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How do you feel about HD remakes?


Timmo
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I just excitedly clicked Eurogamer's 10/10 Wind Waker HD review pretty much ready to buy a WiiU, because I assumed that the high score was going to be because a ton of new content was added. ie the content we should have had first time which they famously cut.

Turns out it's basically a new difficulty mode (which can't have taken a morning to program), a couple of minor additions and a lick of paint.

I realise I don't have to buy these remakes etc etc, but if I'm being charged full price for something 10 years old with a graphical update I expect more game. Game of the Year Editions are released at the same price as the original (or less) but (usually) have a ton more stuff.

At least Wind Waker HD will look amazing. DMC collection put me off these things completely. It actually manages to look worse than the originals, because they couldn't even be bothered to re-do the menus. I hear Silent Hill suffers even worse. Resident Evil 4 is my favourite game but the 360 version looks worse than the Gamecube one.

So yeah, I'm out. Do you think we should expect more from these re-releases? Re-released albums or films tend to have considerable extra content. Games tend to just be a graphical update, and half the time they mess that up.

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I just excitedly clicked Eurogamer's 10/10 Wind Waker HD review pretty much ready to buy a WiiU, because I assumed that the high score was going to be because a ton of new content was added. ie the content we should have had first time which they famously cut.

Get with the program, Timmo :quote: It was announced ages ago that the HD remake would feature no new dungeons. Missed opportunity and all that, I know.

Tbh, I think a 10 is somewhat generous. But I'm all up for playing Wind Waker again, and in HD. The 'cube original looks horrible on a LCD screen, imo.

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It's a good idea, if only to keep the best console games from disappearing into obscurity. It's not dissimilar to the way old games are modded and kept compatible on PC through fans and companies like GOG. Only they try to charge you full price for it, because Nintendo.

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The collection ones have generally been good depending on who's done them (the Bluepoint ones are very good, the Konami ones are bad). It's nice to have old games as you remember them rather than as they were.

I think that specific example is Nintendo filling a hole in a release lineup more than anything, they've been relying on that quite a bit lately.

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Yep, they don't have a new Zelda anywhere close to ready so they're rolling out an old one. It kind of makes sense, though Wind Waker has been successfully emulated with beautiful results for years now. I can't see it being a system seller, as much as I like Wind Waker.

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I think it very much depends on the game; Where games were really pushing the last gen, an HD remake can be really worthwhile. The ICO and SotC HD remakes are fantastic, as is MGS; especially 3. However, these tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

But where games ran fine and looked great in the original, then I don't see much value in remakes; other than to be able to play games again that you liked (and more often than not, they aren't quite as good as you remember)

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I think it's a good thing generally. I usually clear out my old consoles after a gen is done, so to have the ability to replay some old favourites all HD'ed up (and with better framerates and/or 3D like Ico/SotC remake) is a good thing in my opinion. I was very happy when Rez HD was released for example. There are quite some ambitious games running on the current consoles that really stretch the system and would benefit from a next-gen "HD-er" update with better framerates and resolutions and more detail, The Last of Us and GTA V being two recent examples.

I do think asking full price for remakes/remasters of old games is pushing it a bit though.

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I like them, assuming they've been done with some degree of effort and care. Extra content isn't something I fell is necessary, but the price should reflect it. £25 for 2 games with a new lick of paint but no real new content is ok with me, £40 for just one game with a lick of paint but no sizeable content addition not so much.

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I think it's a good thing generally. I usually clear out my old consoles after a gen is done, so to have the ability to replay some old favourites all HD'ed up (and with better framerates and/or 3D like Ico/SotC remake) is a good thing in my opinion. I was very happy when Rez HD was released for example. There are quite some ambitious games running on the current consoles that really stretch the system and would benefit from a next-gen "HD-er" update with better framerates and resolutions and more detail, The Last of Us and GTA V being two recent examples.

I do think asking full price for remakes/remasters of old games is pushing it a bit though.

I loved Rez and love Rez HD, wouldn't have bought it as anything other than for a tenner on XBLA though, even so. Last of Us is a weird example for me, I didn't have any issue with how it ran or looked really. Maybe a slight lack of crispness compared to some PC stuff but it's not like it wasn't done justice in the way some games are - I'd be hard pressed to suggest much from this gen that really needs re-releasing to make enough improvement for it to be worthwhile.

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I guess that's varying mileage for everybody. As I play a lot of PC games and have a background in 3D graphics (meaning I know and almost immediately see any shortcuts taken), I find most modern console game that squeeze every bit of performance out of the hardware sometimes a bit hard to look at at times. Not that they're ugly or unplayable or anything, but if they'd be available in full 1080p running at a steady 30 or 60fps without popup/texture drawin etc. on the next generation I think some of them would be much improved. The Assassin's Creed is another example. Try playing it on the PS3/360 and then on well specced PC. The difference is pretty huge.

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It is hard for somebody who owned the Wind Waker on the cube not to feel a bit conned by the Wind Waker re-release. Full price release for a graphical update? Sorry, that money will get me a game which will provide me with new gameplay experiences. I know some work must have gone into it, but this must be trifling compared to the years of late nights and design decisions related to building a new Zelda game from scratch.

On the whole, however, I think re-releases of classic titles are a great thing. Provided that they represent value for money. Ico&SoTC, or the Hitman collection, each for £20 seems pretty reasonable to me. A bargain for people introduced to the series recently and want to play them properly for the first time, and a decent price point for people who wish to replay their favourites from the last generation of consoles. A quick buck for the publisher who wants to make some money from their back catalogue. This is something which should certainly be encouraged. How great a deal would it be to get Borderlands 1+2 GOTY for the XBone or the PS4 for £20? Or re-release the Orange Box with Portal 2 for the new consoles six months before Half Life 3 finally makes an appearance? Great games are usually still great to play a few years later, and can serve to whet the appetite of the public before the next instalment is released.

TL:DR – Re-releases of great games is a good thing. But please do not price them at a point alongside today’s AAA titles.

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I think they're very important, for much the same reasons as I think backwards compatibility is important. If we want videogames to be a valuable cultural and artistic media, then continuing to make its back catalogue available is just as important as making sure old films get digital or HD re-releases, or music albums get remastered and/or re-released, or that books get additional print runs, or whatever.

Price points and bonus content are just squabbling over details. Prices are flexible, Wind Waker HD won't be £40 forever, but it will be available to play on the current hardware for as long as it functions, which is great, even if I don't personally want to buy it.

I just finished playing Shadow of the Colossus HD and was very impressed by the conversion. No bells and whistles, it's practically identical save for resolution and a steadier framerate, but I'm glad it's available to play on a current system.

It is going to be awkward if/when they have to re-re-release these games on the next consoles, though. "Now Even HD-er!!"

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If they are released at a reduced price I have no problem with them to be honest, as long as they've put some effort in as Silent Hill HD was godawful.

Asking for £40 for Wind Waker, is taking the piss. Yeah it's lovely to look at, but there is nothing extra and it's not the most inspiring Zelda outside of the art style. A shit load better than Skyward Sword mind.

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I've been playing through the HD remakes of Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 over the past week. MGS3 in particular stands up incredibly well (I forgot just how brilliant The End boss battle was!) and with a new lick of HD paint it did make me think how great these remakes can be if done correctly. They allow you to play older classics as you remember them, not as the blurry chugfest that many of them actually were.

I'm not too fussed about added content really. If the original game is remembered fondly enough for it to be a candidate for a HD polish-up then that's enough for me. Release it at a reasonable price and allow me to save the game for posterity and you have a welcome addition to my game library.

I do have to say though that if ever a game didn't require an HD remake it's Wind Waker. The game itself was a big let-down to me but it has perhaps the most timeless graphical style of any game I can think of. Charging full-price for it is a bit of a piss-take too, I think.

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(the Bluepoint ones are very good, the Konami ones are bad).

ZOE HD collection (post patch) and MGS HD collection say hi

Well MGS was done by Bluepoint, who also did Ico/SOTC and God of War I/II. ZOE was handled by a different developer and then patched by another developer who did Rez HD and Okami HD. Konami don't do this work themselves but Bluepoint do have a deserved reputation that Konami's random developers do not necessarily have. Or in other words, Konami are too cheap to pay for a proper job to be done the first time round on "smaller" franchises.

ZOE 1 supposedly wasn't patched but I'm playing it now and haven't experienced any obvious problems. Granted I'm playing it after a 10+ year gap but they did a decent job on it. The problems with the second game make it sound like it was a much more demanding game than the first which ultimately caused the problem.

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As long as the effort is put in to clean up the graphics & framerate I think a lot of PS2 era games can actually stand alongside or sometimes even surpass their current-gen sequels.

I would much rather play MGS2/3 HD than MGS4, for instance.

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Surely the purpose of a HD release is to reach new people? This is what bugs me when games are re-released - if a game has been out for 10 years and it gets a remake (or in this case a HD upgrade) then it will be available for a new generation.

Currently, the games market does not have this backwards compatability thing that dvds/blu rays can do..

If you don't want to buy it then don't.

Also, the Resi 4 HD "update" whilst adding nothing new, was well worth replaying.

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The problem with new content in remakes is the old farts will all inevitably agree that it adds nothing or is nothing of comparable quality to the original game. Ducktales being the latest example I know of.

But it still makes the Wind Waker remake lazy.

The industry needs to sort backcompat out, someday.

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