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Shenmue III - PS4/PC | Out Now!


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2 hours ago, Broker said:

The PC Master Race decided it was time to prove that they’re not just the best at having the most p’s, or just the best at squandering the most money on fractional performance upgrades. They’re also the best at having pointless, petty arguments about nothing, as is evidenced by them having a screaming console war that doesn’t even involve the purchase of consoles. It’s all about which free piece of software you choose to install. The battle lines have been drawn, and lengthy discussions have “feature parity” and “unfair practices” battling against “staying in business long enough to make another game” and “What? It’s free software? Just download it you weirdo.”

 

 

To be fair.  There's a difference between something 9 months in the future being announced as only available in one place vs a thing you purchased 3 years ago now being a different product than you purchased.

 

I have no particular patience for those bitching about Borderlands 3 but here this is a different product being supplied than the one that was paid for. 

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8 hours ago, Comrade said:

Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about downloading a different launcher on PC?

 

I don't even know how people begin to give this much of a fuck about something so trivial.

 

But fair play to them: they must live otherwise content, charmed lives if something like this is a problem. Right?

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1 hour ago, Dudley said:

 

To be fair.  There's a difference between something 9 months in the future being announced as only available in one place vs a thing you purchased 3 years ago now being a different product than you purchased.

 

I have no particular patience for those bitching about Borderlands 3 but here this is a different product being supplied than the one that was paid for. 

 

How much else has changed since the original pitch? Why in this instance is a pledge to support something with vague promises being treated like a sale? Are the responses to other changes proportionate to this one?

 

What if Steam has shut down in the last few years? What if they’d increased their take to 90%? It’s been three years and things are different, people are getting the product they paid for on the platform they payed for it on, just through a different free piece of software. If it was any other software we wouldn’t even be talking about it, it’s only because people are irrationally angry about this one.

 

It’s like ordering a car, finding out that you need to pick it up from the next dealership over and then demanding a refund. The minor inconvenience isn’t proportionate at all to the major outrage from entitled gamers.

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34 minutes ago, Broker said:

It’s like ordering a car, finding out that you need to pick it up from the next dealership over and then demanding a refund.

Well, not quite. If you really want to make this comparison: it's like buying a car from a certain dealership which as standard includes bluetooth connectivity, parking sensors, and a service plan as extras with all their cars. Then, after waiting three years, you get to hear three months before finally picking up your shiny new car that you need to pick it up a different dealership, which does not include those extras or any others.

 

Then as you note that's not right because you really wanted those extras and specifically chose that dealership because of those extras, there's you, Broker, standing outside screaming to anyone willing or unwilling to listen, that all those extras NOT IMPORTANT because you NEVER USE THEM, they're all NICHE EXTRAS, that you DON'T LIKE LISTENING TO MUSIC, and to STOP COMPLAINING ENTITLED BASTARD JUST LEARN TO PARK YOUR CAR.

 

Edit: I should note that I use the Epic store and bought a few games on there. I don't mind it existing or anything. But I do think it's missing quite a lot of basic features that are standard nowadays on both PC and console, and it's bit rich of Epic to invest in buying up exclusives first and fixing their storefront second instead of the other way around. Secondly, while people can be real hyperbolic on the internet, it's just not on to promise people a Steam key and then say "nah you're not getting it" months before the game launches. Steam still exists and is still popular. There's absolutely nothing stopping them distributing the game on Steam for the backers who already paid, and sell the game on Epic for everyone else. That's exactly what Metro Exodus did just a few months ago, they honoured existing pre-orders on Steam but sold the game exclusively on Epic after announcing their exclusivity deal a few months before launch.

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Except it’s nothing like that, because in the case of Shenmue it doesn’t have any online features. So instead of it being something you use every day, it’s maybe like better coffee at the dealership. Also I’m not complaining outside the dealership, I’m complaining at the discussion group comparing the two dealerships that some weirdo set up.

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Just now, Broker said:

Except it’s nothing like that, because in the case of Shenmue it doesn’t have any online features

Uuh, that makes zero difference... It has nothing to do with the game itself having certain features. Okay, so you have no idea what everyone is talking about. Fair enough, but that's even more reason to pay attention to what people are trying to explain.

 

I pre-ordered/backed Shenny 3 on PS4 fwiw

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There's definitely an odd "entitlement " for want of a better word with pc/ steam players. I think having the voice of the internet and the connection with devs for longer (comparatively) than console players has either made people that start on PC think this is "normal" or skewed people's perspectives somehow.

 

I'm not sure I care that much about the epic store for shemue 3 (although I'm an idiot that would sign up to all sorts of shit to play shemue 3) BUT if you look at almost any steam game comments section it's (often) a really weird personal wish list more than anything else.

 

I know this is a niche example but I play loads of the amazing game factorio and am on a beta release that you need to opt in on steam for and the devs release new versions every week and it's generally solid as fuck but you still get these weird comments like "this latest patch has broken this mod, could you give us a few weeks notice next time". Which I can't even think of a real world comparison, it's an unfinished game that is continually updated which allows mods that you've chosen to be on beta releases for and you're moaning to the devs that a thing they've improved in the base game has screwed up an unofficial mod. 

 

It's such a unique combination of things that is still moaned about which totally blows my mind. 

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Oh yeah, there's definitely a weirdo bias against the Epic Store because people apparently are loyal to a specific launcher? I think it's good if Steam gets some viable competition.

 

What people like @Broker don't get or want to get is that whining entitled nerds on the internet aside, it is a shitty move to not deliver the key that the customers paid for. Like I said, there's not a single reason they can't give everyone their Steam key AND sell the game on Epic exclusively. There's precedent for that, from the same damn publisher even.

 

And what Broker refuses to understand is that Epic is missing a bunch of standard QOL features that every other store, both console and PC, do have. They're standard features. Instead of using their money to bring their launcher up to speed, they're buying exclusives up first - that should be the other way around, I have no idea why one would argue otherwise.

 

In short, the existence of angry cellar dwelling man childs spouting hyperbolic furious nerd anger and righteous entitlement on social media over Epic, does not necessarily exclude the fact that this is an unnecessarily shitty move by the Shen 3 team. Going exclusive to Epic in itself is of course no problem, but it could and should have been handled much better.

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I'm not disputing any of that at all, more that there's (to me) an odd difference with the gaming market than there is in almost any other industry. 

 

Those car examples mentioned earlier proves the point, there are so many unique things to games in regards to accessibility to the games building blocks and the creators which just doesn't exist in any other medium. 

 

As an odd for instance; can anyone imagine Spielberg releasing all of the raw camera footage for a film to let anyone do with what they want and then also be on the end (and respond) to a comments thread? It's just a totally unique thing which I think doesn't do the industry many favours in a lot of respects.

 

Another thing, gamers are fucking terrible with voting with their wallets. You can have the most vitriolic, bile spitting posts and then that same person is their day one and bought the season pass without waiting for any reviews.

Or then also blaming reviewers for it somehow. 

 

And then also never congratulating devs if they actually liked the game either, it's odd. [/columbo]

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1 hour ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

And what Broker refuses to understand is that Epic is missing a bunch of standard QOL features that every other store, both console and PC, do have. They're standard features. Instead of using their money to bring their launcher up to speed, they're buying exclusives up first - that should be the other way around, I have no idea why one would argue otherwise.

 

If I’m getting the exact same game I’d rather the devs were getting paid well than the piece of software I downloaded it from had more features. My concern is the game and the people who made it, not the delivery method.

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5 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

I don't even know how people begin to give this much of a fuck about something so trivial.

 

But fair play to them: they must live otherwise content, charmed lives if something like this is a problem. Right?

 

6 hours ago, Broker said:

 

Yeah I totally misread that, that's a great idea, and could help consumers understand.

 

I disagree on exclusives though. We live in a hyper capitalist world, and exclusives are the only thing that has consistently proven to actually make a difference when there's competitions between platforms and stores. Otherwise whichever one launched first just has a de-facto monopoly that nobody ever breaks. Exclusivity is so deeply ingrained into the entire industry, with literally every company leveraging it in any way that they can, and it's a proven and popular tactic because it works. 

 

Raising ethical objections to it here on PC is utterly pointless, because there's far less actual barriers stopping people accessing the exclusives. It costs nothing to own both platforms in the PC console war, which makes the entire thing an exercise in futility that only really damages people who are irrationally invested in one of the stores and are willing to spite themselves by missing out on games they want to play on a platform they already own.

 

If the entire market has happily allowed the industry to divide them up and try to force them into paying out hundreds in subscriptions and for hardware to access exclusive games, it's unlikely that the war between two pieces of free software on the same platform is going to have an actual effect on anything. As passionate as the core enthusiasts are, they make up a tiny portion of the actual customers and only appear to be an influencial group because they are extremely vocal. That's why their concerns are ignored constantly by companies like Sony and Valve. The real money is amongst a far less informed, far less dedicated group of customers, who statistics would suggest probably already have the Epic Store installed anyway. Because of the big exclusive game that is popular at the moment. People were happily downloading and installing before it even had store functionality, in order to get acess to an exclusive game.

 

The problem is one store having features missing that I use. it's about as simple as that.  Doing exclusives means I'm majorly inconvenienced if I want to use the games in the way that I play.  I know those missing features make zero difference to YOU since you don't use them but they do to others.  To dismiss those concerns as ALL fanboy bollocks is pretty stupid

 

 

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1 hour ago, rafaqat said:

 

 

The problem is one store having features missing that I use. it's about as simple as that.  Doing exclusives means I'm majorly inconvenienced.

 

 

 

I hope you never have to learn the dictionary definition of the phrase "majorly inconvenienced".

 

It's much worse than you think it is.

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This is a weirdly ironic situation for me, because I refuse to use Steam for petty reasons and now I'm disappointed that it's too late to change my Kickstarter order from the PS4 version to the non-Steam PC version.

 

Frankly I just wish Kickstarter developers would commit to releasing DRM-free variants of their games.

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1 hour ago, schmojo said:

 

I hope you never have to learn the dictionary definition of the phrase "majorly inconvenienced".

 

It's much worse than you think it is.

And I hope you learn how to take on board someone else’s viewpoint rather than pick at one phrase and focus on that.  Great debate dude. 

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2 hours ago, Broker said:

Outside of refunds and shopping carts, the major inconvenience you’re talking about is opening a browser window. The language used in this conversation is ridiculous.

What. What?  Perhaps i’ve missed a feature of the epic store. I want to play the same game across different PC’s. How do I get my save game to sync across like it does on Xbox/PS4/Steam?

 

 

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Holy fuck.


Nearly two decades of waiting for the seemingly impossible conclusion of a game series, potentially a creative swansong for one of the 90s greatest game-making minds.

 

And the world is shitting its bed because they have too many PCs to play it on and might have to click a different icon to launch it.

 

Jesus wept.

 

That said, cloud saves are on the Epic store roadmap. And whilst behind schedule, I'd bet a shiny penny on them landing before Shenmue 3 does.

 

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Can you imagine if Microsoft release a free Xbox store app on PS4 and you had to download it and run it instead of the Playstation store and couldn't use certain PSN features but it allowed you to play Xbox exclusives on your PS4? What a bunch of cunts that would make them.

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If you wanted a PC copy of this and now you’re getting a PC copy for this with a different launcher than you’d like, and you’re genuinely upset about it, you need your head examined. 

 

Either that or thank God that your life is so wonderful that this is the sort of stuff nonsense you worry about. 

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I find it interesting that people who cared about the lack of Shenmue 3 for over 15 years are now losing their shit/demanding a refund because it's not on their PC launcher of choice.

We wanted to see what happens in the story, but not like this Yu, not on a digital store without a shopping cart...

 

It's an interesting example of echo chambers. You see the thread on outragera and everyone has their pitchforks out for the gaming outrage of the week and I'm sure it seems like a legitimate cause to fight for but then outside of that atmosphere it seems difficult for anyone to explain the big issue in a way that doesn't come off as being worked up about something utterly trivial.

 

Despite using steam for years, my experience with it has never gone beyond open steam ,click on game, play game, so if I have to replace that with open epic,click on game, play game I don't quite feel the sense of loss that others seem to.

 

If this results in the people making this game and others getting a better cut than they would have from steam and also some money for the exclusivity, then I'm all for it.

Valve/Steam didn't make Shenmue 3, they don't deserve a 30 percent cut and the more this stuff goes on the more I just think there's something really weird about this whole anti epic store thing and the mindset of a lot of pc gamers. As mentioned above a lot of them seem to be heavily invested in something that isn't about actually playing and enjoying games.

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Yes, yes, all of that. But all of you downplaying this, I will repeat: there's absolutely nothing preventing the Shenmue folks from giving their customers the Steam key that was promised while going exclusive to the Epic store and selling the game there. That's how Metro Exodus handled it when they went exclusive at the last minute. Sure, the angry nerds still complained but in that case they didn't have a leg to stand on.

 

Going exclusive to Epic in itself is not a problem. But there's a customer friendly way to handle this, and the Shenmue 3 team chose the opposite way for whatever reason. So while a lot of the complaints are overblown, they really made it more difficult for themselves by handling it this badly.

 

It's a shame that the conversation is now all about the Epic stuff, and it didn't need to be. Sure, there would have been complaints regardless, but like I said, those complaints would have been easily dismissed and ignored. Now, the angry Steam fanatics actually have a point, and that's all on the Shenmue 3 folks themselves.

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Yep sure that would seem to solve it but I'm also absolutely certain that part of the deal is about building the ecosystem, ie getting people to install and use the launcher. That's pretty huge and they have however many thousand pretty unusually hardcore gamers that they've just invested in onboarding via Shenmue...

I don't think Epic will let them out of this one. That'd be crazy from a business POV - the vast majority probably won't care that much that they are willing to boycott entirely until the Steam release.

But yes, what a mess – and such a shame it has stopped us talking about Pachinko and Lucky hit for so bloody long. 

What about that slightly creepy come-on from the Pachinko lady, eh? Script WIN!

 

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What “features” of Steam are necessary for me to double-click the Shenmue III icon on my desktop to play the game, which aren’t also in the Epic launcher preventing me from double-clicking the Shenmue III icon on the desktop to play the game?

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13 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

@Mr. Gerbik It feels to me as though people still don’t understand how Kickstarter works. 

 

What you were promised is largely irrelevant, as we’ve seen time and time again. Getting a game at all is to be considered a good outcome. 

Oh yeah, and the game then turning out to be good even - that's a goddamn miracle! I'm just saying, they said 'hey support us and we give you a Steam key' so just as a matter of goodwill they should honor their promise. And then let the anti-Epic man childs cry all they want, they would have been in the clear.

 

@pastry like I said, there is a precedent. Metro Exodus had been taking pre-orders on Steam for a year at least when a month before release they suddenly announced their Epic exclusivity and stopped taking orders on Steam. But they did honor existing purchases on Steam even if it was exclusively for sale on Epic from that point onwards. I really don't think Epic themselves are the problem here, just the suits on the Shenmue side badly misjudging the situation. Whether you love or hate the Epic store is not even the point - it's a matter of being friendly towards your customers. Either honor their promise, or offer the option to switch to another platform. 

 

Anyway, the game itself looks suitably clunky and cheesy like the originals. Maybe I should try and finally finish Shenmue 2 after all these years :lol:

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7 hours ago, Broker said:

Can you imagine if Microsoft release a free Xbox store app on PS4 and you had to download it and run it instead of the Playstation store and couldn't use certain PSN features but it allowed you to play Xbox exclusives on your PS4? What a bunch of cunts that would make them.

 

And then Microsoft started paying people to make games exclusive to said store and not on a standard PS4.

 

 

And what if Microsoft had a history of banning people for spurious reasons. Oh wait, they do.

 

I'm not saying I'm with the people demanding a refund but this is literally a bait and switch to a product which is at least slightly inferior for a number of reasons.

 

The solution was obvious of course, fulfil the KS backers on steam but only sell it on Epic.

 

 

51 minutes ago, deKay said:

What “features” of Steam are necessary for me to double-click the Shenmue III icon on my desktop to play the game, which aren’t also in the Epic launcher preventing me from double-clicking the Shenmue III icon on the desktop to play the game?

 

Cloud Save, Steam Link, Family Sharing.

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31 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Cloud Save, Steam Link, Family Sharing.

 

Steam Link works on non-Steam games and I use Google Drive for my cloud saves.

 

I guess family sharing might be a problem. How many families need to share Shenmue III though?

 

None of these things stop me playing the game, however.

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