Liverpool Football Club Thread

[Istanbul]

[JamesTW]

Just get someone else! Rodgers has some very good players there, I know sometimes some of them are injured but gets nothing out of them, don't even create any chances or do anything, as I said 2 goals and both individual class

[ryodi]

Ancelotti's currently out of work and while he might not win the league I've yet to see him put out a terrible team.

Rodger's should at least give Bogdan a start, I can't believe he's any worse than Mignolet who repeatedly inspires panic in his defenders.

[feltmonkey]

Are you guys really calling for your manager's head after five games? The season before last you nearly pulled off the most unexpected, over-achieved title in decades. I know you think you should be challenging for the title every year, but that is a long way from the reality of where Liverpool are at the moment. If you had won that, it would have been mind-blowing.

Since then, you've lost all four of the players who were most responsible for that successful season - two sold, one injured, one into semi-retirement. You can complain that you didn't replace those players, but how can you? You're not going to be able to compete to sign players of the quality of Saurez and Sterling at the moment. You can't blame the manager either for them leaving or the quality of the replacements, particularly as you operate with a baffling transfer set-up. Some sort of committee, yeah?

Your squad is a bit unbalanced, and lacking in some areas, and there are still a lot of players settling in. The goalkeeper looks a bit weak. The fullbacks are good, but both very new. Centreback is a problem position. I personally don't rate any of your three first-choice players, but the market for decent CBs is crazy. City paid £30m for a guy they're using as back-up. United couldn't find one, and are having to play Blind out of position - he played really well yesterday, but he's a problem back there. You have great options in central midfield. Henderson, Milner, and Can are all good players. Lucas was a liability for you, committing pointless fouls all over the pitch. Coutinho is a fantastic player. I also like Lallana, although I understand you haven't taken to him. You look light on effective wingers. From what I've seen of Ibe and Markovic they aren't going to win games for you. Up front you're fine. Benteke is excellent, and Sturridge is finally coming back. Ings is a solid back-up.

The problem is a lack of creativity without Coutinho, Henderson and Lallana, a shakey defence, and a lack of a genuinely world-class player to build on a generally decent, solid squad. There aren't many of them around though. United haven't really got one either.

You're probably pretty suspicious of my motives for posting in here as a United fan, but I genuinely don't have anything against Liverpool, and I get on well with you guys in the general football thread. I just think you're being a bit knee-jerk calling for Rodgers' head considering the mitigating factors in yesterday's defeat. How many of your most creative players were unavailable?

[JohnnyNolan]

To be honest the calling for his head isn't based on one game. It's been growing from last season, were his tactics and ability to get the best of the players at his disposal have been questioned. The fact the the quality of play this season has been poor, bar 45 minutes against Arsenal, has only added to this.

I think most Liverpool fans understand that replacing a Gerrard or Suarez is a hugely difficult task and know that will impact on our team, but that's not been the issue. The issue has been poor displays, tactical issues and players either being played out of position or under performing. In the last 12 months who could you say has been on form for us. I think I could only count Coutinho and Henderson.

[glb]

All fair points Feltmonkey, but yeah ire has been building for a while. What irks me the most is that our players think that level of performance, in our biggest away game of the season, is even remotely acceptable.

If the staff on and off the field can't raise things for United then there are problems. That's not to say I expected a win, I didn't, but to be so aimless, sloppy and lacking identity is baffling. And with all due respect, they weren't facing a vintage United team, far, far from it so to be swept away so comprehensibly is worrying.

And you might dislike us more if we were any good

[Doomguy]

To be honest the calling for his head isn't based on one game. It's been growing from last season, were his tactics and ability to get the best of the players at his disposal have been questioned. The fact the the quality of play this season has been poor, bar 45 minutes against Arsenal, has only added to this.

I think most Liverpool fans understand that replacing a Gerrard or Suarez is a hugely difficult task and know that will impact on our team, but that's not been the issue. The issue has been poor displays, tactical issues and players either being played out of position or under performing. In the last 12 months who could you say has been on form for us. I think I could only count Coutinho and Henderson.

I remember when Rodgers was unveiled he said he gave a 100 page document detailing his epic plan to make liverpool win the league. Which says it all. All talk.

The only flourishes of greatness came from Suarez (who he didn't buy) Gerrard, and a bunch of other players who were already there.

He had his chance and pissed it (and god knows how many millions) up the wall.

[Gabe]

Stuff

I don't know any Liverpool fan that thinks we should be challenging for the title - even before last season kicked-off you wouldn't have found too many thinking that. Most recognise that we are a team attempting to get back into the top-4, but fall a bit further behind each year. And the problems of balance in the team has been an issue for a long time, as are the personnel problems. None of these are new things, that's part of the problem. The other is that Rodgers doesn't seem to have any real idea how to get the best out of players, especially our forward players. With Suarez and Gerrard around that was less of an issue as they could create stuff for you, but only Benteke is played in the right position at the moment and it just makes us incredibly lightweight and impotent up top.

The frustration is that you do feel the players we have aren't bad, and if a formation was based around the strengths of a first-choice 11 (does Rodgers even know who that would be?) then I think our general play and results would be better. But instead of that, he'll change the shape - with the same players - all the time and expect them to adapt. The Arsenal game is the only one where we've looked threatening when going forward, and fairly solid at the back - and even that was for only half the game. Every other performance has been a real struggle.

Edit: And I'm not calling for his head - I think he needs to change his mentality - but I can certainly understand the reasons people are.

[Azrael]

I'm just fed up with his stubbornness, the best we played was with 2 strikers, yet he keeps trying to force 4-3-3 with players not suitable for the positions.

Firmino and Ings were completely wasted yesterday and he should have seen that and changed to two up front with Firmino behind at the tip of a diamond.

If he doesn't change then i'm all for giving someone else a shot who may use the players correctly. Though I don't know who we'd get.

[hmm]

My problem with him is very simple: he's failing to get either the defensive or offensive side of the team to operate effectively and we're losing many of our games in a miserable, hopeless fashion. This was the case for most of last season and after a brief flurry of unconvincing points at the start of this one we're now firmly resurrecting that same pattern. I would have a lot more patience if we were at least losing or drawing games the way we were in his first season - attacking well and creating heaps of chances, even if we tended to squander them and then get sucker-punched. Our players may not be world beaters but they're better than this insipid football he's got them serving up and he's fast running out of credit.

[angel]

out by xmas i reckon

[SMD]

What exactly are you proposing is shaken up?

[angel]

i agree with a lot of that and on top, i think he doesnt know what hes doing. out of his depth since day one, like nigel adkins managing a champions league side, and hes just got away with papering over the cracks. he plays the 'little horses' card too, young team, still learning bullshit too often aswell. oh and hes spent £291,550,000 on players

[dizogg]

Oh are you not a fan of Rodgers, angel? Maybe you need to make another 20 posts about him just to drill the message home.

[angel]

3 lines discussing him after his latest outing. hardly excessive.

[Oh Danny Boy]

i agree with a lot of that and on top, i think he doesnt know what hes doing. out of his depth since day one, like nigel adkins managing a champions league side, and hes just got away with papering over the cracks. he plays the 'little horses' card too, young team, still learning bullshit too often aswell. oh and hes spent £291,550,000 on players

A) Net spend is more accurate

B) Most of the transfers were not Rodgers but a committee.

Rodgers should be given the season and if no improvement is made then look for a replacement. If he plays one up front with both Sturridge and Coutinho back I might do my nut

[milko]

I've been fairly supportive of him but am now in the Rodgers should go camp as opposed to the Rodgers Out! camp.

I'm in the Popular People's Front Of Rodgers To Leave, myself. Splitter!

[Gabe]

i agree with a lot of that and on top, i think he doesnt know what hes doing. out of his depth since day one, like nigel adkins managing a champions league side, and hes just got away with papering over the cracks. he plays the 'little horses' card too, young team, still learning bullshit too often aswell. oh and hes spent £291,550,000 on players

And how much has LVG spent at Man U in a third of the time? Pushing £200m, easily.

[Gabe]

I think Brendan's biggest problem had been his 'weakness'. As a young and promising manager he perhaps doesn't have enough arrogance and swagger about him for a team with the historically-based expectations of Liverpool. He got away with it for a while when the nice youthfulness of it all looked fresh and exciting but when you start to struggle all those question marks suddenly look to have negative answers attached.

I don't really know what you mean by this. The image it springs to mind is a Mourinho-type attitude - he's certainly arrogant and has a swagger. Does that make him a better manager in and of itself? Probably not. Makes him better at deflecting attention from his team, but you could argue that Rodgers' insistence that we show 'character' in awful performances or lacked a 'wee bit of class' when we fail to score and get a tonking does the same thing (because everybody laughs at him). Besides, I think, generally, you need to earn that swagger, you can't just expect to have it from the off.

The main problem people have, I think, is something that Rodgers can (and should) change - that is, stop playing half the team out of position. It doesn't take a new manager to do that.

[Chewylegs]

I think Brendan's biggest problem had been his 'weakness'

I think his weakness is that even at his young age he is too stubborn and arrogant to be flexible about his football. He seems to have decided he's learnt enough already and that's that, no need to do anything different.

He does my nut in too!

[angel]

And how much has LVG spent at Man U in a third of the time? Pushing £200m, easily.

i agree, his record his poor, but rogers wont ever get them anywhere, hes peaked by a mile

[Rev]

I don't think Rodgers has peaked, but I do think his time at Liverpool is over. He's got a lot of lessons to learn from it, but if he does he can go on and be successful elsewhere. A genuine opportunity for mutual benefit if it is done sooner rather than later.

[Istanbul]

People don't like him. People don't want him. He does so many things to rub you the wrong way. The list of things not to like continues to grow weekly. Soon it will be Hodgson levels of disdain towards him. Well, maybe not that much, but it is getting there. The fanbase is coming together, and the opinion is...he has to go. He should have went at the end of last season. I can't believe we chose him of Kenny or Rafa. Absolutely crazy, unless you're a Boston business man that is.

[SMD]

There are a lot of crazy criticisms of him, like he's too stubborn but he abandoned his principles, he doesn't give players chances but he keeps playing people out of position. He's made a lot of mistakes but there are a lot of short memories and blind spots too.

Theres zero point getting a young manager in and having him learn to improve elsewhere.

[angel]

no, they need an experienced proper manager, like i said a few months ago id be pulling up trees for someone like ancelotti. plays people in their positions, good communication with his players, was a CV to prove hes done it at the top level, commands respect. i cant see how any of them respect rodgers.

[SMD]

Sorry but the club's ambition should extend further than finding miracle workers.

[SMD]

no, they need an experienced proper manager, like i said a few months ago id be pulling up trees for someone like ancelotti. plays people in their positions, good communication with his players, was a CV to prove hes done it at the top level, commands respect. i cant see how any of them respect rodgers.

Ancelotti got utterly reamed at Milan and Chelsea for not being strong enough or versatile enough to change things, why do you think he'd overhaul Liverpool?

[JohnnyNolan]

I think Carragher made some good points on MNF.

The squad is overloaded in certain positions and weak in others. We have three number 10's Coutinho/Lallana/Firmino of which none seem suited to being played anywhere outside that specific position just off the striker(s). Stick them out wide and they disappear in a game. He also noted we've lost almost all the pace we had up front from the first couple of seasons under Rodgers with Suarez and Sterling gone, and Sturridge mostly injured, which makes us far easier to defend against. They also picked up on Ings being too defensively minded during the game at the weekend, which along with a lack of supporting pace helped isolate Benteke.

I was interested to see he doesn't think Milner and Henderson will be an effective midfield pairing either.

Rodgers has to look at how to get the best out of this squad and if performances and results don't improve he will come under huge pressure. He was one of the bookies favourite for the sack at the start of the season.

[Doomguy]

Rodger's is a decent enough manager but the expectations for Liverpool are above where we realistically are so we need a real difference making manager who can add something we don't really have. Brendan probably has us performing on par, excepting some recent bad results, but we want more than that which requires someone more 'special'. It's a little unrealistic but there you go.

Top 4 for liverpool is not unrealistic. They're one of the richest, most popular clubs on the planet. I agree you need someone a bit special to push on but considering liverpool are the 7th in the richest club list why is that a big ask?

[angel]

Ancelotti got utterly reamed at Milan and Chelsea for not being strong enough or versatile enough to change things, why do you think he'd overhaul Liverpool?

i think thats a bit of an overstatement, and i think he'd command instant respect of the dressing room - and he'd stop playing people out of position. im not saying hes perfect but hes a hell of a better choice than rodgers. put it this way too, when rodgers goes, who do you think is going to come calling for him. a man utd, an everton, a spurs? or....a blackpool, a hull, a bolton. thats his level.