early to conclude that it's a great achievement budget-wise. My concern is that putting dev time and energy into the food system, into the various mini games (could have been fewer), into artificially lengthening the game (talk to A then B then C to figure out where D is) EVEN THOUGH THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE CASE IN SHENMUE 1 AND 2 might come with negative consequences for the series. Let's not forget, it wasn't just the kickstarter money, Deepsilver too was investing money into it. And as to pace & plot development: there will be no more plot development if the series gets cancelled with Shenmue 3. That' why I would have liked to see a more stringent pace in Shenmue 3, because the risk the series ends with 3 is absolutely there.

Again, if Yu pulls Shenmue 4 and concludes the series, I'll be more than happy to ignore my problems with Shenmue 3. If the series will never see its conclusion, I'll partly blame it on what I mentioned above.

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1 hour ago, alex3d said:

the various mini games (could have been fewer), into artificially lengthening the game (talk to A then B then C to figure out where D is) EVEN THOUGH THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE CASE IN SHENMUE 1 AND 2 might come with negative consequences for the series.


:lol: Those things are exactly what Shenmue is as a game. Those combined systems are the game. Shenmue 3 is intended as a sequel to those games. You change all that, it ceases to be Shenmue.

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7 hours ago, alex3d said:

It's not about being angry, I think. Telling people there is "no way on earth you've played a Shenmue game before" or "Some of us here just love Shenmue. You probably really don't Dumpster" just isn't the way to go - in ANY discussion. 

 

Well I'll apologise for that, because it does read really bad. I genuinely didn't mean to sound a twat but too late for that. Going on Dumpster's post I wrongly assumed he hadn't played it before and could completely understand anyone new to the game not liking this one. I wasn't paying attention. Sorry folks.

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Finished it this morning, loved every minute of it.

If Yu started another Kickstarter tomorrow to make Shenmue 4 in the same fashion, I’d drop another £200 in a heartbeat.

 

Is the game perfect, no, but it IS Shenmue, warts n all.

 

I have no interest in moaning about about what’s wrong with it, it’s all minor IMO. We are so lucky just to have an opportunity to play an incarnation of this game from the original creator’s vision (time and budget permitting). That’s enough for me.

 

My biggest fear now is that the moaning wins out, because nothing’s gonna kill a chance of Shenmue 4 like the spiralling negativity that is the gaming community.

 

 

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