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Shenmue III - PS4/PC | 2019

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Yes, yes, all of that. But all of you downplaying this, I will repeat: there's absolutely nothing preventing the Shenmue folks from giving their customers the Steam key that was promised while going exclusive to the Epic store and selling the game there. That's how Metro Exodus handled it when they went exclusive at the last minute. Sure, the angry nerds still complained but in that case they didn't have a leg to stand on.

 

Going exclusive to Epic in itself is not a problem. But there's a customer friendly way to handle this, and the Shenmue 3 team chose the opposite way for whatever reason. So while a lot of the complaints are overblown, they really made it more difficult for themselves by handling it this badly.

 

It's a shame that the conversation is now all about the Epic stuff, and it didn't need to be. Sure, there would have been complaints regardless, but like I said, those complaints would have been easily dismissed and ignored. Now, the angry Steam fanatics actually have a point, and that's all on the Shenmue 3 folks themselves.

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Yep sure that would seem to solve it but I'm also absolutely certain that part of the deal is about building the ecosystem, ie getting people to install and use the launcher. That's pretty huge and they have however many thousand pretty unusually hardcore gamers that they've just invested in onboarding via Shenmue...

I don't think Epic will let them out of this one. That'd be crazy from a business POV - the vast majority probably won't care that much that they are willing to boycott entirely until the Steam release.

But yes, what a mess – and such a shame it has stopped us talking about Pachinko and Lucky hit for so bloody long. 

What about that slightly creepy come-on from the Pachinko lady, eh? Script WIN!

 

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What “features” of Steam are necessary for me to double-click the Shenmue III icon on my desktop to play the game, which aren’t also in the Epic launcher preventing me from double-clicking the Shenmue III icon on the desktop to play the game?

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13 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

@Mr. Gerbik It feels to me as though people still don’t understand how Kickstarter works. 

 

What you were promised is largely irrelevant, as we’ve seen time and time again. Getting a game at all is to be considered a good outcome. 

Oh yeah, and the game then turning out to be good even - that's a goddamn miracle! I'm just saying, they said 'hey support us and we give you a Steam key' so just as a matter of goodwill they should honor their promise. And then let the anti-Epic man childs cry all they want, they would have been in the clear.

 

@pastry like I said, there is a precedent. Metro Exodus had been taking pre-orders on Steam for a year at least when a month before release they suddenly announced their Epic exclusivity and stopped taking orders on Steam. But they did honor existing purchases on Steam even if it was exclusively for sale on Epic from that point onwards. I really don't think Epic themselves are the problem here, just the suits on the Shenmue side badly misjudging the situation. Whether you love or hate the Epic store is not even the point - it's a matter of being friendly towards your customers. Either honor their promise, or offer the option to switch to another platform. 

 

Anyway, the game itself looks suitably clunky and cheesy like the originals. Maybe I should try and finally finish Shenmue 2 after all these years :lol:

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7 hours ago, Broker said:

Can you imagine if Microsoft release a free Xbox store app on PS4 and you had to download it and run it instead of the Playstation store and couldn't use certain PSN features but it allowed you to play Xbox exclusives on your PS4? What a bunch of cunts that would make them.

 

And then Microsoft started paying people to make games exclusive to said store and not on a standard PS4.

 

 

And what if Microsoft had a history of banning people for spurious reasons. Oh wait, they do.

 

I'm not saying I'm with the people demanding a refund but this is literally a bait and switch to a product which is at least slightly inferior for a number of reasons.

 

The solution was obvious of course, fulfil the KS backers on steam but only sell it on Epic.

 

 

51 minutes ago, deKay said:

What “features” of Steam are necessary for me to double-click the Shenmue III icon on my desktop to play the game, which aren’t also in the Epic launcher preventing me from double-clicking the Shenmue III icon on the desktop to play the game?

 

Cloud Save, Steam Link, Family Sharing.

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31 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Cloud Save, Steam Link, Family Sharing.

 

Steam Link works on non-Steam games and I use Google Drive for my cloud saves.

 

I guess family sharing might be a problem. How many families need to share Shenmue III though?

 

None of these things stop me playing the game, however.

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54 minutes ago, deKay said:

 

I guess family sharing might be a problem. How many families need to share Shenmue III though?

During Christmas time, every family should share Shenmue :wub:

 

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3 hours ago, Dudley said:

I'm not saying I'm with the people demanding a refund but this is literally a bait and switch to a product which is at least slightly inferior for a number of reasons.

 

The product is identical, you’re just acquiring it from a different place. The game, the thing you are buying from them, is identical, just delivered from somewhere else.

 

On Shenmue 3 Steam keys, perhaps the completely idiotic response to Metro making that gesture, that still involved boycotts and review bombs and had no visible effect on sales convinced other devs that there’s no point pandering to this particular crowd, as they’ll be angry with you whatever you do as long as Epic are still involved.

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Look at this game. It looks bloody ridiculous. Is this what anyone thought Shenmue produced in 2019 would look like?

 

The good ship Shenmue 3 is strung together with blue tack and packing tape and people expect them to be switched on enough to be able to spend time and effort sorting out some Steam keys for a bunch of people who’ve already given them their money. 

 

Madness. 

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5 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

Look at this game. It looks bloody ridiculous. Is this what anyone thought Shenmue produced in 2019 would look like?

 

 

No, it looks way better than I could ever have hoped for :wub:

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Didn't they say this was twice as long as the previous ones? I think they'd have been better keeping it the same size, but making it twice as polished. It's not like those games didn't have lots of filler already.

 

You've gone from best-of-era facial animation to - well, even infamously terrible Steam Greenlight stuff like Crying Is Not Enough looks better, and that was made by 2 people.

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54 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

The product is identical, you’re just acquiring it from a different place. The game, the thing you are buying from them, is identical, just delivered from somewhere else.

 

 

I literally posted 3 reasons it is not identical shortly before your post.

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Playing a game across multiple devices, on a different screen or letting other people play them aren’t features of the game. They’re additional estates of the launcher that don’t have anything to do with the game that was paid for. Cloud saves and such aren’t features of Shenmue 3, so you weren’t sold them. The features of that game are identical on either platform, which is where the variance is.

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7 hours ago, partious said:

As mentioned above a lot of them seem to be heavily invested in something that isn't about actually playing and enjoying games.

 

That’s because they *are* invested in it. Not metaphorically, in the very real sense that they’ve spent a lot of money on Steam. And not just on games. Steam is a thing where you click a game and play it, but it’s also basically a free to play game. You can sell crappy Steam cards because people buy them. They do the activities in Steam sales to get badges. They care what level their profile is. Etc.

 

Steam was absolutely hated when it was launched, and especially when it was a requirement for installing Half Life 2...How fucking dare they, I’ve bought the CD, I own it. Valve got around that by improving the platform and adding new features, sure. But that isn’t that important in it being accepted. They have been aggressive in getting people addicted to it. It’s not just badges and stuff, it was the (genuine) excitement about their sales when they changed on a daily basis and you had to know to not buy it at a standard reduction because it might be in a flash sale at 3am and you’d save an extra 15% or something. And that sort of buying mentality, plus the off store bundles, means people have wasted a ridiculous amount of money on Steam. They’re literally addicted to it. 

 

And it all boils down to fear they’re going to lose it all if the Epic Store (or Origin, or Uplay, or the Windows Store) starts gaining ground. It’s whatever the digital shopping equivalent of a memento mori is. Epic exclusives are a reminder that people are invested in one corporation and are vulnerable because of that. And so they’re being defensive.

 

It’s nothing to do with shopping carts, really. 

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12 hours ago, Broker said:

Can you imagine if Microsoft release a free Xbox store app on PS4 and you had to download it and run it instead of the Playstation store and couldn't use certain PSN features but it allowed you to play Xbox exclusives on your PS4? What a bunch of cunts that would make them.

 

Problem being that MS's save game sync is a fuck load better than Sony's so in my case it would be in improvement.  so yeah, keep digging to make your non existent point about features that YOU don't use.  :)

 

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37 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

I literally posted 3 reasons it is not identical shortly before your post.

 

None of them are things he personally uses so therefore they don't exist as far as he's concerned.  

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Steam Link use isn't even a valid reason to want it for Steam over Epic - the Steam Link didn't come out until 6 months AFTER the Shenmue 3 kickstarter. Literally nobody signed up for Shenmue 3 so they could use it on a Steam Link.

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32 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

Problem being that MS's save game sync is a fuck load better than Sony's so in my case it would be in improvement.  so yeah, keep digging to make your non existent point about features that YOU don't use.  :)

 

 

You're an adult whining online about being "majorly inconvenienced" by not being able to play the same thing across all your PCs, and attempting to present your ultra priviliaged life as some sort of normal standard, and the lack of features only a massively wealthy subset can use as some sort of wide ranging consumer issue. I don't really feel the need to try to "dig myself" out of anything, I'm happy to stand by the point that the first world problems squealing of Steam's weirdo fanbase is irrelevant bullshit that nobody in a position of power will ever pay any attention to. You stick to screaming about Epic being bad because you can't use all your PC's. We can meet back here in ten years when this is irrelevant and all people actually remember are the games, and I'm sure you'll still be very upset.

 

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1 hour ago, Broker said:

Playing a game across multiple devices, on a different screen or letting other people play them aren’t features of the game. They’re additional estates of the launcher that don’t have anything to do with the game that was paid for. Cloud saves and such aren’t features of Shenmue 3, so you weren’t sold them. The features of that game are identical on either platform, which is where the variance is.

Arguing that people are overreacting is one thing (I agree), but arguing that there isn't a problem at all because the "platform isn't the game"... is quite another.

 

The platform is part of the PRODUCT that was offered. I chose "Shenmue on Steam" and I'm not getting "Shenmue on Steam". I'm getting "Shenmue on Epic", which isn't as good. That the "Shenmue" part of the product is the same is besides the point.

 

It's not a big deal and I'm not whining about it, but it could have been handled better. Surely you can see how being blanket dismissive of it being a problem at all is just making more and more people double down and argue that it is a problem.

 

I mean I basically agree with you and you've managed to make me argue with you that it's a problem. Good going! Maybe give it a rest.

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33 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

You're an adult whining online about being "majorly inconvenienced" by not being able to play the same thing across all your PCs, and attempting to present your ultra priviliaged life as some sort of normal standard

 

 

and you're a supposed adult whining about other people whining without understanding that others play their games differently to you.  I'll from this moment on accept that YOU are fine with it all.  Time for you to accept that it might not be fine for me.

 

also. I'm not trying to present my multiple hardware nirvana as the norm.   It's the way I play.  That's why I feel I can complain about it.  Really simple really. 

 

Pfft.  In ten years I'm sure we'll have cloud saves if Epic follow their trello board plan ;)

 

 

 

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Is the problem it's on epic more that people aren't getting what they thought they backed and are therefore getting worried about other things mentioned in the kickstarter not happening?

 

As gerbik says, it's got an easy work around, they just buggered up the message. 

 

In general terms I'd also rather not have lots of stores/ launchers on my PC as much as I don't want loads of different streaming services ideally. Perhaps cluttering up your PC is more of an issue to some people than cluttering up the space under their TV. 

 

I wonder both how "outraged" these people are in real terms and also why people can't understand that there's a possibility that some people that backed the game may not like this decision out of the blue. 

 

Personally it's just a miracle the thing is even looking like it might come out in on anything. I'd reinstall fucking Packard Bell navigator. 

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Any real issues buried in this are being completely overshadowed by it becoming part of the anti-Epic bandwagon that people are desperate to jump on. That’s why these minor issues, that I see are real issues for a few people, are being blown out of proportion and described with a level of hyperbole that is insane. It’s fine for you to say that you’re disappointed to not play it on steam, it’s the people presenting it as a universal consumer issue or a legal one that are being misleading.

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8 minutes ago, Sprite Machine said:

Arguing that people are overreacting is one thing (I agree), but arguing that there isn't a problem at all because the "platform isn't the game"... is quite another.

 

The platform is part of the PRODUCT that was offered. I chose "Shenmue on Steam" and I'm not getting "Shenmue on Steam". I'm getting "Shenmue on Epic", which isn't as good. That the "Shenmue" part of the product is the same is besides the point.

 

Nope. You haven't read Kickstarter's terms and conditions. You did NOT choose. You contributed to FUNDING a product which might look different in its final form than the Kickstarter campaign suggested or which might never be released at all.

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Which I assume is why they aren’t bothering to generate Steam codes. I’m betting the legal sales of Metro through Steam had to be honoured as they were just that. Having provided funding rather than buying something is assumedly why they’re not obliged to do the same with Shenmue.

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