Liverpool Football Club Thread

[glb]

The table is a bit harsh on Origi as he hasn't played yet!

How many managers have a 100% transfer record? We're far from paupers but also don't splash out megabucks, the kind that secure sure-things, or as close as you can get in modern football for players not called Andy Carroll. Not defending some of the signings but Rodgers has rebuilt from scratch, rather than have a core that needed tweaking. So while the outlay is massive another season could up return we've seen so far, particularly from Markovic, Lallana and Moreno who have at least shown glimpses of being better than average.

We've got a very young squad when averaged out, and while I agree with the positions identified as being key targets for new signings, adding some seniority is going to be key. We look like we've lacked any real leadership on the pitch, particularly in the recent games against Man United, Arsenal and Villa. Henderson has shown glimpses of being a captain, but we don't have a spine. We're a jellyfish, flopping about, still able to sting at times but lacking a backbone when it really matters. But that's been the case since Rafa left, perhaps even before then. Maybe too many live in Gerrard's shadow? Maybe, as Muffin says, there will be a sense of balance once he's moved on. Rodgers needs to address this, and have to get us out the blocks quicker than we managed this season.

[Stig]

Finding a Suarez replacement was always going to be impossible, a player with his qualities doesn't come along often and not at the money the club wish to spend.

That's true and whilst I didn't expect a direct replacement we needed to get someone with great ability who could easily fill that void. Balotelli and Lambert arent those players.

Looking at that list, it's shocking how much money we've wasted on players we don't even play.

£7m on Ilori who hasn't played a single game for us and is out on loan making only 22 appearances for those clubs on 2 season.

£6.8m on Luis Alberto - Sent out on loan

£7m for Aspas - Sent out on loan

[joe bazooka]

Ah, 6-7 million is a cheap player these days. Lovren's the one big money signing who's shown no sign of improving. Which is weird. Don't think anybody expected him to be so poor. But then took Sakho a while to settle. Man, what I'd give for a young Hyypia.

Balotelli. I'd love to have seen him given a chance but doesn't look like it'll happen. Fuck knows what went on with his purchase. But come on guys, things were going pretty well until the United game and without the red card we could have easily got a draw out of that. Then the situation would be entirely different. As it is we've still got a chance for top four. That's an improvement for us over most of the last few years. And whoever the manager it's always going to be harder to persuade players to move to Liverpool over London.

How the fuck Glen Johnson gets a game I don't know.

[joe bazooka]

So how does the transfer policy work? Is it a committee like mention earlier & does BR get final approval or a veto?

br.JPG

Because after spending £211 Million on 20+ players from the list above only Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet, Sakho (this season) & Can have been decent the rest are all average or just plain crap. Approx a 1 in 5 player transfer has been a success.

I think Moreno's been good. And Manquilo, And Lallana and Allen. I think Markovic will come good. Samed Yesil scored two the other day, people reckon he'll be good but he's been PLAGUED by injury.

[gospvg]

Moreno sometimes seems a bit rash with his tackling, Manquilo is only on loan till the end of the season & he has not done enough to impress me to sign him. Lallana has had a poor season compared to last season at Southampton (due mainly to injuries). Allen is ok but not £15 million ok maybe £7 or £8 million. Markovic shows flashes now and again but not consistent.

I like the idea of taking players on loan with the option to purchase with an agreed price before the loan starts if they are good.

This season similar to last is a case of 'close, but no cigar' I think we will finish 5th.

[joe bazooka]

I dunno, I still think we might scrape into the top four. United are on a good run but we know these runs can come grinding to a halt. Think we've the easier run in.

[Adrock]

Manquillo is a 2 year loan. Illori is doing ok at a team who aren't too bad this season.

The most frustrating thing is trying to shoehorn players into positions they clearly do not suit.

Can was the big young central midfield prospect around Europe and the club have stuck him in defence all season

[gospvg]

We are currently 7 points behind City & 8 behind Utd with a game in hand.

We have four away games & two home games. I'm assuming we win the two home games against QPR/Palace, the four away games are West Brom, Hull (who will be fighting for survival), Chelsea & Stoke. I think we are only going to get 6 or maybe 7 points from those games which will leave us on 69 or 70 points.

United have two home games (West Brom/Arsenal) & three away games to Everton, Palace & Hull.

I can see them getting 8 or 9 points which will leave them on 73/74 points.

City have three home games against Villa, QPR & Southampton & two away games to Spurs/Swansea. I can see them getting 10+ points to leapfrog Utd to 3rd with 74/75/76 points.

It all adds up to an exciting end to the season & I would love for us to finish in the top four but our poor start to the season losing to Villa at home, West Ham away, QPR away, Newcastle away, draws at home to Sunderland, Arsenal, Hull & Everton. If we could have got 10 points from those games we would be sitting pretty in the top four.

[gospvg]

Manquillo is a 2 year loan. Illori is doing ok at a team who aren't too bad this season.

The most frustrating thing is trying to shoehorn players into positions they clearly do not suit.

Can was the big young central midfield prospect around Europe and the club have stuck him in defence all season

He has had not much choice in that thanks to the poor form of Lovren & injuries to other players throughout the season.

We clearly need to have a bigger squad, hopefully some of the prospects from this year will get better next season & some more additions in the summer to strengthen the defence & striker options.

[ryodi]

I see Salah tearing up Serie A with Fiorentina and wonder what might have been if we'd signed him instead of Chelsea where he never got a game.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Big error in the transfer market is not going out there and splashing a large chunk of the Suarez cash on a top striker, a Higuian or Cavani. I feared at the time that the club was going to rely on Sturridge being fit for a full season which was never going to happen and when he got injured we panic bought Balo.

The difference between this season and last is the lack of Suarez and Sturridge. We really need to rectify that in the summer.

[JamesTW]

A year ago today was that 3-2 win at Norwich, few kicks in the balls since then

Chelsea game

Palace game

Suarez going/Balotelli signing

The Champions League campaign

Losing 2 Semi Finals

Phil Jagielka

Losing to Mancs twice

Besiktas Penalties

Here's to a better 12 months

[The Fox]

How much was Can? He's been decent enough from what I've seen. Touch seems to let him down a bit though.

5th is par to be fair, though obviously frustrating after last season. Especially with two semi-final defeats added in.

[ryodi]

He was £9.75m and actually had a clause in his contract to allow Bayern first refusal to buy him back, it's only because he was sold abroad that clause was invalid. I think he prefers a defensive midfielder role to center back, it's just because our defense was so bad at the start of the season he's had to fill in and proved himself a step above everyone else apart from Skrtel.

[Gabe]

Balotelli. I'd love to have seen him given a chance but doesn't look like it'll happen. Fuck knows what went on with his purchase. But come on guys, things were going pretty well until the United game and without the red card we could have easily got a draw out of that. Then the situation would be entirely different. As it is we've still got a chance for top four. That's an improvement for us over most of the last few years. And whoever the manager it's always going to be harder to persuade players to move to Liverpool over London.

We'd not played great in the run-up to the Man U game (although at least getting results), so the humpings from United and Arsenal weren't inconsistent with our form. As for Balotelli, I think most of us in here have willed him to do well, but Rodgers just never wanted to stick him with a partner up front. The very few times he did, he did alright.

At the end of the August transfer window I said I was disappointed that we hadn't brought some experience into the team (in fact I think I said that was my one wish for the summer at the end of last season), and that's definitely been a problem, along with injuries of course. But the transfer policy is at best iffy, at worst terrible. Looking at that list I'd forgotten Luis Alberto was still even on our books!

Rodgers needs to address this, and have to get us out the blocks quicker than we managed this season.

I've said this before, but Rodgers has broken his own record for worst starts in 40+ years, 2 out of 3 isn't great form.

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.

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With all that said, talk of his future - whilst understandable - is a bit premature. At least get to the end of the season - perhaps another season without any European football would persuade the owners to make a decision, otherwise I fully expect Rodgers to be there next season.

[angel]

i still think hes a championship manager who got lucky with suarez, hes taken you as far as he can now.

[Naysonymous]

Genuinely curious, but how much say does Rodgers get in Liverpool's transfer dealings? Comolli was director of football until Rodgers had one season under his belt and haven't the Fenway group stated that Liverpool FC now have a transfer committee? If that is the case then I'm sure the first team coach, Rodgers or whoever else it might be gets to say what their philosophy is and where they feel the squad needs to be strengthened and maybe even throw some names into the conversation but is autonomy over transfers even in the remit of Brendan Rodgers? If not, can he be slaughtered for the players Liverpool have signed during his tenure?

[Oh Danny Boy]

It is all the committee, which Rodgers is part of but how much power he has over transfers is debatable. He clearly never wanted Balo and was saying after last season that he wanted more experience in the squad but never got it. Its daft to lay the blame at Rodgers.

i still think hes a championship manager who got lucky with suarez, hes taken you as far as he can now.

[Shevchenko]

I agree about how you couldn't replace Suarez like for like or how tough it is to find a world class striker. But even the likes of Bony, Benteke and Remy would have been a big improvement on what you signed in the summer. I think Sturridge plays better, when someone is up front alongside him.

Remy would have suited your system. Bony and Benteke would have given you a presence up front and create space for the other players around them. Both are decent on the ball too.

Balotelli doesn't seem to do anything. I think the alarm bells should have been ringing when Milan were begging clubs to take him.

I think the owners need to look at the transfer committee because you were heavily linked with both Bony and Remy. Why did whoever choose to opt for Lambert and Balotelli?

[dogsout]

In a rush so can't formulate a proper response. Condensed version:

- Rodgers is part of the committee and is on record as saying that he essentially has the 'final say' on every deal.
- Comolli was sacked before Rodgers was signed; not a year later.

- The committee was brought in after Rodgers' first season (after we overspent on Allen and Borini, etc.).

- Remy failed a medical before we signed Balotelli.

- There definitely is an element of poor fortune in terms of the committee identifying and failing to sign players that have subsequently gone on to do very well at other clubs. This can be put down to the relative lack of financial muscle in the market. Still, my main issue is that I believe we've signed talented players that are under-performing.

- Where's the 'death by football' philosophy? I see little evidence of any long-term plan. Just a guy that changes things over, and over, and over again until they work for a while. Then once they're no longer working he changes them again, and again, and again. Even to the point where he's trying things he's already tried multiple times. Again.

Man, I sound so down on Rodgers. I guess I am. I'm still not calling for his head. I think he deserves another shot at it next season. But I also don't think we should be throwing out loads of players and spending out again, either.

[glb]

Genuinely curious, but how much say does Rodgers get in Liverpool's transfer dealings? Comolli was director of football until Rodgers had one season under his belt and haven't the Fenway group stated that Liverpool FC now have a transfer committee? If that is the case then I'm sure the first team coach, Rodgers or whoever else it might be gets to say what their philosophy is and where they feel the squad needs to be strengthened and maybe even throw some names into the conversation but is autonomy over transfers even in the remit of Brendan Rodgers? If not, can he be slaughtered for the players Liverpool have signed during his tenure?

The committee in action:

It's frustrating Remy failed a medical with us yet has recently stepped up to keep Chelsea's title charge on track, more so when compared with Mario's lack of input due to not feeling fit enough to travel to games. Obviously no one can predict when a player will get injured and the medical must have picked up something alarming, but feels like if something could have gone tits up this season, it did.

I'd still like Rodgers to get another year, but do wonder if Klopp is being looked at. Recall a Jonathan Wilson blog post in the Guardian about Bela Guttman's three year rule:

"The third year," the great Hungarian coach Bela Guttmana always said, "is fatal." If a manager stays at a club more than that, he said, his players tend to become bored and/or complacent and opponents start to work out counter-strategies.

I think it's an interesting point to consider, alongside whether a season of regression, which we've experienced, doom a manager's long-term prospects? Does a sense of mistrust about whether the boss is the right man for the club develop in the dressing room? Supporters tend to be more loyal, but players, with short careers and rarely any real emotional attachment to a club, are they more prone to being more demanding or fatalistic when it comes to a manager, particularly after a relatively poor season, and can the situation be reversed?

[Doomguy]

Bit out of the loop.

Last rumour I heard was the Klopp one. Is that still a possibility or no chance?

Personally think they've had a steadying hand for the last few years with Rodgers (hodgson put liverpool back a good 5 years in terms of progress) but are at the point now (back near the top four) where they need someone with more knowledge/ ambition.

[gospvg]

BR probably deserves another season but if Klopp is interested in LFC do we change manager or stick with BR?

Good to see Hendo is close to signing a new contract.

[Oh Danny Boy]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Klopp just had an awful season with Dortmund. Any evidence that he is better? Rodgers deserves one more season at least.

[The Fox]

He won back to back league titles in a league containing a much richer opponent. That's some pretty tangible evidence right there.

Edit: that said, Liverpool coming second last season is probably just as big an overachievement, given that you're the 5th richest club in this league

[Adrock]

Henderson worth £100,000 a week? Madness.

[Oh Danny Boy]

In a world where we pay that much for Joe Cole then yeah.

He's one of our best players and will most likely be captain for at least the next couple of seasons so he's going to expect to be among the top earners at the club. I say he's worth £100k a week more than Sterling is at the current moment in time.

[Azrael]

No disrespect meant to the club but Klopp will get better offers than Liverpool. Man City, Real Madrid and PSG could potentially all be looking for new managers. Napoli too, and Wenger may decide it's time to leave Arsenal.

We'd probably ditch Rodgers, fail to get Klopp and end up with 'Arry. Though at least we'd get Crouchy back in a 'pool shirt.

[Commander Jameson]

If you're into your stats, this might be an interesting watch. Skip to 20:30 for some info about Liverpool's last few seasons.

[gospvg]

Hopefully LFC used the Sterling facts when negotiating his new contract.