Liverpool Football Club Thread

[glb]

10 hours ago, Gabe said:

I agree, I've been saying since football restarted in the Summer that Van Dijk looked off the pace and had more mistakes leading to goals in the remaining games of last season than the rest of his time with us put together. Losing Jota when he was on such a rich vein of form was a big blow and his creativity and spark could well have made a difference in these games.

 

Roll on the FA Cup!

Hopefully Jota’s return will be end of January, especially with the Man City game, then Champions League starting up again in February. Sure he’ll play from the bench for a few weeks, but even that could be huge.

 

Don’t know what team will get picked on Friday against Villa. Hopefully as many first team players as possible rested. Not arsed about the FA Cup most seasons but especially not this one. Only real benefit is it can give some fringe/returning players some match fitness.

 

Anyone think a new CB will arrive? We’re hardly rolling in cash so doubt anyone major will sign. Could take a few months to settle in anyway, which makes me think Klopp will just persist with rotating Williams, Phillips and Henderson in a back four until Matip returns, hopefully at the end of the month. Albeit for the two games before he’s injured again.

[Chewylegs]

To me, Henderson shouldn't be in the mix when it comes to the defence.  Only if we didn't have Fabinho would I think he should possibly be there. Phillips and Williams have done nothing wrong.

[Gabe]

@glb We clearly need a CB if the two youngsters we have are overlooked in favour of Henderson, but I'm not sure it'll happen. Who is there that is a) available, b) cheap & c) good enough to be more than a bit-part player?

 

@Chewylegs It's odd, isn't it? Regardless of the reason, it's not good to keep rotating the CBs, that's the one area of the pitch you really need that stability and understanding to develop and the team aren't getting that. Either give Phillips or Williams a run and take whatever happens, or buy somebody who will be a certain starter.

 

Hopefully Thiago can stay fit and provide a creative spark in the middle, because currently the front-3 just aren't firing and there's nobody to replace them with, as Shaqiri and Origi aren't the answer to any particular question (other than "Who is hoovering up wages far beyond their contribution to the team?") Form is temporary and class is permanent and all that, sadly I don't think a tough away game at Villa is going to help in that regard, and another defeat will be bad for morale and prep for the Man U game. Perhaps we just need a flukey win to get going again?

[Chewylegs]

Very odd Gabe.  I'd go with what you said, pick Phillips or Williams.  I understand Klopp said that if he did that then one or the other wouldn't play for weeks on end, which I can sort of understand from a development point of view, but putting Henderson in there was one of the oddest decisions I've seen him make.

 

Sadly Origi and Shaq aren't good enough anymore for this side.

[glb]

I think Shaq is good enough technique-wise but he is either injured or out too long to get any rhythm in the side. Why Minamino hasn’t featured since the Palace game is anyone’s guess. He was bright in that game and surely deserving of more minutes than he’s played.

 

Agree on the CB. Henderson shouldn’t be there, yet has played a game and a half in defence. Signing someone looks like the obvious solution but unless they’ve played in the Premier League before not sure they’d even figure against Man United anyway, so that game will be another makeshift backline.

[Gabe]

26 minutes ago, Chewylegs said:

I understand Klopp said that if he did that then one or the other wouldn't play for weeks on end, which I can sort of understand from a development point of view

Which would be fine, if either of them were playing - but they aren't! I mean as much as you could say TAA was at fault for the goal, wasn't Henderson playing everyone onside at the free-kick? Had he been in line it would've been chalked-off I think.

 

As for Shaqiri, I was really excited when he came to the Premier League all those years ago with Stoke because he was a fantastic talent. Lack of games since those heady days and probably being played in a more conservative fashion than he would like has meant it's never really happened for him, which is a real shame as he is technically excellent. Other than those couple of goals against Man Utd I can't think of any impact he's had - though I seem to have a very hazy memory of him making a costly mistake leading to a goal in a match? Am I imagining that?

 

@glb Agree on Minamino too and he's of an age where he needs to be playing regularly, but I can't see Firmino being given a break even though he could probably use one. I wonder if the Ox will ever get a run of games to find some form again, too? (I know he didn't play well yesterday).

 

It was unrealistic to expect this side to continue to perform like they have for the past two and a half years (hence why I bored everybody by saying every transfer window since the Summer of 2019 that we needed to build some depth) so this isn't totally unexpected and we are still (temporarily) top, after all - but I think there's a danger the wheels could come off by the end of the month if Klopp isn't careful and nothing in the past 3 games has shown an improvement is coming.

[Chewylegs]

https://twitter.com/mceachern_ty/status/1346218735804305408?s=08

 

Why is this not a foul, red, Yellow, fucking something. VAR?

[Chewylegs]

13 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Which would be fine, if either of them were playing - but they aren't! I mean as much as you could say TAA was at fault for the goal, wasn't Henderson playing everyone onside at the free-kick? Had he been in line it would've been chalked-off I think.

Which is why I said .....but putting Henderson in there was one of the oddest decisions I've seen him make.

13 minutes ago, Gabe said:

 

@glb

 

[Gabe]

Yeah, I was agreeing with you @Chewylegs and just thinking out loud 

[DukeOfEarlsfield]

10 minutes ago, Chewylegs said:

Which is why I said .....but putting Henderson in there was one of the oddest decisions I've seen him make.

I don’t see it as being that odd, really. The rationale is obvious, Southampton’s pressing last night was excellent. They hounded our back line for the whole ninety minutes and made it really difficult to play out from the back. Even Thiago looked harassed at times.

 

And whilst neither Phillips or Williams have done anything wrong, neither of them have looked as comfortable as our regular centre backs at taking the ball forward, quickly into midfield. It’s something that Gomez doesn’t get enough credit for, because both him and Van Dijk are superb at it.

 

If of the new guys had played last night, the risk is that Southampton would have targeted them relentlessly, resulting in a potentially awful, confidence shattering game for the youngsters.

[Chewylegs]

That could be the same for a lot of games in the premier league though. It's not just Southampton that press. Also, with a stronger midfield with our captain in it, that could have helped.  Quite a lot of the time Hendo drops back to pick the ball up.  Fabinho is also excellent at distribution.  

 

Stating that he doesn't want to play only one of the new kids over the other then playing a midfielder instead, is odd. 

 

We lost as well, had most of the possession, so it didn't work.

[Gabe]

14 minutes ago, DukeOfEarlsfield said:

I don’t see it as being that odd, really. The rationale is obvious, Southampton’s pressing last night was excellent. They hounded our back line for the whole ninety minutes and made it really difficult to play out from the back. Even Thiago looked harassed at times.

 

And whilst neither Phillips or Williams have done anything wrong, neither of them have looked as comfortable as our regular centre backs at taking the ball forward, quickly into midfield. It’s something that Gomez doesn’t get enough credit for, because both him and Van Dijk are superb at it.

 

If of the new guys had played last night, the risk is that Southampton would have targeted them relentlessly, resulting in a potentially awful, confidence shattering game for the youngsters.

That doesn't really make a great deal of sense, because when Henderson is in midfield he drops back not only to pick up the ball, but also to fill-in for whichever full-back is pushing forward. That also makes him available for a short-ball for whichever CBs are playing, allowing him to play out from there. Having him as a CB not only compromised the defence versus a dedicated player in that position, it also neutered the midfield because it left us weaker there and increased the press on Thiago.

 

And, as the goal showed, not being a defender, he played everybody onside. TAA should've done better, obviously, but a proper line there means Ings doesn't even get the chance. You could argue that we only conceded one goal so perhaps it wasn't too bad a decision, but that ignores the fact that we then had to chase the game against a team very comfortable defending plus without one of our main midfielders to build up play. It was just a poor decision and it did directly cost us.

[DukeOfEarlsfield]

15 minutes ago, Gabe said:

That doesn't really make a great deal of sense, because when Henderson is in midfield he drops back not only to pick up the ball, but also to fill-in for whichever full-back is pushing forward. That also makes him available for a short-ball for whichever CBs are playing, allowing him to play out from there. Having him as a CB not only compromised the defence versus a dedicated player in that position, it also neutered the midfield because it left us weaker there and increased the press on Thiago.

I’m not saying that it didn’t have knock on effects, just that the argument against playing the new guys in that game is an obvious one. Philips, in particular, would have been hopelessly out of his depth.

 

And playing Thiago, the guy we’ve all been drooling over for the last few months, in Henderson’s role is hardly some massive risk. He’s one of the best midfielders in the world. He should be equal to the task.

 

I’m not saying the gamble worked, it clearly didn’t, but taking the decision the other way could easily have resulted in us having a conversation that Williams is too young and inexperienced after making several costly mistakes.

[Gabe]

18 minutes ago, DukeOfEarlsfield said:

I’m not saying that it didn’t have knock on effects, just that the argument against playing the new guys in that game is an obvious one. Philips, in particular, would have been hopelessly out of his depth.

 

And playing Thiago, the guy we’ve all been drooling over for the last few months, in Henderson’s role is hardly some massive risk. He’s one of the best midfielders in the world. He should be equal to the task.

 

I’m not saying the gamble worked, it clearly didn’t, but taking the decision the other way could easily have resulted in us having a conversation that Williams is too young and inexperienced after making several costly mistakes.

I'm not suggesting playing Thiago was a risk - far from it - I'm saying he should've had Henderson alongside him.

 

And sure, playing Williams might've led to mistakes (like Jones being at fault for the Newcastle goal the other day) - but you take that a bit more on the chin when you have youngsters developing. Instead we had a vastly experienced player being played out of position and being at fault for the goal that cost us, whilst also robbing the team of his energy and drive in the middle of the park. Even before the game started, I know which I prefer seeing as a fan.

 

It's an even odder decision when you look at the bigger picture, because unless Klopp sees a future of Henderson as a CB, then what was the point? There are better teams out there than Southampton to worry about, so it doesn't even make sense from the point of view of protecting the likes of Williams. How are they going to improve if they aren't trusted to get the chance? Nobody thinks Henderson will be playing there when Man Utd come to visit, do they? So that's one less game for a proper CB to acquaint themselves in the role and develop that relationship with Fabinho (who we are fortunate to have turned into such a good makeshift CB).

 

If nothing else, this is a nice, friendly discussion to have when I should be working

[Stig]

16 hours ago, p b said:

 

Fernandes will do the shit little jump-and-spring before shooting, accidentally kick his own calf and tumble over the ball. Liverpool will score from the counter. 

And we will win!

 

Don't be silly....he'd be given another penalty for tripping himself up

[Stevie]

On 04/01/2021 at 23:05, ryodi said:

United are going to get at least two penalties at Anfield is my prediction.

 

Penalties are so 2020. Ed Woodward is going to use the money normally spent on bribing referees on the FA so Man United can have 14 players on the pitch. The formation will be 5-5-4. 

 

 

 

 

[gospvg]

Does not look like we are signing a defender? Just stick with Rhys Williams and let the kid develop.

[glb]

The club is almost certainly briefing James Pearce and a few other journalists because all the noise is we won’t sign anyone. Unless that’s what they want us to think!

 

Realistically though, how can we? With Covid cases increasing, and tomorrow’s game with Villa looking likely to be off, might be reasonable to think things are going to get worse before they get better, so can’t see the fairly frugal FSG spending much now when the landscape for matchday revenues etc is so uncertain.

Rumours of Upamecano or Alaba being prime summer targets. Have to think at least one CB will come in then, with Matip being made of biscuits and Gomez suffering two major knee injuries.

[Adrock]

The club has demonstrated they are patient and will wait for the right personnel to become available rather than take a chance on whatever is offered in a transfer window. I wouldn't be surprised if a signing wasn't made.

 

[CheekyLee]

I'm a little calmer tonight, but still really angry at the refereeing. This is from another forum, but says everything that can possibly be said about it:

 

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115816280

 

Show that to the next person who says "They even themselves out" or some other such bullshit. Yes, we shouldn't be relying on referees, and should be doing more to win, but when we're up against this level of what is sheer incompetence at best then I don't know how much more we will be able to do.

[Chewylegs]

Wow! Seeing them all back to back is pretty damming.

[bradigor]

The Walcott one still blows my mind that it wasn't even a freekick, let alone a card of either colour. 

[Gabe]

I can understand why the Mane incidents weren't given (the first is more open to debate but I don't think the second one is at all), but the handball is blatant, their free kick is a joke and the Walcott and Salah neck grab are yellows (and I don't a red for Walcott would've been protested too strongly either).

 

With all that said, not having a shot on target until the 75th is still nothing to do with the ref and ultimately summed the general performance up.

[glb]

42 minutes ago, bradigor said:

The Walcott one still blows my mind that it wasn't even a freekick, let alone a card of either colour. 

Yeah, that’s the one that irks me the most. It’s a reckless challenge in close proximity to a linesman and not even a free-kick. WTAF? Having lost several players to similarly bad challenges already this season, just glad Milner is okay.

 

14 minutes ago, Gabe said:

With all that said, not having a shot on target until the 75th is still nothing to do with the ref and ultimately summed the general performance up.

 

All the same, do agree with this. The slow starts have mounted up, which is no surprise with the schedule and injuries/Covid absences. Defeat at Southampton isn’t really that big a deal given the season they’re having, but taking four points from West Brom, Fulham, Newcastle and Brighton is a really poor return. Those narrow one-goal wins from last season have become draws.

 

Think retaining the title will be largely achieved in the next six weeks* with games upcoming against both Manchester clubs, Spurs away, Leicester away and the return Merseyside derby. Come through that a point or two ahead, behind or even ‘joint-top’ and things will feel a lot rosier. I know there’s an altogether different scenario but don’t want to feel more doom and gloom!

 

*pending the league’s continuation.

[Gabe]

I don't even think we need to be top-3, just there or thereabouts come the end of February and then be in a position to push from there.

[bradigor]

So then tonight. 

 

Does Klopp put out a young team to make a game of it and rest the first team? Or does he stick out as many senior players as possible to try and remind then what it feels like to score and win!

Just a reminder... these were the line ups in the League Cup last season when we are forced to play 

 

[glb]

21 minutes ago, bradigor said:

So then tonight. 

 

Does Klopp put out a young team to make a game of it and rest the first team? Or does he stick out as many senior players as possible to try and remind then what it feels like to score and win!

Just a reminder... these were the line ups in the League Cup last season when we are forced to play 

 

 

Think include a few senior players that need match fitness but otherwise wrap everyone else in cotton wool and let as many of our U23s play as possible.

 

Sad to say it but really couldn’t care if we go out tonight. A few gaps for rest and recovery in the fixture list will be way more beneficial than a half-hearted cup run.

[Gabe]

I think it's really important the team actually win a game again - and I think it will be a bad look to lose to Villa's under-23 team - so I expect mainly youngsters but a few more experienced heads in there - Thiago and Milner to build some match fitness perhaps, Shaqiri, Neco Williams and Minamino to get some minutes under their belts. I would be surprised if any of the regular front three or midfield started though.

 

I actually think a good FA Cup run isn't a bad thing for the squad (give Rhys Williams and Phillips some game time at CB, for example), though I totally understand the additional fixture congestion is not idea.

[bradigor]

Fair play to Mane not celebrating at all 

 

[gospvg]

Men vs Boy’s this evening, feel sorry for the Villa Kids.