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Silly question time but one thing I don’t think was explained:

 

Spoiler

What’s the cover story for Fring having captured Nacho? It can’t involve Nacho’s Dad can it? He’d be getting shot by Hector next no doubt. 


Great episode though. Loved every second of that.

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Yeah that was great telly, but I have a question about something

 

Spoiler

What was Mike's "do it" comment about, did he want Nacho to shiv the mini boss with the glass?

 

Then Mike was gonna do what exactly? Kill Nacho? Kill Hector? Kill Gustav? Or just try and kill 'em all? 

I'd have liked him to have killed the twins tbh, those boots they wear, ffs. Suits aren't much better either.

 

Edit, just watched the end again. Did Mike just mean, run, like they'd discussed, just run, they'll be ready, you'll be cable tied, he said. So that Mike could take the shot, make sure he didn't suffer.

 

Quite liked Nacho, he was a good guy stuck in bad situation. 

 

 

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Holy fucking shit.

 

Spoiler

I was so earnestly hoping that wasn't going to happen, but nothing good ever happens to anyone in "the game" in Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul eventually. It's so incredible how the tone of the show has gradually, subtly shifted through all six seasons to go from comedy to tragedy to deeper darkness the further the point of view characters have been sucked into the underworld.

 

Today's episode feels like the realty check gut punch, and Kim and Jimmy's conversation and the chat with Huel is like a massive comet of causality about to come crashing down into their lives, probably in the form of Lalo, as it's telling the audience: there are consequences for everything, and not every situation is escapable. And Nacho's struggle is the embodiment of that.

 

Fucking hell I'm terrified for Kim. But I think it's very simple: I think what will happen to her will come down to if she finally becomes part of the "game" or rejects it. As everyone who goes in across both shows has their fates sealed.

 

Riveting stuff.

 

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Also, I just want to add

 

Spoiler

Nacho is the biggest fucking badass on the planet. No way out, but despite all that still gave himself a moment of pure, unadulterated defiance, and in his last act took his fate into his own hands in the only way left to him.

 

I'm sure I saw Mike smile grimly actually as he packed up his gear. In a show of absolute respect.

 

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 @Benny that's a really interesting  take but with regards to Kim 

 

Spoiler

I think she may be playing Jimmy. When she said (paraphrasing) "do you want to be with the cartel, or a rat" I think she's showing her true colours. Don't be a rat, play the game.

 

Jimmy is doubtful about her plans for revenge on Howard but goes along because he trusts her. I think that might be a mistake, we did not see Kim in BB because she's rinsed Jimmy, dropped him right in the shit and then fucked off. Kim lives, I hope. But I think she may also be a Very Bad Person. She doesn't become part of the game, she's in the game.

Or is she the moral heart of the story? She hasn't been so far, she's pushed Jimmy at so many opportunities where he could have pulled back, but he trusts her.

 

Not sure I trust Kim right now. But I do hope I'm wrong

 

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17 minutes ago, multi said:

 @Benny that's a really interesting  take but with regards to Kim 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I think she may be playing Jimmy. When she said (paraphrasing) "do you want to be with the cartel, or a rat" I think she's showing her true colours. Don't be a rat, play the game.

 

Jimmy is doubtful about her plans for revenge on Howard but goes along because he trusts her. I think that might be a mistake, we did not see Kim in BB because she's rinsed Jimmy, dropped him right in the shit and then fucked off. Kim lives, I hope. But I think she may also be a Very Bad Person. She doesn't become part of the game, she's in the game.

Or is she the moral heart of the story? She hasn't been so far, she's pushed Jimmy at so many opportunities where he could have pulled back, but he trusts her.

 

Not sure I trust Kim right now. But I do hope I'm wrong

 

 

Spoiler

I do quite like this take as well, but for me I don't think it would ring entirely true just based on how we've seen her act when Jimmy's not around.

 

Having watched all five previous seasons recently, it's obvious Kim goes through a lot of changes as the story goes on, and at one point wholesale shifts her priorities to doing "good" over helping a big bank. And when Jimmy is lost in the desert she's completely distraught. That's a lot of emotional investment in someone she's "playing".

 

So the only sense I think that works is if after she found the bullet holes in the cup she feels so betrayed by him lying to her at that point, or from associating with such unsavoury characters, that she then makes it her mission to destroy him or something. But I think the reality is a lot more complex than that, and Kim and Jimmy's love story is complex and nuanced, more than just them "playing" either of each other would suggest.

 

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Interesting, you're obviously right about the complexity of things between Kim and Jimmy, it's been twisting between them for 5 seasons so far. It's probably a knot we won't be able to unravel (or see unravel) until the very end of the last episode. 

 

You're in a better position than me on the 'big picture' of BCS though if you've watched them all recently, as I haven't seen Seasons 1 -5 since the days they appeared on Netflix so no doubt I've forgotten a heck of a lot of facts and nuance. But I really wish I had the time to rewatch them all again before S6. 

 

It's just the best thing. Up there and probably above all the usual suspects of HBO etc

 

edit @Benny

 

 

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What I do think is suspicious is

 

Spoiler

Just how much of Jimmy's shit Kim is willing to take in her stride. She's definitely developed a "taste" for the danger, and regarding staying in the relationship she even literally refers to it already being a "sunk cost" in reference to Jimmy mentioning the concept at one point... So she's going forward with both eyes open.

 

Also I was watching a nice video Maggie May Fish did recently on Twin Peaks: the Return, and it talks a lot about how the big prestige shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad are very male centric and deconstruct but also revel in their toxic masculinity. I always found it surprising in those shows when the leading women in them are often pulled along by the male protagonists and effectively forced into their world, as the video pointed out - Twin Peaks the Return is full of commentary on those exact tropes in those shows.

 

So what I find interesting about Kim, is she's both fully in control of her own destiny, and is creating her future alongside, rather than because of Jimmy's actions, BUT, there are also times when Jimmy does something awful and she just goes "okay". Which I can't decide if it's some deeper commentary on characters that literally go along for the ride like that, and somehow it's going to all blow up when she lays out just how many chances she's been giving him, or if it's just because she sees it as a way of keeping her and Jimmy's agency separate.

 

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Oh man, I'll need to read that again tomorrow, @Benny

 

Then probably read it again the day after.

 

Your obviously better up on this shit than I am. So much better up. But you have made me want to start again from S1E1 this weekend.

😃

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, multi said:

Yeah that was great telly, but I have a question about something

 

  Hide contents

What was Mike's "do it" comment about, did he want Nacho to shiv the mini boss with the glass?

 

Then Mike was gonna do what exactly? Kill Nacho? Kill Hector? Kill Gustav? Or just try and kill 'em all? 

I'd have liked him to have killed the twins tbh, those boots they wear, ffs. Suits aren't much better either.

 

Edit, just watched the end again. Did Mike just mean, run, like they'd discussed, just run, they'll be ready, you'll be cable tied, he said. So that Mike could take the shot, make sure he didn't suffer.

 

Quite liked Nacho, he was a good guy stuck in bad situation. 

 

 

Spoiler

Nacho was holding the gun to his head at that point so I assume Mike wanted Nacho to shoot the guy, he wouldn’t have needed to use the glass. There was no way out for Nacho either way so Mike probably wanted him to go out in a blaze of glory? As far as I can tell Mike was only watching through the scope, he couldn’t really get involved (except as a last resort) as that would cast suspicion over the whole thing - as Gus had said they knew who Mike was and he was not supposed to be there. I don’t think he would have done anything unless it looked like Nacho was going to get tortured after all.

 

I don’t know why Nacho didn’t kill the guy tbh, best I can come up with is that by shooting himself he denied Hector the satisfaction (which as demonstrated by Hector’s frustration afterwards was a great twist of the knife) but surely he had more than one shot?

 

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You also have to bear in mind that:

 

Spoiler

Anything Nacho did had to be in service to Fring, as Fring had only given his word that Nacho's dad would be protected if he went along with Fring's wishes. It means Nacho would absolutely not have been able to kill Bolsa, or anyone else for some revenge.

 

That's why his final fuck you was so powerful. He did exactly as much as he could do to rub Hector's nose in it while still making sure Fring kept his word. You could see he was almost about to betray Fring as well though, through his sheer rage at all of them.

 

As for Mike, "do it", was just Mike wanting him to go through with the plan and run so he'd shoot him, ensuring his dad's protection.

 

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Spoiler

Surely if that was the case Mike would not have been wishing him to do it? One thing that was definitely true is that Mike was looking out for Nacho’s dad. He would have been saying ‘don’t do anything stupid’ if there was any risk. Why would Bolsa dying be so bad for Gus?

 

I guess Nacho had to make the call though, and so given what his character knew, then yeah that was probably it.

 

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8 hours ago, multi said:

Yeah that was great telly, but I have a question about something

 

  Hide contents

What was Mike's "do it" comment about, did he want Nacho to shiv the mini boss with the glass?

 

Then Mike was gonna do what exactly? Kill Nacho? Kill Hector? Kill Gustav? Or just try and kill 'em all? 

I'd have liked him to have killed the twins tbh, those boots they wear, ffs. Suits aren't much better either.

 

Edit, just watched the end again. Did Mike just mean, run, like they'd discussed, just run, they'll be ready, you'll be cable tied, he said. So that Mike could take the shot, make sure he didn't suffer.

 

Quite liked Nacho, he was a good guy stuck in bad situation. 

 

 

Spoiler

Mike and Jimmy’s stories have reflected back at each other as the story has progressed, with each of them getting progressively deeper and having to do things they don’t want to. In mikes case, it all came to a head when he was forced to kill the German contractor. He resents Gus for it, and he’s in too deep - Fring’s other goon even pulled a gun on him in the last episode, when Mike wouldn’t back down on the safety of Nacho’s dad. 
 

I think Mike wants out, and secretly hoped Nacho would shoot Don Juan so that it all kicked off. The chance of Nacho living would be slim, but the chances of Gus, Hector and the rest of them kicking off and it all going down was enough that, for a moment, Mike saw his chance to put an end to them all, consequences be damned. 
 

That look in his face as he packed up was his soul leaving his body, as he resigned himself to his fate. 

 

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My Mrs hasn't watched Breaking Bad so explaining how Hector dies was met with a "that's ridiculous". 

 

Nacho

Spoiler

What a way to go. I didn't expect that at all. But the cousins lifting Hector's wheelchair was a bit LOL given the gravitas of what preceded it.

 

It was still not as tense as Hank's demise in BB.

 

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1 hour ago, neoELITE said:

My Mrs hasn't watched Breaking Bad so explaining how Hector dies was met with a "that's ridiculous". 

 

Nacho

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What a way to go. I didn't expect that at all. But the cousins lifting Hector's wheelchair was a bit LOL given the gravitas of what preceded it.

 

It was still not as tense as Hank's demise in BB.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Benny said:
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I think that was very intentionally darkly comical. It showed just how sad and pathetic and, as Nacho put it, what a miserable evil fuck he is.

 

 

Spoiler

Agree with Benny here. They've always done this with Hector. It's all about his pride and how much he hates the situation he's in.

 

On this note, I hate my brain and how forgetful I am. Nacho said he put Hector in that chair, was that true or did he just say it to piss him off? I can't remember but I think he did do it, yes?

 

Also, why you're telling your wife things about BB instead of "making" her watch BB once BCS is over, is beyond me!

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2 minutes ago, Illyria said:

 

 

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Agree with Benny here. They've always done this with Hector. It's all about his pride and how much he hates the situation he's in.

 

On this note, I hate my brain and how forgetful I am. Nacho said he put Hector in that chair, was that true or did he just say it to piss him off? I can't remember but I think he did do it, yes?

 

Spoiler

He did something with Hector's drugs, didn't he? I can't recall exactly what was involved. Replaced his drugs with fakes or something.

 

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There are a few behind the scenes pics from the writer/director of the latest episode on his Twitter account. You'll need to have a look through his other posts (easiest just to go to the media section on his account) as he didn't contain them in one thread. 

 

 

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