Jump to content
rllmuk
glb

Liverpool Football Club Thread

Recommended Posts

The papers said he did, the club said he didn't. The joke going round is the £1 is the quid that Carra threw back into the crowd at Highbury :lol:

What would really piss me off (if he left for Arsenal) is all the BS he said about having to move on because of the UK press. He clearly wants more than we can offer him and used that as a crappy excuse. We should stay strong though and keep refusing unless a foreign club comes in with a big offer. We shouldn't sell to another Premiership club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's face it, he's a massive twat. Talent wise he's too good for Liverpool and Arsenal currently, but if he wants to go then the only clubs ahead of Liverpool who can afford him and need a striker are now Arsenal, Chelsea and Real. He doesn't have a lot of options, and only one of the three clubs has shown any real interest so far.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's all well and good, but if it turns out there is a release clause in his contract then he is going to look incredibly daft.

That said, I'd be inclined to trust Liverpool over Suarez, obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You think that's a good statement? I mean I'm certainly not gonna get massively pissed off about an amusing dig, but from a professional perspective it's pretty lacking in respect. Arsenal are only bidding for a player, after all; we're not conducting our business in some horrible Barca-esque manner, or bleating to the press about every development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is just the interpretation of the clause that varies between peoples' understanding. Having said that, the £40m + £1 offer is clearly a pisstake, albeit a funny one. But it helps because it has now raised the bar for Real to match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You think that's a good statement? I mean I'm certainly not gonna get massively pissed off about an amusing dig, but from a professional perspective it's pretty lacking in respect. Arsenal are only bidding for a player, after all; we're not conducting our business in some horrible Barca-esque manner, or bleating to the press about every development.

I said strong not good. I'd have preferred a more generic statement that Liverpool have rejected the bid but Henry has really put his reputation on the line with a dig like that so be must be fairly confident Liverpools interpretation of the contract is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You think that's a good statement? I mean I'm certainly not gonna get massively pissed off about an amusing dig, but from a professional perspective it's pretty lacking in respect. Arsenal are only bidding for a player, after all; we're not conducting our business in some horrible Barca-esque manner, or bleating to the press about every development.

I'm not over the moon about how Arsenal are conducting themselves, really. They've clearly been talking to Suarez' agent, right? I mean, they must have. It's either that or Gazidis believed the media release clause bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stuff about the release clause was put out there ages ago, and about the conflict in perceptions on that clause. Probably around the same time that Liverpool leaked details of the first bid. I wouldn't say Arsenal have "clearly" been tapping him up, personally. None of these leaks are coming from our end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not over the moon about how Arsenal are conducting themselves, really. They've clearly been talking to Suarez' agent, right? I mean, they must have. It's either that or Gazidis believed the media release clause bullshit.

Everyone talks to everyone's agent. Welcome to football in 2013.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't make it right, does it? I'm not crying about it; just pointing out that just because Arsenal haven't been using the media to influence the transfer, it doesn't mean they're the 'good guys' in this saga and beyond reproach for their conduct. First of all, they're trying to buy 'The Biggest Cunt in the Football Universe', according to the majority of 'neutral' football fans. Second, they've blatantly been in contact with said cunt/cunt's agent. And finally, they've made a series of derisory bids. Yeah, he's a cunt that brings a lot of horrible baggage with him, but he's our cunt, and he's fucking brilliant. If you want him to be your cunt that everyone hates because he is both a cunt and brilliant, then you surely accept that him being a cunt doesn't really matter. Then you pay the going rate, which, for whatever insane reason, seems to be over £50m this summer.

I'm going to assume you couldn't be bothered to read the above, XYZ, so here's a XYZ flavoured one-liner for you: everyone is worth over £50m. Welcome to football in 2013.

  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In what world is £40m derisory? It might be for Messi or Ronaldo, but surely that's it. It might not quite be enough for your liking, or Liverpool's, but to call it derisory is pushing it big time.

I can't agree that you can just discount the horrendous behaviour of the guy when pricing him either. Arsenal are a club known for doing things in ‘the right way’, and I think most neutral supporters would agree that the club generally acts in a comparatively classy fashion. Similarly, Real Madrid have got rid of Mourinho and are seemingly trying to oust Pepé, so you’d have to assume they’re trying to reclaim their public image to an extent, something which they used to value very highly. These are seemingly the two clubs who might sign Suarez, a guy with an appalling back catalogue of on-pitch behaviour.

Rodgers says Suarez is worth as much as Cavani. Let’s ignore Cavani’s far superior domestic goalscoring record for a second – one of those guys is a great striker who behaves well on the field, and the other is a great striker who behaves like a cunt time and time again, picking up lengthy bans on a regular basis. No buying club, especially one that likes to think it has lofty values, is going to ignore that when putting bids in, and it’s naïve of the selling club to do so too (assuming LFC entertain the idea of selling him). Christ, if Arsenal bought him they can’t even play him until October! How can you possibly discount that fact when talking about how much he is worth?

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In what world is £40m derisory? It might be for Messi or Ronaldo, but surely that's it. It might not quite be enough for your liking, or Liverpool's, but to call it derisory is pushing it big time.

In this world where seemingly every good player is worth £30m+. In the world where Cavani and Falcao just went for £55m-odd. I wouldn't necessarily say the £40m offer was exactly 'derisory' but the £30m one definitely was.

I can't agree that you can just discount the horrendous behaviour of the guy when pricing him either. Arsenal are a club known for doing things in ‘the right way’, and I think most neutral supporters would agree that the club generally acts in a comparatively classy fashion.

So what are they doing trying to buy a proven cunt? One that, as you hint at, will most likely sully the club's image. Perhaps it's that they are aware he's a cunt but feel he's so good on the pitch that they don't care about the rest. Once they've decided they want him his personality is just a detail. The bottom line is he was arguably the best player in the league last season - over the course of the season, not just January/February to May like Bale, or up until November/December like RvP - he has years left on his contract and the club don't want to sell him. Why would we possibly sell him to you for less than we value him at, given the cards we're holding? Put it this way: he wasn't in contention to win the player of the year award because he's unpopular. Does that mean that he wasn't actually one of the best in the league? Nope. He'd win Arsenal a lot of games, and they know it.

Similarly, Real Madrid have got rid of Mourinho and are seemingly trying to oust Pepé, so you’d have to assume they’re trying to reclaim their public image to an extent, something which they used to value very highly. These are seemingly the two clubs who might sign Suarez, a guy with an appalling back catalogue of on-pitch behaviour.

It doesn't matter who the clubs are. You're essentially saying they're not above buying the biggest cunt in the world and sending him out wearing their shirt every week, but they are above paying the going rate for someone as good as him.

Rodgers says Suarez is worth as much as Cavani. Let’s ignore Cavani’s far superior domestic goalscoring record for a second

Let's not. Suarez has outscored Cavani over the course of their respective careers. His performances for his country also shit all over Cavani's. He is more dynamic and influences a game more than him. I rate Cavani and I want Suarez out of our club, but Suarez is a better footballer than Cavani.

...one of those guys is a great striker who behaves well on the field, and the other is a great striker who behaves like a cunt time and time again, picking up lengthy bans on a regular basis. No buying club, especially one that likes to think it has lofty values, is going to ignore that when putting bids in, and it’s naïve of the selling club to do so too (assuming LFC entertain the idea of selling him). Christ, if Arsenal bought him they can’t even play him until October! How can you possibly discount that fact when talking about how much he is worth?

Because Arsenal obviously don't care about all of that! If they are so put off by his character, why are they bidding on him? They think they can get a quality player on the cheap. Liverpool have long ago accepted Suarez' mental defects. He has three years on his contract and we don't need to sell him. We hold all the cards and it's a simple case of pay what we think he's worth, or go away.
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good reply. I don't think it's as much his character you need to take account of though, but the problems that result from that character (bad PR for one, but more importantly, pretty frequent periods where he is suspended from playing). I think any club will 'care' about that. The fact he's unavailable until October is a big deal.

On Cavani: he has scored more than Suarez for the last couple of seasons, and is generally played out of position for Uruguay so it's a tad unfair to compare them on that front. But this isn't terribly important.

Anyway, one thing I'd say is that you only hold the cards if Suarez agrees to be professional and level-headed if he's made to stay. Ronaldo did it in his last season at Man Utd, as did Modric for Spurs. Conversely Fabregas did not, feigning injuries and then eventually going on strike. Given his past behaviour, I'd expect that if Suarez really does want to move then that's the very least he'd be capable of.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the Cavani and Falcao fees are comparable though.

Both went to desperate clubs who know they have to pay excessive amounts to get their European standing up. With money no object they bid and bid hard, also doing this because they had genuine competition for both players. You never know exactly what is hype and what is real but I'm sure City and Chelsea bid for them both and then baulked at the fee which drove the Cavani thing higher.

Whereas with Suarez so far it's only been one sided talk from the player about Madrid and a concrete offer from Arsenal. City bought elsewhere, Chelsea want Rooney. I don't see an auction for Suarez. If Madrid really want him then he'll just refuse Arsenal. Arsenal won't pay the massive fee you want unless they get desperate, and realistically that isn't going to happen until the deadline. Is it really better to get ten million more hours before the window shuts like with Torres, or accept less now and not be rushed into another Carrol debacle?

Obviously the ideal solution is big money now or he stays, but the player is incessantly running his mouth. How will he react if he doesn't get the Arsenal move he believes he is due as per his contract? Personally I think the move is agent and agenda driven, get out now because he's never played in the Champions League with Liverpool and his agent no doubt in his ear for his cut. My personal view is he's a super competitive person who knows no bounds to achieve his objective, often going completely too far and think he'll pull no end of stunts and sulk til he gets his way. 10 million aint worth the hassle.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, one thing I'd say is that you only hold the cards if Suarez agrees to be professional and level-headed if he's made to stay. Ronaldo did it in his last season at Man Utd, as did Modric for Spurs. Conversely Fabregas did not, feigning injuries and then eventually going on strike. Given his past behaviour, I'd expect that if Suarez really does want to move then that's the very least he'd be capable of.

I don't think he'll be here at the start of the season. I think the club are just holding out for a big offer; nothing more. However, if that offer doesn't come in, I'm happy for him to stay and fill in on one of wings for us next season - and I believe Rodgers likely feels the same. I'd sooner see him rot and leave for nothing in 3 years, his career a mess, than see the club get bullied into selling him on the cheap because they're scared he won't act in a professional manner.

I get what you're saying, I do. But I just think LFC are standing strong on this one and it'll pay off in the end.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arsenal were standing strong on Fabregas too, contractually speaking. But if the player really wants to go (and is prepared to be awkward about it), and there's only one bidder, it doesn't always work out how the selling club would ideally like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the Cavani and Falcao fees are comparable though.

Both went to desperate clubs who know they have to pay excessive amounts to get their European standing up. With money no object they bid and bid hard, also doing this because they had genuine competition for both players. You never know exactly what is hype and what is real but I'm sure City and Chelsea bid for them both and then baulked at the fee which drove the Cavani thing higher.

I know they're not 100% comparable but my driving point is that a player is only worth what the buying club is willing to pay. However, that doesn't mean we have no option but to sell to Arsenal at £40m. I think the club thinks they can get more for him than that, and if not, then fuck his crying, he can stay.

Whereas with Suarez so far it's only been one sided talk from the player about Madrid and a concrete offer from Arsenal. City bought elsewhere, Chelsea want Rooney. I don't see an auction for Suarez. If Madrid really want him then he'll just refuse Arsenal. Arsenal won't pay the massive fee you want unless they get desperate, and realistically that isn't going to happen until the deadline. Is it really better to get ten million more hours before the window shuts like with Torres, or accept less now and not be rushed into another Carrol debacle?

Yes. I don't think we'll go out and buy another striker to replace him, anyway. I'd expect any funds he brings in to be used to strengthen the positions that we're actually weak in, and not necessarily in this window.

Obviously the ideal solution is big money now or he stays, but the player is incessantly running his mouth. How will he react if he doesn't get the Arsenal move he believes he is due as per his contract? Personally I think the move is agent and agenda driven, get out now because he's never played in the Champions League with Liverpool and his agent no doubt in his ear for his cut. My personal view is he's a super competitive person who knows no bounds to achieve his objective, often going completely too far and think he'll pull no end of stunts and sulk til he gets his way. 10 million aint worth the hassle.

I mostly agree with your sentiment here but I do think it's worth the hassle. It sends the message that other clubs can't just come and lean on us to take what's ours. It's not a clear-cut case of he can cause us problems if he doesn't get his way. He's got three years left on his contract. If he wants to fuck the club over because he didn't get his way, the club can completely ruin his career. Yeah, it'd cost money and it's unlikely but the threat of it is real enough that it may taper the way he behaves. The most important thing, to me, is the club is finally displaying some strength. I've been delighted with the way things have been handled since January. There's been a clear shift in mentality and it's great to see.

If Arsenal really want him, it's not going to necessarily require £55m. But I think LFC will rinse them for every last penny they can, and force Suarez to forfeit his loyalty bonus. I don't think we're quite at that stage yet.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arsenal were standing strong on Fabregas too, contractually speaking. But if the player really wants to go (and is prepared to be awkward about it), and there's only one bidder, it doesn't always work out how the selling club would ideally like.

I'm aware of that. I don't expect Arsenal to be the only club in the world interested in him at £40m but even if they are, once that has been ascertained LFC can then offer him to Arsenal at that price after he's handed in a transfer request. There's no need to panic just now, they know the minimum they'll get for him is £40m if they want it; and they clearly think they can get more so we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with this transfer is its Arsenal and they are really the only team in the top 4 we can maybe compete with, City, United & Chelsea are automatic, if Suarez goes to Arsenal Im not sure what the point of bothering is, I think I'd be happier selling him to United!

Until we get in the CL again which would be hard even with Suarez is we are always going to be in a vicious circle of our best players wanting to leave (Coutinho next?) and not being able to attract anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On Cavani: he has scored more than Suarez for the last couple of seasons, and is generally played out of position for Uruguay so it's a tad unfair to compare them on that front. But this isn't terribly important.

But if Suarez has been banned for prolonged periods AND played under Kenny for the season before last, that's still a really good record.

I think Liverpool might wait for £48 million or something. I wouldn't mind 'some Russian team' doing the dirty, I'd be less bothered then. Bit less arduous than

A: How about £30 million?

L: No.

A: £35 mil?

L: No...

A: £40 mil?

L: No.

A: £40,000,001?

L: Please stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with this transfer is its Arsenal and they are really the only team in the top 4 we can maybe compete with, City, United & Chelsea are automatic, if Suarez goes to Arsenal Im not sure what the point of bothering is, I think I'd be happier selling him to United!

Until we get in the CL again which would be hard even with Suarez is we are always going to be in a vicious circle of our best players wanting to leave (Coutinho next?) and not being able to attract anyone

Teams don't revolve around one player, we showed plenty of times when Suarez wasn't available how well the team can play. Arsenal have bigger issues than just needing a striker, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the Beeb, Suarez has asked to hold talks with Arsenal. Even if Liverpool block the move, how does that sit with you lot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want him gone, and as I've said before I don't care who takes him. He's a liability, and his strike rate isn't as good as it should be given his profile. I'd have folded at 40 million, but if we can get 50, then brilliant. Sturridge can then get the starring role he deserves, and we'd be able to heavily invest in other areas of the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want him gone too. His record of behaviour on and off pitch just makes me think the club are better off without.

Problem is, I am unsure if we will invest the money wisely. When Suarez joined us we were a club that had finished outside the CL places the season before, but had a good record prior to that. We seem to have slipped since then though, and I am not sure we can attract that calibre of player at the moment if I am honest. If we are going to sell a world class talent then we need someone with that kind of spark and invention to replace him as, cunt or not, he not only scored a crapload for us but also created loads too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've had a bid or Soldado rejected and that's even without Suarez being sold. The fact we have bid for him after already signing 4 players and holding out on bids for Suarez fills me with confidence that finally we're starting to do things right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.