Liverpool Football Club Thread

[Oh Danny Boy]

We are in a real slump, I don't know how we are going to escape from it. Markovic is having a tough start, I don't think it helps that he's been thrown in. He could have done with being slowly eased into the team. Mignolet's form has dropped and Skrtel isn't good enough for where we want to be. I never wanted Ibe or Wisdom to go out on loan and I think they would have been useful for us at the current moment.

Already there are some morons slating Rodgers as a manager, complete bollocks of course but this is when we'll see how good he really is.

[larrydavidsanger]

No leaders on that pitch tonight, nobody trying to make anything happen, nobody giving the team a kick up the arse to waken them up and I don't just mean Gerrard, there's no one who looks interested. We've been so pedestrian when behind this season, it's like all belief is sucked out of them as soon as we concede.

Sterling is dead on his feet, he needs time off to recharge his batteries or he's going to get injured. Balotelli was crumpling under every challenge and when he had the ball, he didn't want to pass it to anyone else and would just run into blind alleys. When he didn't have the ball, he didn't do much of anything. Lallana comes on and barely gets a touch, we seemed to nearly be bypassing our attacking midfield in that second half and when the ball went up top nothing stuck.

The fucking goal was just so typical it's not even shocking any more, it's just expected.

[Chewylegs]

I feel so frustrated watching that, not felt that about a Liverpool game for ages.

Two things, and neither have any baring on the result, but the ref was shocking. He let niggly, persistent fouling go on and on, but only booked players who did one off challenges. He also added on just 3 mins of injury time when the Basel player was injured (about 80mins) for nearly 5 mins alone! To show how toothless we are though, we couldn't even managed a shot in that injury time when we were in and around their area.

Secondly, we really look woeful in defence, seriously bad. Not so much at the centre back area, just in our positioning. We seem to be chasing the ball game after game, looking like a load of kids in the playground. A better team would have hit us for 6.

Lastly (yeah I know, I said two things_, why is Lambert only ever brought on after 80mins? Usually he gets 5 minutes, today he was lucky, he got 10. Immediately we then go to long ball hoofing, I don't remember Southampton doing that when he was playing for them.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

[larrydavidsanger]

Yeah, I'd like to see Lambert start at the weekend if we're playing two up front with Sturridge. Balotelli just doesn't offer enough at the moment, he needs to stop sulking and put his head down. Lallana and Lambert had a great understanding at Southampton, play them both at the weekend.

[Adrock]

Balotelli just isn't good enough, he has no interest in playing for the team and prefer to spend most of his time pouting and posing. Its almost like he is more concerned about cultivating his brooding persona rather than actually getting his head down and playing football.

[Gabe]

Well that's another disappointing game. The goal was another bit of shonky defending and we struggled again to create any really good chances and from the couple we did, Sterling completely fluffed them. He looks tired already.

Whilst I accept that it is mainly frustration making me say this, I haven't felt this despondent about our general performances - and defence in particular - for a very long time (and I mean pre-Hodgson here). Nothing is working at the moment - 4 clean sheets in our last 20 competitive games (in all competitions) is absolutely terrible and even with Sturridge back it's hard to see how we'll break teams down.

I suppose at least Lallana looked relatively bright again when he came on.

[Chewylegs]

I do think Markovic looked better tonight, just his final ball was poor....but then so was Coutinho's, Sterling's and pretty much everyone elses. Hendo had a stinker of a game too. Rodgers needs to be big enough to take Sterling off, he looked knackered as others said, which meant his passing and control was terrible at times.

I'm really not sure our formation is doing any favours to the defence.

[Gabe]

We are in a real slump, I don't know how we are going to escape from it. Markovic is having a tough start, I don't think it helps that he's been thrown in. He could have done with being slowly eased into the team. Mignolet's form has dropped and Skrtel isn't good enough for where we want to be. I never wanted Ibe or Wisdom to go out on loan and I think they would have been useful for us at the current moment.

Already there are some morons already slating Rodgers as a manager, complete bollocks of course but this is when we'll see how good he really is.

I was continually going on about this throughout the Summer and people - whilst not shouting me down (it's all rather pleasant in here) - politely disagreed. In fact, I've said that ever since he got injured (concussed, I think it was?) about 3 years ago, he never looked the same player. As for Mignolet, I'm not sure it's a case that his form has dropped, since we got him he's always been a bit error-prone and has never commanded his area, though I think that's partly because the defenders in front of him never give him any confidence.

I think at the moment we're trying to play a formation that worked so well last year, but without the right players now to pull it off.

Even ignoring the massive loss of Suarez, of those we do still have Phil is in a terrible rut right now and even if he weren't, both he and Lallana work better playing behind the front 2 (as does Sterling to a degree) so one either doesn't play or will have to go out wide and be less effective. Up front, Balotelli just doesn't give you that movement or working of the channels you need to allow the midfield to push up and Lambert doesn't solve that and I don't think Borini will be good enough. I don't think Sturridge coming back solves this completely either, as it still means that one of Lallana or Sterling or Phil will have to play out wide (I'm assuming Markovic will get a run in the team, for a little bit at least).

And where does Allen fit when he comes back? When does Can get to play, other than when Gerrard is rested?

Defensively we're a mess. Enrique is probably our strongest full-back defensively (Flanno certainly has the potential); the rest are all better going forward. Skrtel isn't good enough, Sakho seems to have fallen down the pecking order and Lovren I'm still undecided on, but he certainly isn't a defensive leader like Hyypia/Carragher has been in the past and that means we don't really have any of the defence or keeper marshalling or cajoling/encouraging/organising the rest.

This is certainly a test of Rodgers' management and I obviously hope he hits a formula that works again and soon (and as I've said before, I don't expect the heights of last season by any stretch) because whereas last season we were great going forward but a bit rubbish at the back, this season we're just a bit rubbish all over.

At least the next opportunity to start putting it right isn't too far away.

[Azrael]

Shite and predictable.

Created some good chances but couldn't finish any. Concede from a set-piece and crappy defending.

Sterling and Mario should both have been subbed off during the second half.

[Chewylegs]

I was continually going on about this throughout the Summer and people - whilst not shouting me down (it's all rather pleasant in here) - politely disagreed.

I think a fair few of us have been saying that for a long timr to be fair, me included. The problem is though, where I thought I'd have the confidence to say Sakho, Lovren would have been a better choice, at the moment I don't. All three have made mistakes, although I do think it's the formation that exposes them more.

I agree with you about Mignolet though, he just doesn't seem good enough. I also agree that we are trying to play a formation and tactically the way we played last season but with the wrong players. With no Suarez, Sturridge is a gigantic miss for us and our lack of a cutting edge shows that. Sterling needs a rest, he should sit out the West Bromwich game and Coutinho brought in. Phil needs game time and against Everton he looked good. I'd even think of having Borini up with Mario to offer a bit of mobility too, something needs to change as it's not working and Brendan can't just bury his head and keep changing the date at the top of the team sheet.

[Guest]

How is Agger getting on at the moment.

[Chewylegs]

Apparently Rodgers has said Hodgson has told him Sturridge won't be selected. We'll see.

[Gabe]

How is Agger getting on at the moment.

Wether in jest or not, it's irrelevant either way as he's another left-peg and Rodgers doesn't want to play 2 together at CB.

[Commander Jameson]

Didn't Agger go to Brondby in the summer?

[Gabe]

Yeah, I'm guessing Dinobot's point was along the lines of "Why did we let him go"

[V3zna]

You are all being far too soft. Rodgers has torn up his own blueprint and the players are falling out with each other on the pitch. It was undeniable Coutinho could be seen remonstrating with Balotelli. Super Mario up front on his own has been a disaster (although he looked fine partnered by Sturridge). His heat map from last night just summed everything up. He gives the players behind him nothing to play into. A 4231 is rubbish and doesn't match our strengths (although this could be down to Allen and Can being missing). Henderson is neutered sitting so far back. Sterling is wasted stuck away out on the left (it's clear he's a central player, attacking mid or just simply a forward). Coutinho was at his best last season as part of a midfield 3, not as a '10'.

The work rate has gone, the pressing, the hi-tempo, everything that made us formidable beyond Suarez. It's all gone.

First and foremost (if for example Sturridge didn't make the WBA game) get Balotelli out of the team. Stop playing the ridiculous 4231. Play a 433 with the wider 2 closer to the forward (Lambert). Get Sterling off the wing. Get Lallana into the team. If Markovic has to play, play him left, where he looked really good with Moreno behind him (City game).

The solutions are obvious and why Rodgers perseveres with what doesn't work is baffling. The solution to the defensive and goalkeeping issues is not forthcoming unless Valdes really does come straight in. Still, if we can correct other aspects of our game then that's a start. We are lucky that we have reached an International break right now.

[dogsout]

I agree with Vezna. You guys saying we're trying to play the same formation as last year are wrong; we've predominantly played 4-2-3-1 this season. The strange thing is, this is exactly how we started last season (he experimented with 4-2-3-1 before settling into 4-3-3 and 3-5-2, which was subsequently replaced by the 4-4-2 diamond). The thing that really baffles me is that he's trying it again when he himself said it won't work while we can't field a '2' with the required energy. He resolved this last time by flipping the shape to a '1-2', affording Gerrard the protection of two more energetic players, and essentially resigning him to playing in his own half. We have no control in midfield right now, and a big part of why we look so toothless is a simple numbers game - we've gone from having 7 players with attacking roles to take up in the opposition's half, to only having 6, 4-5 of which have generally been taken up by new signings. On top of that, the lack of mobility in midfield has meant the supporting players are often scrambling back when we lose the ball, which is happening routinely at the moment. As long as Gerrard is in the team, 4-2-3-1 shouldn't be an option, IMO.

Sterling looks as if he's completely forgotten how to play on the wing, which is obviously a worry.

[Chewylegs]

Two of the most sensible posts in a while, maybe I just don't understand what formation we are playing half the time!

[Chewylegs]

Henderson is neutered sitting so far back.

The work rate has gone, the pressing, the hi-tempo, everything that made us formidable beyond Suarez.

Two really good points. Henderson just doesn't look like the same player in the last few games and we really were formidable last year and just pedestrian this year.

[dogsout]

The frustrating thing is I think one of the reasons he's switched to 4-2-3-1 is to make us more compact and solid. One of the costs of which is obviously we lose the intense pressing. We've still seen it in fits and spurts but Henderson simply cannot do it from his position without destroying the shape.

[V3zna]

Even with the injuries / form issues I can see how we could get an 11 out there that could at least relentlessly press. Players like a central Lambert, Borini playing from the right and Coutinho playing as an actual midfielder, would at least give us more energy on the pitch. Yes, one is slow, another unwanted and the other one badly out of form but they will all give us a bit more tempo on the pitch. The team needs a shake up now otherwise West Brom will get something on Saturday.

[Gabe]

Two really good points. Henderson just doesn't look like the same player in the last few games and we really were formidable last year and just pedestrian this year.

Ahem!

...I think Henderson is playing a bit deeper so we're losing a bit of his attacking thrust. I trust that these things will be sorted in time, I just hope we remain competitive in the meantime.

Marco, in your 433, who is in your midfield 3?

[V3zna]

Marco, in your 433, who is in your midfield 3?

For Saturday? Gerrard furthest back with Henderson right, Coutinho left.

Any other time, a rotation between Gerrard, Henderson, Coutinho, Allen and Can. Rossiter is likely to come into consideration sooner rather than later as well (next season?).

The formation is key. Pack the middle of the park to press the opposition. All width comes from Moreno and Manquillo. The two up front off the striker play narrow.

[Chewylegs]

To be fair, that makes sense as both Manquillo and Moreno offer a ridiculous amount of width going forward.

[Gabe]

Who would you have as the front 3?

[V3zna]

Who would you have as the front 3?

For tomorrow - Lambert with Lallana and Sterling off him. Tucked in as attackers, definitely not 'wingers'.

[hmm]

Who would you have as the front 3?

Suarez plus 19 year old incarnations of Robbie Fowler and original Ronaldo.

I don't know why BR is messing around with things when the solution is so simple.

[V3zna]

I don't know why BR is messing around with things when the solution is so simple.

Abandoning everything that worked so well from last season is bizarre. He's going to get himself into real trouble if he doesn't sort himself out. For what it's worth I definitely think he'll get it right. He's making all the right noises about Balotelli anyway.

[hmm]

My second paragraph related to the first; neither were entirely serious

I do agree though that, while the loss of Suarez was always going to be an issue, we are making things worse for ourselves by no longer doing some of the other things that served us so well before. It certainly wasn't that much down to Suarez that we spent so much of last season terrorising teams and often scoring a goal or two before they'd even realised the game had started; that was our general setup and aggressiveness.

At the moment we've got an all too accurate reproduction of last season's defence but a very pale imitation of our play elsewhere on the pitch.

[Jamin]

I really hope Lambert gets a chance to start against West Brom. Balo has hardly set the team on fire, and poor Rickie's 5 minute cameo show (he got 10 mins against Basle - things are looking up!) is as depressing as it is pointless. Ideally I'd like to see them start together as Sturridge is still out. We really should be playing 2 up top at home against this kind of opposition, regardless of injuries.