Jump to content
IGNORED

Better Call Saul!


Captain Kelsten
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm loving this show as always, but I'm in too minds about why Kim and Saul have gone after Howard in the way they have.  Howard always liked Jimmy, and it was very clear in the early seasons that Chuck was holding Jimmy back.  Saul initially blamed Howard for offering him a finder's fee for Sandpiper, instead of allowing him to join HHM.  But we learn later that Howard would have hired Jimmy and it was all Chucks fault. There's even an apology scene where Howard says he always liked Jimmy, to his face. 

 

What changed to make Kim and Saul hate Howard? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dumpster said:

I'm loving this show as always, but I'm in too minds about why Kim and Saul have gone after Howard in the way they have.  Howard always liked Jimmy, and it was very clear in the early seasons that Chuck was holding Jimmy back.  Saul initially blamed Howard for offering him a finder's fee for Sandpiper, instead of allowing him to join HHM.  But we learn later that Howard would have hired Jimmy and it was all Chucks fault. There's even an apology scene where Howard says he always liked Jimmy, to his face. 

 

What changed to make Kim and Saul hate Howard? 

 

Spoiler

Jimmy has always hated Howard, ever since he dropped a bombshell on him about not being able to work for HHM when he was celebrating passing the bar exam in the mail room. Even if it was ultimately Chuck's decision, Howard went along with it and was always a suck up to Chuck in Jimmy's eyes.

 

Remember also later, when Howard offered Jimmy a job - instead of just turning it down Jimmy resented Howard enough to string him along and do a series of pranks as a way not just to say no, but to show that he resented Howard for even thinking he could get Jimmy on side.

 

As for right now: Kim resents Howard, because the way she sees it, when Jimmy was grieving for Chuck, Howard busted in and selfishly laid out his own problems on Jimmy and potential guilt about having caused Chuck's death from forcing him to retire. Later on, because of that, Kim completely dresses down Howard, and presumably has lost all respect for him. We know from flashbacks that Kim really liked and respected Chuck and practically hero worshipped him at one point, so this is partly also in response to her own grief.

 

Of course Jimmy could actually have felt guilty about indirectly causing Chuck's deterioration, as he had told the insurance company about Chuck's mental health issues, which was brought into sharp relief when Howard said it had all started since the insurance company had had issues with Chuck. Neither Kim nor Howard were aware Jimmy had done any of that, and Jimmy, most likely feeling resentful at Howard reminding him of something that could place some of the blame of Chuck's death on him, turned all that around and told Howard he should definitely be feeling guilty for what he's done.

 

So for Kim, it's because she thinks Howard was being a selfish prick to a grieving Jimmy and was maybe partly responsible for what happened to Chuck.

For Jimmy, it's because deep down he knows he shares some of the blame, but rather than admit any of that to himself or others, he can now use Howard to bare the brunt of his guilt.

 

I have a horrible feeling this might lead to them ultimately breaking Howard. He's already seeing a therapist and his life seems to be falling apart. He's been an asshole a lot of the time, but not to the extent where this crusade against him is justified. But as for both Jimmy and Kim's motivations that could be leading up to that, they are completely consistent and in keeping with events that have happened so far.

 

I've watched the entire show recently so all this comes from a place of analysis of the whole at least :lol:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a really brilliant answer and I wonder if the show is trying to do the same thing they did in breaking bad,  where you learn a lot about your own ethics based on what points in the series you don't like Walter anymore. 

 

 In breaking bad the first time I remember disliking Walter's actions was when he watched Jane die. Some people stayed on Walter side all the way to the end of the show but he did some pretty unforgivable things  with each getting worse than the last until the end of the series where he tells Skyler that he didn't do it for his family but did it for himself. 

 

As Better Call Saul continues perhaps we're supposed to dislike the Saul character.  Howard may have made mistakes but he's always tried to account for them and was never really the bad guy. What they are doing to him seems very unfair. Huell has already called him out on this ,  asking why the pair of them with a successful legal practices are doing what they're doing. Perhaps he is representing the voice of the audience at this stage .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I was actually a little surprised initially at Huel's little speech. It felt almost fourth wall breaking in a way that I wondered if the writers were worried that it might not be obvious to some viewers what is going on already in the writing. But at the same time, it makes sense that someone like Huel at one point, especially someone like Huel, might well ask them something like that, as there is not really any other character in Jimmy's life at this point that can see it all for what it is and ask the innocent question.

 

The fact it's brushed off is the indication to the audience that this ride ain't stopping:

 

Spoiler

And probably the most clear indication yet that no remaining non Breaking Bad character is safe going forward. I think in a way this was actually a kindness from the writers to prepare you emotionally for Nacho and whatever else later, as they are bringing you in and saying: we've asked our own characters why they are doing this, to see if they want to stop at this point, and the answer for us and you as the viewer is: "buckle up"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, englishbob said:

After today's episode I'm completely lost by Lalo's quest. What part am I misremembering that leads him here?

 

Spoiler

It's to prove, I think, that Gus is trying to manufacture his own drugs. I think. I can't remember him having any connection or knowledge of the German engineer though.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 07/05/2022 at 11:19, dumpster said:

That's a really brilliant answer and I wonder if the show is trying to do the same thing they did in breaking bad,  where you learn a lot about your own ethics based on what points in the series you don't like Walter anymore. 

Episode 1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@englishbob kind of spoilers for the above eh? (Not that anyone should be in the thread until they've watched it tonight)

 

Spoiler

The fact that he's in this episode I mean. It would spoil his reveal. He's deliberately introduced as a surprise with the reveal shot.

 

Anyway, I think the writer's room is clearly mostly people saying "whenever Lalo isn't on screen character's should be asking, where's Lalo?" :lol:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This week's is also just a feast for the eyes. Shot after shot of genuinely beautiful photography. The

 

Spoiler

Cafe shot with the view split by the mirrored counter surface was a particular favourite.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also

 

Spoiler

The final scene was just unbearably tense. The way they set up such a genuinely nice and lovely person and effectively let a tiger loose in her house. Fucking terrifying.

 

Earlier with the boxing match I was just grinning ear to ear throughout, it was great.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Benny said:

This week's is also just a feast for the eyes. Shot after shot of genuinely beautiful photography. The

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Cafe shot with the view split by the mirrored counter surface was a particular favourite.

 

 

My favourite shot was 'random toilet'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, this show needs to come with a more thorough recap before each episode. They're trying to make me remember stuff I haven't watched in years at this point.

 

Spoiler

At the end there, I got that the attractive older frau was the widow of the nice-guy engineer who Mike killed, but what was the ruler thing set in plastic about? And why is it significant for Lalo to have discovered it? Was that given to the guy's wife by his former comrades as one of the funeral gifts she mentioned?

 

Still, another great episode. It just makes me smile constantly.

 

Spoiler

Tony Dalton absolutely owns every scene he's in.

 

Also, are we supposed to know who the 

Spoiler

P.I. (I'm guessing) is who Howard talks to after the boxing match?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up a translation of something (and other thoughts):

 

Spoiler

‘In Liebe Deine Jungs’ translates to ‘With Love, Your Boys.’

 

Lalo had a good look at the sticker of who made it. Special commission - some record of who ordered it....getting closer to 'the boys', and Gus.

 

Gus planting a gun in his construction site. What showdown is he expecting to happen here? How does he know Lalo may be onto this lead (if he does).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spoiler

Because Gus respects exactly how clever and dangerous Lalo is. He doesn't have to know if Lalo is onto him or not. He just has to expect he will be sooner or later because of the man he's dealing with.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked how 

Spoiler

unsure Gus felt about having a pistol on his ankle, like he knows it’s not really going to be effective against Lalo. Planting it at the factory site shows that even when the viewer doesn’t fully understand Lalo’s plan, Gus appears to be one step ahead of him. They’re both playing chess while Saul and Howard on the surface are playing checkers. Although Howard is up to something with that P.I and slipping Kimmy suggests that bigger things are still to come for Howard. Howard finding out was part of the plan. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, neoELITE said:

 

  Hide contents

It's to prove, I think, that Gus is trying to manufacture his own drugs. I think. I can't remember him having any connection or knowledge of the German engineer though.

 


 

Spoiler

isn’t it the whole reason Mike was tasked to kill Werner? Lalo found out about him via that travel agent that he murdered. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Benny said:

Also

 

  Hide contents

The final scene was just unbearably tense. The way they set up such a genuinely nice and lovely person and effectively let a tiger loose in her house. Fucking terrifying.

 

Earlier with the boxing match I was just grinning ear to ear throughout, it was great.

 

 

 

I don't want to bad mouth the new Startrek too much, because comparing any trek to what might genuinely be the GOAT is unfair, but...

 

Spoiler

The fact that within the first two minutes of screen time, they've manage to introduce a character tangentially related to a character from the past, and made them 
a) a really interesting character

b) someone you care about

c) matter for their own sake

d) deepen the world

 

Show's Picard and the like for the amateur hour that they are. 

 

Spoilers for Picard Season 2 E10

Spoiler

Imagine this level of craft for the introduction of Picard's parents? What could have been done with that. 

 

I mean this is just a masterclass 

 

BCS's strength is that it is so willing to be slow - but it's also so dense. So much was done in that scene. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SpagMasterSwift said:

I liked how 

  Hide contents

unsure Gus felt about having a pistol on his ankle, like he knows it’s not really going to be effective against Lalo. Planting it at the factory site shows that even when the viewer doesn’t fully understand Lalo’s plan, Gus appears to be one step ahead of him. They’re both playing chess while Saul and Howard on the surface are playing checkers. Although Howard is up to something with that P.I and slipping Kimmy suggests that bigger things are still to come for Howard. Howard finding out was part of the plan. 

 

 

Spoiler

One step ahead, calm, collected, but still falling apart at the seams. Phenomenal acting.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, christaylor said:

Slightly worryingly I think after that latest episode I'm now on #teamhoward

 

😐


This is what I used to say in support of Chuck when people were slating his behaviour towards Jimmy. We might be rooting for Jimmy, but it’s important to remember he’s a crook, and Chuck wasn’t. Neither is Howard. Both are doing what’s right according to the law, which they are sworn to protect. Jimmy is motivated by self interest first, and screw the law. Which he is also sworn to protect. Obviously his transition to Cartel lawyer underscores this.

 

That’s what the Sandpiper scene was about. Howard may be motivated entirely by the benefit to HHM, so the ‘bad guy’ compared with Jimmy’s more emotional connection, but he is doing so through the mechanism that is legal and to the benefit of his clients. Which Jimmy would / could never have achieved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Down by Law said:

You could tell earlier in the season that Saul wanted out of the whole Howard situation but it was Kim that dragged him back in. Naughty Kimmo

 

Prediction-o-spoiler

Spoiler

It's not Saul who corrupts Kim, it's the other way round. She goes to far, thats why she isn't in BB.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been reading Bob Odenkirks memoir, and just got up to the Better Call Saul section.

 

Some good stuff in there if anyone's interested in picking it up, including the fact that Michael Mando's first language is French and he doesn't speak a bit of Spanish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.