Liverpool Football Club Thread

[redbloodcell]

I'm not saying they're sure-fire certs, but that with the required amount of luck any team needs in any cup competition they've got enough quality to take chances.

I'd not be making any bets like that with what's hardly a formidable second choice defensive lineup.

[Rev]

I'd not be making any bets like that with what's hardly a formidable second choice defensive lineup.

A couple of the wrong injuries will ruin any team's cup run though. The only real problem is that Liverpool seem to have become like Man City of being completely unable to adapt to European matches and I don't really see Rogers as being someone who can easily solve that.

[redbloodcell]

A couple of the wrong injuries will ruin any team's cup run though. The only real problem is that Liverpool seem to have become like Man City of being completely unable to adapt to European matches and I don't really see Rogers as being someone who can easily solve that.

Unless it's at the expense of totally abandoning the league those backups are going to have to play their share of games in Europe too though, and I doubt that the ownership or the majority of the Liverpool fanbase would accept capitulation in the league purely for a chance at the EL.

[Istanbul]

No, he's wrong. People come in here because we're interested in football and are curious to see how Liverpool fans think their team is doing pre season. The fact that every now and then Istanbul goes off on one and gets negged for it is unrelated to that. Well, except for the clear indication that everyone would rather he got back to talking about football rather than some conspiracy the "insidious" forum users have against him.

No, I do post about football, all the time. But I get abused and negged anyway because I dared to go against the status quo in the past. A status quo which I see as unacceptable. The constant snideness and people stating things that are simply incorrect, and yet everyone agrees...not because it's right, but because they want to.

Do you think if someone else had posted that article, it would have received 8 negs within 40 minutes? Doubtful.

Another example, and I'm not having a go at SaintM here, I'm really not, I have no wish to engage in another argument...I'm just using this as an example...

He says in a post that Liverpool have offered Clyne what they couldn't..."loadsa a money"

I say it wasn't just about money. The only two things said in each post...his gets loads of +'s, I get loads of -'s.

Why? Is one really right and one really wrong? Nope. Would two other people conducting that exchange receive such a response from other users? Nope. It's because of the people on this board, who they know and who they support, and what has gone on in the past. It's not about being right or factual, it's about going along with the crowd, like the sheep they are...confirming their prejudices and backing up their mates. It's disgusting at times. It seems I'm never far away from a snide remark outright insult, and it's a shame that people feel that this behaviour is acceptable, or they can't see what they are doing. But of course, none of this will matter, someone will just call me a name, make a snide remark or start the neg bandwagon, I can't make a post in this section of the forum without someone jumping on it negatively. It is childish and pathetic. And I really couldn't care less about the negs, it doesn't matter at all, it's the fact that people can't see or choOse not to see what is going on that annoys me the most.

[SaintM]

I don't think calling people 'sheep neggers' is a very positive message, likely to remedy your predicament.

You clearly have much to offer the football threads, though maybe after growing a bit of a thicker skin to go along with your obvious passion for the game.

Getting frustrated and (worse of all) voicing it has spiral of doom written all over it.

At least you're not gooner4life. That guy should be drummed out of town for that Istanbullshit pun on the other page. The lads had a shocker.

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Maybe people just like pushing your [neg] buttons?

With no actual football during the aptly named Silly Season a guaranteed meltdown is the next best thing. Why do you even care what people have to say about a football club? It's not your mum or anything dude!

[SaintM]

I'm not saying they're sure-fire certs, but that with the required amount of luck any team needs in any cup competition they've got enough quality to take chances.

They can't win it, it has Southamptons name all over it already (starting on Thursday!).

[Istanbul]

I don't think calling people 'sheep neggers' is a very positive message, likely to remedy your predicament.

You clearly have much to offer the football threads, though maybe after growing a bit of a thicker skin to go along with your obvious passion for the game.

Getting frustrated and (worse of all) voicing it has spiral of doom written all over it.

At least you're not gooner4life. That guy should be drummed out of town for that Istanbullshit pun on the other page. The lads had a shocker.

That's fair enough, and makes sense. Someone negged your post, I'll pos it to get it back in the grey.

[dogsout]

This is just like what happened with Jon in the Manc thread. Whenever someone asks the question "why have I been negged?", they're essentially guaranteeing that they will be negged relentlessly for a while. I don't really know how to explain this phenomenon but I've seen it many times.

Anyway, in terms of expectations for the coming season, mine are quite low. I think we were absolutely shocking in Europe, particularly tactically. The game where we came up against a 3-4-3, didn't have a scooby how to deal with it, and then subsequently decided to copy it for a while sticks out in my mind as a real low point.

I think we've brought in some very good players this summer and I'm excited about that, but I'm still worried about how he's going to set the midfield up and I'm acutely aware of how strong the teams above us are looking.

[SaintM]

Listening to the World Football pod today, the Euro 'expert' guy was saying he didn't think Benteke was a very good fit for you lot, given the way that he feeds off crosses but Liverpool don't play that way.

Do you think there is gonna be change in tactics, or will Benteke have to adapt? Is there a danger he's gonna be another player who does not fit into the team (ala Lambert or Ballotelli)?

[Commander Jameson]

Listening to the World Football pod today, the Euro 'expert' guy was saying he didn't think Benteke was a very good fit for you lot, given the way that he feeds off crosses but Liverpool don't play that way.

Do you think there is gonna be change in tactics, or will Benteke have to adapt? Is there a danger he's gonna be another player who does not fit into the team (ala Lambert or Ballotelli)?

I think that's exactly a big worry for a fair few Liverpool fans, myself included.

Even if Benteke has more in his locker than just power in the air (and I think he does), I'm concerned we may end up just lumping it up to him from defence.

[dogsout]

The thing is, we do actually cross a fair amount. Many of our attacks end in a low cross from an overload on the wing but we haven't got anyone attacking it. I think Benteke will be that guy we've been missing for these patterns of play. Milner and Henderson are both brilliant at it so hopefully we'll get a fair few more goals from crosses this season.

[Guest]

Because, as Istanbul has pointed out people behave like sheep, as proven by Timmo's post on the last page stating that it's a rule to neg anyone who dare bring up negs.

It's not a rule at all, it's just something that somebody said once upon a time and the people who don't have a mind of their own gladly follow suit.

Istanbul may say things that some of you don't agree with, but the way he's being treated for having the audacity to go against this pathetic unwritten rule is pretty bad.

Now get hitting that red button fellas, you know you want to! It's the rule after all, right?

And to think I only came in here, as I do on occasion as my mrs is a Liverpool supporter, to see what everyone is expecting for the season ahead.

[SaintM]

I don't think Timmo meant it was an actual rule.

[SaintM]

The thing is, we do actually cross a fair amount. Many of our attacks end in a low cross from an overload on the wing but we haven't got anyone attacking it. I think Benteke will be that guy we've been missing for these patterns of play. Milner and Henderson are both brilliant at it so hopefully we'll get a fair few more goals from crosses this season.

Least attempted and joint 3rd least succeeded last season apparently.

Least attempted and succeeded the season before then.

(based on the whoscored.com stats for 'Cross passes'. No idea how accurate those are)

[Guest]

I don't think Timmo meant it was an actual rule.

Well, quite. That proves my point perfectly.

Anyway, apologies for joining in the neg debate. I've made a promise to leave it alone as although the system is inherently wrong there's nothing that can be done about it at the moment.

I'll leave you dudes to get back to discussing your team. See you in the new season.

[dogsout]

And I wasn't having a pop at you about it, either. It's one of those things that makes me want to step in as a mod because it's clear that the recipient of the negs feels like they're being bullied, but at the same time it's generally a case of 'stop moaning about it and they'll stop negging you'. It's not an unwritten rule - it's more like you're putting a target on yourself by complaining.

[dogsout]

Least attempted and joint 3rd least succeeded last season apparently.

Least attempted and succeeded the season before then.

(based on the whoscored.com stats for 'Cross passes'. No idea how accurate those are)

I didn't mean crosses in the traditional sense, I'm specifically talking about cut-backs from overloads. I think his positioning will be a much greater asset than his prowess in the air, basically.

[Istanbul]

Mentioned him earlier in the thread, but it seems the Lucas Digne links are gaining traction.

Would make sense as we don't really have a lot of backup at LB when Enrique leaves.

Gomez was great there in preseason but is still very young. Wisdom can play there too, but is really more a RB (or even CB).

Given the doubts over Moreno's defensive capabilities, I'd rather have a more experienced option waiting.

I think overall, the defence is a cause for concern again. I'm happy with the starting back 4, but when one of them drops out, the backup is either very young, or simply not good enough. Tours is a solid player for a few games here and there, but I don't think he's reliable for a decent rub. Lovren is awful, making game changing errors consistently. Then of course you've got the younger full backs.

As we've said before, the defensive inadequacy of last season can't really be put down solely on the players. It is clear that the system played and perhaps the training given is largely to blame. There is no way for example we should be conceding 6 against Stoke. I hope this has been looked at extensively in the close season, and new systems and methods are in place to sort it all out.

[Istanbul]

I think that's exactly a big worry for a fair few Liverpool fans, myself included.

Even if Benteke has more in his locker than just power in the air (and I think he does), I'm concerned we may end up just lumping it up to him from defence.

I don't reckon we'll end up lumping it. What will happen, is that he'll just end up isolated and useless, a bit like Balotelli did. Then we'll bring on someone more suited to the system...Ings, Origi, Sturridge...who will do well...and Benteke will eventually end up the same way Balotelli has. Declared a waste of money who was never going to fit.

But, that's worst case scenario.

Talking to some Villa fans, they say by far the worse time of Benteke's Villa spell was when the ball was being lumped up to him during Lambert's reign. He was much better when they were actually playing football. He does honestly seem to have a lot more about him than simply getting on the end of crosses too...he has shown he can works hard, not just scoring but creating as well. However, he has been accused of 'going missing' at times, and I just hope that isn't the case with us. I've noticed it first hand whilst watching him for Belgium.

With Coutinho and Firmino in behind, they will be supplying through balls endlessly, if he can't get on to them, he will be a failure. Looking at preseason, it seems clear to me that the full backs are going to be more important than ever and have actively been told to cross more, perhaps in preparation for Benteke. So I do think we're going to see a slight shift in style to suit the big man, at least from the back. From midfield on, well stay true to what we have been playing.

[dogsout]

Who else remembers Moreno drilling in crosses only for literally everyone near the box to check to the edge and then moan at him? That became a trademark of Sturridge's game last season.

Benteke looks devastatingly effective at finding the overlapping runner with diagonal passes, too. I think there's a lot of reasons to be encouraged about the potential of our attack but, like Istanbul, I really do worry about the defence. Obviously it's still preseason but I'm still noticing the crazy gaps between midfield and defence.

[Istanbul]

I really do worry about the defence. Obviously it's still preseason but I'm still noticing the crazy gaps between midfield and defence.

I think the new midfield three is an attempt to tackle this. You've got Can as a proper DM who will run, tackle, and provide a wall - all with the experience he has last season playing in defence. Added to that Milner and Henderson who will run and run and run...at the very least harrowing opponents and providing cover to the defence, in particular the full backs who will getting forward more than ever now.

However, it all comes back to the system and effectively what they are told to do. That should be the priority, as given the proper setup and determination, any team can at least be solid. Whether this sacrifes some of the attacking play we have come to know under Rodgers is the question.

[dogsout]

Well, yeah but if no value is placed upon the space between midfield and defence then we're going to suffer the same old problems. As I said when he was appointed, I'm hoping O'Driscoll can help remedy the problem.

[dogsout]

This was part of my problem with the madness of last season as well. We didn't even look at Can as the DM. Even after he was being shredded on a weekly basis at full-back. Now we start the new season not really knowing if he's ready or not.

[The Fox]

This article attempts to refute the assertion that Benteke is a bad fit based on a supposed reliance on crosses: http://basstunedtored.com/2015/07/22/the-truth-about-benteke-and-crosses/

[JohnnyNolan]

Personally I hope he can maintain his ability at causing trouble from crosses as well as join in link up play. Our attacking game has been pretty obvious for a while, so it would be nice to have defenders having to worry about more than one style of play during a match. Add to that I think we have players who can put in a decent cross if the opportunity presents itself.

Mixing up our play a bit would be a good thing. It only becomes a problem when you go all out for one or the other.

[Istanbul]

Spotted a new player at training today...

Allan Rodrigues de Souza.

We were linked a while back: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/03/liverpool-allan-rodrigues-de-souza-internacional-luis-alberto

[Azrael]

Wisdom's off on loan to Norwich apparently. Good for him to get more experience (unless he harshly gets dropped again like the 2nd half of last season at WBA) but he'd be decent cover for us to have.

I'm looking forward to the season and interested in seeing how Benteke will fit in. With the squad we have I can see a few ways of playing;

Benteke lone striker with 2 of Coutinho, Firminio and Lallana behind him.

Strike partnership with Ings (or Sturridge when fixed).

Or central striker with Origi/Ibe and Sturridge/Markovic on the wings.

Or right centre back in a 3 man defence. With Rodgers you just never know.

[glb]

First game is but a week and a half away! Not sure why but thought there were still a few more weeks of pre-season remaining. Still have mixed feelings towards the new season. Think we've done good business, although as others have said more defensive cover would be the icing on the cake, and also worry about the team's mental strength. With the opening run of away fixtures the team faces they can't afford to be the pushovers they appeared to be in most big games last season.

[dizogg]

I don't actually care that much anymore. I'm really accepting that the best we can do is 5th. Like that's our par right now. But kind of just looking forward to watching us play again. Lots to be excited about.

Anyone know when Sturridge is due back by the way?