Liverpool Football Club Thread

[gospvg]

I was very disappointed at the result yesterday but also how some players played.

Trent has stopped going past the last defender to cross the ball.

Allison is making silly mistakes.

Midfield just seem to be focus on keeping the ball passing backwards or sidewards where is the forward drive.

When we get into the final third we just seem to carry on this passing phase instead of taking the chance when it comes.

 

Mane & Robertson were are best two players yesterday. Ox was decent in that he wanted to go forward but everyone else was poor.

 

I do hope we strengthen we need some creativity in midfield and options up front who can make a difference when they come on Minamino I think will come good but Origi/Shaqiri should not be are only options. We have some good young players in Jones, Elliot & Williams and I am all for bringing them in, we need to get Brewster, Ojo & Harry Wilson back into tthe squad but we do need to buy more quality in the summer.

 

Chelsea getting Werner ahead of us was disappointing he is a goal scorer & would have given us a great option up front. We are at the top and we should strengthen now to make sure we can continue to challenge City/United/Chelsea (These are the teams who I think will fight for the title next season).

[Gabe]

@gospvg Trent has looked off on holiday for the last few games, not only defensively but his crossing and set-pieces have been really poor for a man of his quality.

 

The midfield has never been all that creative though, that's nothing new. But it's probably no surprise the last couple of games have been off when Henderson's been injured - he's very vocal on the pitch and I think would've given players a kick up the arse last night (and vs Burnley). I thought Ox was playing alright last night, was surprised he came off, but up top both Firmino and Salah were anonymous (again) and we don't have anybody good enough to cover for them when that's the case - though Minamino did look bright and looked to run at people when he came on.

 

I don't think our youth players are the answer just yet - start to blood them, sure, but we need some established players to come in. The problem of course is that anybody coming in will know they are behind Bobby, Mo and Sadio in the pecking order and need to be okay with that (Werner wouldn't have been, even if the club wanted to pay the fee - which they didn't). As for midfield, it's a conundrum because the team has been built on a rather defensive midfield set-up and I don't see how that can be made much more expansive without losing the solidity that allows the full-backs and front 3 to flourish, although potentially being able to change the system during the game would be helpful at times.

 

In Klopp we trust, I guess.

[gospvg]

58 minutes ago, Gabe said:

In Klopp we trust, I guess.

 

True, that!

[glb]

In the past two years this club has won a near-unprecedented haul:

 

A European Cup

UEFA Super Cup

World Club Championship

A Premier League title

 

Is it any wonder the players at the core of those successes look a little unfocused after achieving so much? They're not robots, far from it thankfully. After next weekend they get over a month to reset. Pretty much every pundit asked about maliaise after winning a title is saying the same thing: focus goes, you just want a rest. Factor in the empty stadiums, which will almost certainly impact performances and it's no wonder the side looks a little wobbly.

 

Form has been a bit ropey, and players have made some uncharacteristic mistakes. But they've collectively achieved things together that have been uncharacteristic for a club that lumbered around trading on former glories for the best part of thirty years. There have been some magnificent highs like Istanbul or Houllier's treble but nothing as joyful, unified and constant as the past few years under Klopp, which since one sad night in Kiev has been a relentless march to one triumph after another.

 

As for 1990 and resting on laurels. That was an ageing squad at a club in urgent need of mass change to drag it into the modern era. That same club currently employs astrophysicists (!), elite nutritionists and throw-in coaches to benefit from fine margins; it is at the bleeding edge of football science with a manager known to demand every ounce of energy from his players, staff and supporters in the pursuit of more. Liverpool will keep ALL their key players, almost all of whom are in their prime or approaching their prime years. That squad will probably be bolstered by a few low-key signings, which might not make waves but then again whatever did happen to that unfancied lad from Hull that joined for £8m? Or the lad with the luminescent teeth that cost £10m less than Joelinton? With five subs continuing next season there will be more scope to give youngsters like Jones, Elliot and Williams game time and keep the first XI fresher.

 

Man City probably will spend a load of money, that's what they do. How did they get on this season? Man United challenge for the title? They're one bad run of form from being in crisis mode again with a gnome and former Liverpool fan club member for a manager. Chelsea? They've got an inexperienced manager marshalling a decent squad who, until now, had no pressure because he had to operate with hands tied. Let's see how patient Roman is after outlaying another big chunk of change. Arsenal are 9th with less of a transfer budget to come than Watford. Spurs are none more Spurs.

 

Enjoy the present, and presents, Klopp has brought us for a moment. It's far healthier than unfounded panicking about next season, upon which none of the recent performances will have any bearing. This side could still finish with 99 points, or maybe 'only' 93 or 94 or 95 or 96 or 97. Prior to last season they'd only ever got over 80 points in the Premier League era four times. The great side of the 87/88 only managed 90. Records are nice but unless a side wins 38 games out of 38, every record that currently exists can eventually be broken.

 

We have been given a wonderful thing to enjoy. A beautiful distraction. Drink it in. Watch some highlights of spanking the Bitters 5-2, 'we're gonna win the league' echoing around Anfield after Salah made it 2-0 against United, Fabinho absolutely lacing a thunderbolt past Ederson, shredding Arsenal, Leicester, Palace in wonderful team performances, Mane's late winner that Villa fans probably still have sleepless nights over... Look at all the rival fans falling over themselves to demean this title win, then look at the current league table, smile like a cat that got all the cream plus a night out with Robbo and Milly, and remind yourselves that more is to come, starting next week with the squad standing on the Kop getting #19.

[bradigor]

[Oh Danny Boy]

I definitely agree with all the above. However it will be negligent to rely heavily on the core 11 for another season. They’ve achieved so much over the last two seasons. Arguably everything there is to achieve in the club game, that’s how successful they’ve been. The question is that they are only human, is the motivation there to push on for another season or can we expect them to physically be able to achieve the high levels they’ve previously reached? I think a little shake up is needed even in the most successful teams, sometimes just to take the pressure off those who have been running solid for two seasons. 

[Gabe]

@glb I can't particularly disagree with much of what you've said there, other than City this season missed having a good central defender for half of it and are still the best attacking side in the league. I don't think this season - where they can still win the FA Cup and Champions League, lest we forget - is going to stop them being right up there next season, even if they don't buy anybody in the transfer window.

 

As for Man Utd, I do think they are beginning to fall into place (perhaps in spite of Ole rather than because of him). They are the form team at the moment, decent unbeaten run currently, still competing for trophies and their midfield is looking much better, plus their attacking talent is there for all to see. If they spend wisely in the window I think they could move to the top of the chasing pack, no question.

 

Just on the 1990 stuff though, I will just say I disagree (I've written out 2 lengthy responses but it isn't really worth getting into). All I'll say is that it is unrealistic - unprecedented, even - to expect the same players to perform at the same level for a third season in a row without having some established quality to come in when form dips.

[bradigor]

To keep comparing this to the 1990 team doesn't sit right with me, sorry. There was so much more happening around that team and the club as a whole that went beyond football. I don't think many at the club were over Hillsborough and were still shaken by it. The pressure of that drove Kenny out and even the higher ups were still in some kind of limbo of the back of it and failed to react to the changing tides of the game. 

Things are a lot different now. We cannot throw money around like Chelsea have been and seemingly will continue to do. We have some amazing people behind the scenes who make this club tick and will make the right decisions. If next season we finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th, then so be it. If that is because we were cautious financially then so be it. I'd rather we help off and remained in a good position financially so we can keep the club alive. Spend to keep up with City, Chelsea and United now during this uncertain period is a mistake. 

 

We may not even see the start of the next season, as we could end up in a situation where we hit a second lockdown and an even stricter one. There are way too many variable to consider outside of making sure we have the best squad. 

 

On the football side of things, we have invested in developing youth and we are seeing the fruition of that investment now too. We could see our own version of the 'Class of 1992' coming through about now. 

 

As said I think we'll pick a couple of low-risk transfers (such as Jamal Lewis) to bolster a couple of positions, but aside from that, there will be very little big moves, as they really aren't need. It is also not how the squad was built. Even when you look at Van Dijk and Alisson, they were funded by the sale of Coutinho, who himself only cost around £8m to bring in. Salah was a lowkey signing along with a few others. 

Gone are the days where we cannot trust the owners, FSG have proven time and time again that they are not H&G and do have the best interests of the club at heart. That may not sync with the Football Manager style of building teams, but it is proven to work. We as a club are in the healthiest position we have been in for well over 30 years, don't let a few bad games blind you to that. 

[glb]

Btw, I do agree about not adding to the squad would be negligent, just not expecting big outlays. Probably only City and Chelsea are immune to the current negative financials affecting football so we won’t be alone in only tweaking.
 

On the plus side Klopp has a knack of making good players better and has a history of unearthing gems, so we have that as a cushion.

 

The 1990 squad was really creaking, with far bigger cracks behind the scenes as Brad mentions. This squad is in its prime.

 

I’d be surprised if they surpass their current points total next season but I’d also be surprised if anyone else does too. Who knows, factors like Pep’s contract or new additions adjusting to the league might become bigger issues than we currently realise. 

[Gabe]

48 minutes ago, bradigor said:

To keep comparing this to the 1990 team doesn't sit right with me, sorry. There was so much more happening around that team and the club as a whole that went beyond football. I don't think many at the club were over Hillsborough and were still shaken by it. The pressure of that drove Kenny out and even the higher ups were still in some kind of limbo of the back of it and failed to react to the changing tides of the game. 

 

I feel there's a bit of revisionism going on here, because the game certainly didn't change in 1990 and it wasn't until Wenger and high-profile foreign imports arrived that things really started changing across the whole league. Prior to that it was only really Manchester United that took professionalism to a new level and started sorting diets and tackling drinking culture.

 

The tragedy of Hillsborough obviously would've had an impact though, yes. But in purely footballing terms - which in the context of Hillsborough I know is irrelevant - the club did not invest and so the decline began.

 

1 hour ago, bradigor said:

We as a club are in the healthiest position we have been in for well over 30 years, don't let a few bad games blind you to that. 

 

I'm not blind to anything - I cried real tears on that Thursday and I still have a glow when I think we are champions of England once more - we are still a very good team. But I'm not ignorant of how quickly things can change in football if you stand still. I've not called for big marquee signings at any point - I know the club don't operate like that (not without bringing money in first) - just some established experience to be brought in to help give options from the bench that can actually have an impact.

 

I felt at the end of last season that we just needed to add some depth to the squad because our bench wasn't very strong - and whilst we've won the league, might we also have seen better runs in the FA Cup and Champions League if we different options within the squad? We'll never know, but having a little bit more choice can only be a good thing, no?

 

I'll shut up now. 

[glb]

Football didn't radically change in 1990, but culturally Liverpool needed to. There are several accounts of a drinking culture at the club, and a reliance on the gradualism that was the cornerstone of the Boot Room's success. When Dalglish left, Souness did try more modern methods that had worked for him at Rangers but they were too radical and disruptive for a core squad used to success and seeing no reason to change.

 

There were actually a lot of acquisitions (and youth team promotions) between 1989 - 1991 season, albeit the list of names should point to the reason why Liverpool didn't just fall off their perch, but plummet:

 

Glynn Hysen

Steve Harkness

Ronny Rosenthal

Jimmy Carter

David Speedie

Jamie Redknapp

Don Hutchison

Tony Cousins

Alex Watson

Steve McManaman

Mike Hooper

Nick Tanner

Tony Warner

Nick Tanner

Dean Saunders (signed for a British transfer record)

Mark Wright

Mark Walters

István Kozma

Rob Jones

Lee Jones

Scott Paterson

Michael Thomas

Phil Charnock

 

With the exception of Rob Jones and Steve McManaman, none of those players should have been near a title-challenging team at that point in their careers. The problem wasn't that there was no investment, the problem was the investment was wayward and haphazard, not something that could be levelled at the club during the Klopp era.

[Gabe]

@glb I won't go through all of those name by name, but the discussion was framed around the start of the 1990/91 season - a fair number of those only came to the club post-Dalglish (and post that season) and so aren't really relevant to that point - which was to look to invest in the squad to try and defend the title.

 

Anyway, let's move the thread along and at least hope we can get a result against Chelsea so the title celebration after it is on a high.

[glb]

The point above was there wasn’t investment in the squad to capitalise on a successful period. My counter that there was plenty of investment during that period it just wasn’t done with much acumen. Again, not something that is relevant to the current set-up, so fears of a repeat are unfounded. If the squad needs additions, they will be very deliberate.

 

Minamino has been brought in, and some very talented youth players are going to get promoted from within. As Brad says, Lewis could arrive, possibly some other ‘bargains’ to be polished as Robertson and a few others have been.

[CheekyLee]

Can everyone just please stop thinking that Man U are going to do anything? They had an amazing run of wins by 3 goals, this is true. What nobody mentions is that it was against the bottom 4 teams. United are not top 4 opposition, and won't be for some time yet.

 

Tottenham are done, too. Mourinho is a busted flush, he'll never get back to the top of the mountain. Arsenal might do something, but they need a ton of work to be anything other than an occasionally good team. And Chelsea did have a great season, but there's nothing to point to that says they'll do it again. And don't give me any talk about Leicester ...

 

It's us or City, and City are no longer seen as the benchmark. Teams believe they can get at them, and the aura is no longer there. Like Tyson after he was finally put down, they don't scare anyone any more. 

 

So, it's us again. This team has been on a non-stop upwards trajectory for the last few years, and right now they're just resting before kicking back into top gear. City in 2nd,, maybe by only 10 or so points, and Chelsea or Arsenal in 3rd and 4th. Someone might step up and make the battle for Europa places more involved, but reports of LFC's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

[Gabe]

4 hours ago, CheekyLee said:

Can everyone just please stop thinking that Man U are going to do anything? They had an amazing run of wins by 3 goals, this is true. What nobody mentions is that it was against the bottom 4 teams. United are not top 4 opposition, and won't be for some time yet.

 

Tottenham are done, too. Mourinho is a busted flush, he'll never get back to the top of the mountain. Arsenal might do something, but they need a ton of work to be anything other than an occasionally good team. And Chelsea did have a great season, but there's nothing to point to that says they'll do it again. And don't give me any talk about Leicester ...

 

It's us or City, and City are no longer seen as the benchmark. Teams believe they can get at them, and the aura is no longer there. Like Tyson after he was finally put down, they don't scare anyone any more. 

 

So, it's us again. This team has been on a non-stop upwards trajectory for the last few years, and right now they're just resting before kicking back into top gear. City in 2nd,, maybe by only 10 or so points, and Chelsea or Arsenal in 3rd and 4th. Someone might step up and make the battle for Europa places more involved, but reports of LFC's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

 

You what? Whereas we've beaten the mighty...Crystal Palace since the restart? It's a weird thing to cling to point to, given that they are the form team since the restart. Plus, prior to that, they beat both Chelsea and City home and away in the league and other teams around the top. With this and the comment the other week that Williams would be first choice at any other club I'm beginning to think you're on a long-play wind-up.

 

Also, City are still a fantastic team, much better technically than us and much more attacking (c.f. the boatload of goals they score) and, dare I say it, they more consistently play better football. That doesn't take anything away from Liverpool, but anybody counting them out is a fool.

 

Which is also why I suspect that post was tongue-in-cheek, but you never know anymore.

[bradigor]

City are the best squad ever assembled in the history of football. We beat them to a title with ease and apparently only have 11 players worth a damn*. So y'know... football.

 

*if you listen to pundits and other team's fans. 

[bradigor]

Thiago looks like being an interesting one. Terms agreed with the player, Klopp wants him, but club valuations are too far apart. I don't see us budging much, so ball is in Bayern's court. 

[dizogg]

Seems a weird one because his age doesn’t fit with the usual profile of a player we’d sign. I guess that’s why there’s a valuation gap. Also makes me think this is someone who would be really good for us as otherwise we wouldn’t even consider it at that age.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Going for experience. Not a bad thing especially as Klopp is planning to blood in a lot of youngsters. 

[bradigor]

Phil Coutinho rumours surfacing again. This time a potential £9m season long loan. 

I wonder if sometimes a player and a club are just meant for each other, hence why they never do great elsewhere. Phil could be that with us. I'd welcome him back at the right price / wages if I am being honest, he has an ability to produce some magic from nothing and unlock those tight games when defences site back. Could be funded with the sale of Shaqiri and wages freed up with him and Lallana leaving. 

I don't honestly think it will happen and it is just his agent trying to shop him around, but I wouldn't be against the idea. 

[Gabe]

The problem with Coutinho is where do you play him? Him leaving meant the midfield became a bit more solid and the front 3 had a bit more freedom to play. Whilst I agree we do need some creativity in midfield, I'm not sure Phil fits now into the team Klopp has shaped.

[ryodi]

Coutinho is not coming back. He burnt his bridges on the way out and the club couldn’t justify his wages. He’s going to end up on loan at Arsenal. What the club should do is try and get Danny Ings back so we’ll have a backup striker who actually scores goals.

[JamesTW]

Yeah get him back, creativity and some long range shooting which we don’t have, Fabinho is ok 

[bradigor]

Danny Ings is too good to play backup, he has earned his move to a club where he is the main man. His injuries really ruined it for him at Liverpool unfortunately. God I love Danny ings. ||

BRING HIM BACK!

[Azrael]

Firmino can play back-up to DIngs 

[Stig]

2 days to go

 

 

 

[ryodi]

 

Gerrard’s number before he got the 8 shirt. I wonder if TAA might get Clyne’s number. 2 shirt when he leaves or he’ll keep 66.

 

[glb]

Tomorrow

 

[gospvg]

Is our final game of the season against Newcastle going to be shown on Sky or BT?

[Stig]

4 hours ago, glb said:

Tomorrow

 

 

I hope he does the shuffle still.